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Hobbit Warrior on December 20, 2004Gregg: It's amazing how two completely opposite viewers can feel the same thing. I understand the problems with discrimination against you sexuality, and I understand that that is why you speak up so much (which I admire you for). But the main reason I replied to your original comment was because I (once again) felt that Christianity is getting a bad rap, one that it alone does not deserve. THIS is my main agrument and it may not be yours, but just a little comment can affect so much. I do believe that the treatment homosexuals are getting is grossly unfair, but I also believe it is not due to Christianity alone. Maybe I misinterpret you, but that sounds like what you were getting at. I just wanted some recognition that it is not the only religion which...I guess you can say it bans homosexuality (depending on biblical interpretations of course). And yes, many times the majority rules, but remember we also live in a time where 80 some percent of my country believes in God, and yet if I want to pray over my school lunch, I have to hide it because what I do with my food might be offensive to other students. Discrimination is very real, and felt by everybody at some point in time. Not only minorities. And it does not come from one source alone. Though that would make it much simpler.
Much too late to make a long subject short, but I believe I know better what you were getting at, things are a bit clearer now. I just wanted to know if you also felt Christianity alone is responsible for the discrimination against other sexualities, and since it doesn't sound like you do (by your second sentence at least), I'm done. For real lol.
Which means LostInThought can have his auhtor page back now lol.
Amanda -
lordoftherings on December 15, 2004Amanda: Again I feel like I am having another fruitless conversation because all the IMs are stating that my main argument in this issue is Christianity, which it is not. I only speak of Christianity, and also Catholicism because they are the religions I have experienced in my life and feel that I can relate with in my arguments. But my main argument in this issue is that the majority of society (heterosexuality) took it upon themselves to be the ones in power to set up institutions: medical, religion, governmental, and scientific in order to remain in control. The empowerment of the heterosexual as a collective gave them the control to set up these institutions in order to set up class systems within a society. Not one these issues was addressed at any of your replies yet, but to take out certain secondary arguments and make them my primary ones unbalances what I have written. It is why I do not speak of these issues very often on the internet because we cannot face on another to present our arguments, but can hide behind and then quote passages taken out of context of the true basis to the thesis that was written. The argument that I am presenting is why would homosexuals want to even think of uniting into an institution that is hypocritical to begin with. Until these heterosexual controlled institutions recognizes us as equal on the human scale then this hypocrisy will always be present in the majority of society since they are the ones who control it. Unfortunately, the Church is at fault for getting involved in the issues to begin with by being created by a heterosexual society and passing laws by the government for the state in the name of religion. Gregg
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Hobbit Warrior on December 15, 2004Gregg: I'm not trying to tell you what to think, I'm just so tired of the easy judgements people can pass against Christians. Christianity is not the only religion generally outlawing homosexuality (see: Judaism and Islam, and Christianity is the only one preaching forgiveness). And not all Christians are anti-gay, I have nothing against homosexuality myself. And yes, I do believe in the Christian way, and I do believe the Bible is God's word, because there is just as much proof into that as there is into the theory you pose here. It's not really something I like to force, but it hurts to hear so much to hear my entire relgion so easily trashed, like it's all one thing, like everyone's that way. And i know it will always be an issue, becuase being Christian isn't "cool", it isn't "unique" and those are two things our society seems to treasure above all others.
Boy, I hope that somewhat made sense. Like I said, whether a person is bi, gay, or perfectly straight, I really don't care. Their choice. The only reason I posted this was to argue that fact that Christianity is being singled out, once again, as a "bad guy". And I don't necessarily think it is.
Sorry LostInThought, if you didn't really want to hear this lol.
Amanda -
lordoftherings on December 14, 2004Amanda: Amanda: The nonwithstanding clause that is written in our constitution protects the state from entering our private lives with new laws that have already been passed in order to protect us. That is what Alberta is trying to do with the new verdict by the Supreme Court of Canada that came down two days ago. This is a very complicated matter, reserved for lawyers and lawmakers. In reality, I am not coming down on heterosexuals as individuals, but as a collective. The Church was born out of Christianity in Rome to rid the Romans and Greeks of their beliefs and deities of Zeus and Apollo et al and instead of having many Gods to perform rituals, Christianity brought in the ideology of one God for multi purpose tasks, thus eliminating the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman and Greek way of life. With this new Christianity, the Church was developed and at the head of the Church was a collective heterosexual following dictating what was deemed right and proper in 'their eyes' and laws were made, the Bible was supposedly had been written on the word of God, which in reality was the word of many apostles and then government was formed to agree with the Church. The SET RULE you write about is the rules that were set up by this collective, thus since the majority of the world was heterosexual, all minorities after that were placed on a scale with bi-sexuality tolerated and homosexuality being on the lower of the scale. Yet, cultures before Christianity set in did not separate these groups of minority, some tolerated them and some incorporated them into their society., what Christianity did was become the Almighty and dictated to the people through the institution of religions, government, scientific and medical communities to help them move forward this thinking. Michael Foucault is a really good example of someone to study. I do not in anyway come down on the individual heterosexual here, but come down as a collective with how they became superior to think that their sexuality is more 'clean' and more 'moral' than my sexuality. As for the Church, one must have experienced the ostracization and the hypocrisy, especially in the 21st century to know that I would never choose to be married by an institution that does not even see me as a full human being because of the person whom I fall in love with. After all, isn't that the basis and foundation of Christianity to begin with. In such short messages as these, one can not explain oneself explicitly without feeling that enough has not been said and then has opened themselves up to be very vulnerable in different interpretative ways, because we all understand things from our own experiences. As a writer, I try not to offend anyone with anything that I write, carefully choosing it so that I present an argument that is always open for debate. And in being Catholic, because my mother was a divorcee whose husband had died, my step-father had to go to the Archbishop of Canada in order to marry my mother in 1971 and to adopt five kids, another Catholic hypocritical joke. As you can see, my step-father had won his case, he married my mother, raised five adopted children, and celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary this year. This same church threw me out of their establishment when I declared my homosexuality. So much for religion for me, I am at peace with my own cosmic forces and in the belief of the native that Mother Nature and living the land is much better than a man-made institution to control people. Sorry about the rant. gregg
Edited on Dec 14, 1:54 p.m. because ''. -
Hobbit Warrior on December 14, 2004I hope I don't sound horrible saying this, but I kind of wanted to disagree here. There was a lot in the above paragraph about Christian churches being hypocritical in their not letting homosexuals marry, and I wanted to say that I really think they're just following what they believe to be true. Many churches do not believe homosexuality is right, and therefore cannot perform the ceremony. Obviously, having a government write a constitutional ammendment on this is wrong, but that's another matter entirely. Separation of church and state. But really, if you look at it, the Christian church is only following what they believe is a SET RULE. Nothing hypocritical about that right? (unless you look at the problems with some of those Catholic bishops but in reality, those things almost never happen. I don't see why it's given them such a bad rap.)
Once again, hope I don't sound arguementative and bitchy here, but it's just something I wanted to point out, something that rarely gets to be seen in todays world where Christians tend to be the enemy of everything.
Amanda -
lordoftherings on December 14, 2004Chris: Innocense is spelled innocence. As for your message about Lord of the Rings Role Playing, my firends and I started a role playing group two years ago and get together on Saturdays to play for four hours, being a vivid fan of D&D when it came out in the 1980s, about the time I grew into a young adult and video games was just being discovered, PACMAN was still the Number 1 game back then. As for the information about 'gay marriages', I am at an ambivalent turn on this topic. Although I agree that my friends should be allowed to join as a couple, and granted with the recent Supreme Court verdict this year in Canada that pretty much sums up Peierre Elliot Trudeau,s speech of 1969 to Canadians, 'the government has no business in the bedrooms of its citizens', I am apt to vote for civil union than marriages performed by churches. There are a few personal reasons for this but the main one is that for centuries Christianity has persecuted homosexuals and ostracized them from churches and placed them at the lower demonitor on the humankind scale. This hyprocrisy angers me, that now the Court has allwed, if the Church agrees, to perform this ceremonies. My question to all my friends in this argument, is why would you turn to an institution that was created by the majority of mankind (heterosexuals) to suppress (homosexuals) and ask them to perform a ceremony that is personal for the two people involved while the person performing the ceremony might not say what is on his mind. In other words, I think that the government, the institution of religion, and the medical field are a bunch of assholes who think that because heteroseuxality is the majority of the population that they think that they can still supress us by passing laws that are unconstitutional and infringe on our rights as human living in the same world. I do beleive that if two people are in love that because of laws in Canada, a piece of paper from a religious institution isn't going to change much since we have our Charter of Freedom and Human Rights that has now been amended numerous times since P E Trudeau made his famous speech, and with the nonwithstanding clause now invoked into this constitution, gays and lesbians in Canada are more than protected in many areas much like their hetersoexual compatriots. My solution is the Civil Union approach where the couple is recognized as married and recieves all the benefits as their heterosexual friends without having to go to a hyprocritical institution for this recognition. And let's face it, as long as heterosexuals are the ones making the laws and running these institutions, there will always be supression lying someone in the rules and benefits, it's the power trip of the male dominance in our race. But I will pull up some links later this week and post them to you for your information. I wish you and your friends great success in this fight agaisnt the Bush administration, but will inform you that it is a long battle. Micheal Hendricks and René Lavoi, the first married gay couple in Quebec are personal friends of mine and I have watched them in this battle for the past twenty years, consuming their income up and living in mere poverty just to have society seen that they are a couple in love, a gay couple in love, for the past thirty-five years. I will IM you more as this progresses and thank you for stopping by and reading my home page. Gregg
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Sephielya J. Maxwell on November 23, 2004That sucks about not having a job. Me either though... but that'd due to that horrible accident I had on Labor day, did you hear? My Tracker rolled over five times, and I was in the hospital for a week with a fractured skull and a bruised brain. Now my head really IS broken! The only marks I have from the accident is red spots on my hand, back, and a scar on my eyelid where it was ripped. Pretty, huh? o.0 Sucks you don't have a phone either! I seem to be one of the only people I know right now that does >< I dyed my hair black... Hmm, not much else, cept I'm in the same boat as you pretty much. *Sigh* And let's not go into the love depo, ne? Not to good there either, oi.
~Crys -
Sephielya J. Maxwell on November 23, 2004You're poem on my page frightened me lol I miss you! When are yougoing to come down and have some fun with us at AtoZ again? If I had money I'd give it to you ;_;
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Sephielya J. Maxwell on June 4, 2004Where have you been, Pickle-san? o.o You never came over, and no I will not believe that you fell asleep in the field again! Even you cannot sleep that long!
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