My nose has turned Northern
thanks to the snow. I hardly speak
with an accent at all
though my e's are lazy
still.
I even cut
your last name away from me
in 2003, bored it
in the ground quick
as a sunk stone in the mud-
it was May
and the waters were high.
What's that?
You bought a new house?
You talked to my sister
just last month, you say?
You're still decisively
two kinds of father?
No, I'd rather leave it alone,
sick and jaundiced as winter,
and be the unfaithful child.
I would rather
write a poem about it
conceive in myself
the power of the word
by which you are not
the bedfellow of fatherhood
and I am not forgiving you
yet.
I would like to be angry,
denounce you publicly
by mouth, maybe
allow my compassion
to run naked to the lie
like its lover.
Author notes
Jesus this sucks. I think I'm getting worse with every poem.
In a list
A contest entry
- superficial onions by notorious.
912 points, ended January 11, 12 entries
Honorable winner
• next poem in this contest, remove from contest
Critique the hell out of it if you are so inclined
Comments
1 - 32 of 32
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Very well done on this.
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If this sucks then I am giving up writing lol for such a personal point of view to be this raw can only be damn good, for the reader and for the soul
C
p.s..keep sucking then lol
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Sounds like maye the phoneecall didnt turn out as well as expected.
Enjoyed your write.
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The hurt and anger here are manifested by the way you gently state all the reasons your father is "two kinds of father." All is said between the lines, even as is true in life . . . what isn't said is so much more important than what is said.
Like water, your feelings take the shape of the vessel you write . . . you show us the inside from the outside. Excellent.
Personally, I would not revise this too much. It is as it should be, simple and clear and immediate. Sometimes, rewrites are attempts to justify what has come before and this needs no justification.
Well done.
Garrison
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This is a fantastic poem you have written.
The anger and emotion is deep and flows over.
I really enjoyed the images you brought forth.
Thanks for sharing your poetic talent.
Tony
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You people are just crazy, I swear!
I really loved this. I haven't spoken to mine in about three years, so I could relate immensely. Raw and beautiful.
Jeanette*~
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No one should change their poem to appease others but the point of asking for criticism, as I am sure you know, is to have others draw our attention to ways of seeing our work that we perhaps miss. There are more ways to read a poem other than the author's, ea made some valuable observations but if we only relied on intuition then our poems would be all the poorer. I still question the line 'You're still decisively
two kinds of father? ' Why would he say that to you? I simply do not see that indication that ea write of, but if that is the case then the lack of clarity is my problem. Anyway, I just felt I had to comment further. -
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To me it indicates very precisely that he said, "I'm still two kinds of father," and she repeated that in the phone call, perhaps a tad ironically, "You're still two kinds of father?" Perhaps your command of English is not as strong as that of a native speaker's, as you stated you have only been using English as your adopted language for seven years. I think my intuition is right on.
If Nicole welcomes your critiques, then all is well, but since you cannot grasp my statement, I thought I ought to clarify things. -
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Dear ea, i am somewhat surprised by your hostility, where does that come from? What have I said to you that you should think I am at war with you. That is bizarre. I appreciate that you cleared up that sentence.
Why did I add you as a friend? Well, as I just joined I added anyone whose work had some quality to it. I am still finding my way around this site so that seemed the easiest way to keep in touch. If it bothers you then I shall remove you, it is no problem.
I don't think that you read my work very carefully. My adopted country is Croatia, English is my native tongue, and no one speaks Serbo-Croatian. They are two separate languages.
I am sorry if I offended you in any way but I don't think I deserve such an attack. Regards
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I agree with you. Though I appreciate that ea sees where I'm going, the fact that others don't suggests a problem with the poem, not with the reader. I'm a firm believer that if ideas are not clearly put forth for a majority of the readers, then the piece needs to be modified. I imagine there's a few who can read between the lines (ie, what I neglected or was too lazy to include in the poem) but most of those readers are those who have read me for a while, and understand my voice. My goal is always to be clear to NEW readers, while still maintaining my voice for the long time readers (and, as always, myself as well). Thank you for the comment again. I love constructive feedback!
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You should trust your own instincts more and rely less upon advice, (I say, advising you
) but I understand perfectly the northern nose - it is an intuitive thing and you can not expect every reader to pick up on it. I also like the bore though maybe bored it, as in drilled it in, though the bore, as in carried it in also works. of course you're putting a question mark after father because, it indicates he said that to you. The anger in the fourth stanza is powerful enough and assertive enough for this reader; what the "it" is perfectly clear to me - the relationship. You don't pick at a scab if you want it to heal. I also like that you do in fact denounce him publicly
by poem.
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I'm glad you understood what I was hoping for with all those questionable parts people are having trouble with. You definitely know where I was going with it. I'm sure it still needs to be cleaned up a bit. Editing never hurts. lol. But I certainly wont be changing the integrity of the piece to appease others. Perhaps I'll just make it a little more "readable", if you catch my drift. Thanks for the great and supportive comment! I appreciate it a lot.
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Fathers provide us with such a vast range of inspiration! I must say I like most of what I read, I like the loose structure and variety of stanza length. I can really identify with the idea of your accent changing, or adopting the lilt of the local dialect of the place one moves to. The word Northern troubles me a bit. It sounds like an adjective wanting to attach itself to your nose, so I ask myself what is a Northern nose?
I understand what you wish to say with these lines, "bore it in the ground quick as a sunk stone in the mud" but it does seem to mix the images well, to bore - to drill does not seem to go with a stone stuck in mud. The third stanza, where you are addressing your father directly in the phone call is good. We only hear your side of the conversation, as if we are sitting in the next room, but can feel a whole range of emotions coming from you, and from that make all kinds of assumptions.
"You're still decisively two kinds of father?" I wonder whether this would be better as a statement rather than a question. "I'd rather leave it alone", what is the 'it' here and how does it follow from the previous sentence? "I would like to be angry" this suggests that you cannot quite bring yourself to be angry to him personally. I like this line and you clearly have a sense of compassion but to "allow my compassion to run naked to the lie like its lover." sounds rather confused, mixing abstract with the concrete. Are you saying that the lie has a lover and that is compassion? I feel that there are seeds of a good poem here and with some careful nurturing it could bear fruit. Hope this was not too critical, you did ask though. Good luck
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There's no such thing as "too critical" in my book. You make many good points in your critique. Though I like the last stanza, there's nothing tying it in to the previous, so I understand it reads confuddled. This poem was a struggle, and only came to me in parts, so putting it together seems convoluted at times. Thanks for the fantastic comment. It's appreciated.
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i aint spoken to mine for over 30 years
this said many things i wished i had the skill to say so eloquently
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on the critical side i think you COULD have brought more FIRE to this piece.on a personnal note, since my sperm doner left with moms best friend when i was 4 i can relate to this in a big way. your not getting worse, i feel your just holding back just a little. let it go hon, let it go and you may be surprised at the liberation, the inspiration of pain is a powerful thing.
keep it real. << >>
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You hit the nail on the head. I'm trying to "control" the writing way more than I have in the past, and it's coming out emotionally stilted or something. It's actually rather frustrating. Thanks for the comment. I know what you mean.
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Too much talent in one human being...
My dad was 70 when I was 21. 4 kids, 2 step-kids. 6 kinds of father, I guess. He passed away in 1983. We never got along. But ya know what? I still wish he was here, so I could finally give HIM some shit, let him know how it felt. I guess he knows now. Ehhh, forgive him, Sweetie. Not necessarily for his sake - for yours.
I liked the second part of the first stanza especially. The last conversation I had with my dad was when I told him I was gonna get married (but already had); his response was, "Hell, I thought you were smarter than that." What REALLY pisses me off was, he was right, dammit. I just married the wrong man, was all. God, woman, you make me think too deep, too hard. ALL of your poems bring out the shovel, pick & spade in me. I guess that's what the best writers do, isn't it? Hold up a mirror & show us ourselves? I agree with Rob, too - I always thought that living well is the best revenge, no matter who it's aimed at. Let the bastard(s) see just how well you do without 'em around. Drives 'em nuts. 
And, my Friend...every poem is an unfinished one. Which is why mine always end with ellipses...Good luck in the contest. Better luck in resolving this issue so it doesn't pour acid on your heart. Like Mel & Rob (& so many others),
I know from experience that it can & will.
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Actually, the phone call finished well. I'm not gonna have Sunday dinners with the man any time soon, but I don't hate him. Of course, that might be part of the problem. I've held on to resentment for 11 years and now it's just gone and I don't know what to do with myself. lol. Thanks for the lovely comment. You always leave the bestest ones
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I do understand, Sweetie ~ obviously, not from your perspective, but still. After we finish with our version of "hate" (which is right over that fine line from love) comes indifference...which is much, much worse. For you both. To not care at all is...deadening. You get past it. (Which you obviously have, or you wouldn't have spoken to him). My parents divorced (after 22 years) when I was 12. We moved to Okla. shortly thereafter. He moved in with his girlfriend AND took MY dog. (I'm the one who loved & cared for him & he loved me the best - none of the other kids did more than pat him on the head & go on.) I came home one night...I guess I was about 15 then - just before I moved out on my own. My mom was sittin' on the floor, cryin', holdin' the phone to her ear...while he was chewin' her ass out about some bullshit. I told her to hang up. She shook her head. I grabbed the phone away from her & read him the fuckin' riot act. Even told him, "Remember all those times you said I was the milkman's kid? I WISH I WAS. You're not my father." Then I slammed the phone down & helped my momma off the floor & dried her tears. What is was all about, I don't know. Don't care. I knew how fierce he could be. I was scared to death of him most of my childhood. Then, in 1983, I went to see him before he passed away. He'd been 6'2" - he'd shrunken to my height (at the time, 5'8 1/2"). I wondered why I'd ever been frightened by this poor, helpless, dying man. He told me he loved me...maybe for the first time. I don't remember him ever saying it to me before. Then he reminded me of that incident with my mom. He told me how proud he was of me for doing that, for sticking up for her, for giving as good as he gave...& that I earned his respect that day. Weird...but somehow, it was a turning point. Too damned bad it took so many years. I know, if he hadn't been so hard-headed (which is where I got my independence from), we would have had so much more to say to one another. For instance, when I was 14, I told him I'd started writing poetry. Without missing a beat, he turned to my older brother & started talking about the weather. Totally dismissed me. I KNOW he heard me. Maybe he didn't know what to say...but it broke my heart once more, trying to connect with him & failing. Like I told my younger brother (over & over)...Do NOT hold onto grudges from the past. They imprison YOU - no one else. Once you reach 16 or so, take the reigns of your own damned life & make it a good one. Stop yer fuckin' whining. EVERYBODY does the best they can under the circumstances, with what they know & have to give at the time. After all, we don't know how they were raised, either. Anyhooo...see??? Got me diggin' in that damned garden again. Guess I'll be ready, come Spring. You're (always) welcome, Nicole.
P.S. I've never told this story to anyone before. Not even my best friend since I was 18 - or my late beloved that I lived with for 14 years. See whatcha went & done??? Dammmnnn, you're good. Tell Ms. Darcy that YOU should be a therapist, too.
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Although I would have LOVED to see this go further, I must admit, it was still vintage nikki. lol I am applauding ONLY on the condition that this will be a series...kinda like your dear mother rants/memories. But you know what I really think, lord and lady knows I've yelled at you long enough to do this fucking thing already, lol.
Jesus, when oh when will I start charging you for our therapy sessions??? lmao
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As if. Your payment is me putting up with your neurosis.
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You're Polish and you hate everything.
I just wanted to spit that back at you because it was truly priceless.
Anyways, peaches aside,
if I could write something like this and say "Jesus this sucks", I'd be one happy ass of an asshole and probably scratching an itch that didn't exist just for the hell of it.
"My nose has turned Northern
thanks to the snow."
This opening line and the lines that followed in S1 just amused the shit out of me; it felt detached and observant at the same time...not to mention LMAO-worthy (undoubtedly because...I laugh at inappropriate instances).
"It was May
and the waters were high."
I feel like you wanted to say more after this,
but I actually really liked this ditty here.
I don't even know why...mmpht, because it was ultra-poetic?
Yeah, that's why!!
"You're still decisively
two kinds of father?"
Lovelovelovelovelovelovelove.
"sick and jaundiced as winter,
and be the unfaithful child."
'jaundiced' is an amazing word that thankfully, isn't used and abused by half-assed poets. Ugh, and it fits so perfectly there. "unfaithful child" god you know how to make an impact.
"and I am not forgiving you
yet."
I adore the line break for 'yet' and just its word placement in general.
"I would like to be angry,
denounce you publicly
by mouth,"
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shit...I loved that.
;
Jessica
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Awww shucks. You sure do know how to make a girl blush.
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Are we sisters by chance?
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lol Perhaps. I think we've all got a relative we dont talk to at some point in our lives.
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I wrote fuck you poems to my father for years. I fed on forgiveness when I realized that, for me, being happy was the best revenge.
Maybe an expansion of the two faced image would help, a light/dark true/false dictomy or somesuch?
Or some reference about the past, written in bold type, while the edit is transparent?
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I like fuck you poems. Good for the soul or something like that. You're right about the expansion. This is a piece I'll work on some more over the next day or so.... when I'm done crocheting a scarf. Yeah, I do that kind of homemaker shit.
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So far I like everything except the first line, does it make sense without it?
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Yeah, it makes sense. lol. But that was another instance in which there was more I wanted to say that corresponded to that line, but couldn't think of a good way to put it, so I just didn't. lol. But I liked the line so kept it in because I'm hell bent and determined to edit this and make it better.
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I don't think this sucks, but like every poem in the world, I think it could be better. I felt that the first two stanzas were brilliant. I loved the specific examples you described like about your lazy e's. Personally, I'm never a fan of questions in poetry for some reason so I can't say I love the third stanza. Though it does fit in with your title. Maybe you could use dialogue between you and your father chewing the fat over the phone here to give the same result in maybe a better way? I'm just randomly suggesting crap to get away from the questions. I just love how you used actual specific examples in the previous stanzas and I'm yearning to see that pattern throughout the poem. The idea of your dad being two kinds of father is really captivating and maybe that possibly could be fleshed out a little more, though you plainly say you want to leave it alone. I almost feel like the fourth stanza would sound better if it were split. "I would rather write a poem...." feels like a separate idea to me. I really do love the language in the fourth stanza. How you described winter as sick and jaundiced is perfect. The ending kind of throws me off. I just can't understand the bit about your compassion running naked to the lie... but that's probably just my problem. (And please, don't try to explain the meaning behind that part to me. I feel having poems explained ruins their magic.) This was a captivating poem.
-Kevin
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I wont explain it. lol. I agree that explanations ruin it. Truth be told, I knew this was unfinished when I... well... finished it. There should be an extra stanza between the fourth and fifth, but I couldn't think of anything that worked with what I really wanted to say so, for the time being, I'm not saying anything. lol. I'll definitely revist it when I can think through the lack of order in my own thoughts
But I loved your critique, and you were very spot on. The problem areas you pointed out, are my own as well.
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