never expecting
the sun
to find your well
you say snow
soundlessly falls
let me lend you my ears
yesterday
toads backpacking sun
jumped through my swing gate
today
the sunset
under a cow's udder
*
praying
the christ crushes
the shadow in his palms
tea picnic
a child crawls
after its shadow
packing
our coats scallop
with wind
*
horses facing
seahorses on treetops
leisurely plows on
past the garden gate
into the wheat
the wind with a horse
the sun stretches
yellow silk
across the afternoon
*
solstice morning
star
on a black horse
firefish
on firewood
foxes in forest pools
glove a moon
*
lights out
the first bee
falls down our window
robin shadows
from barn to crop to barn
chase robins
*
huddling in our haystack
a snail
without its shell
to our porch swing
the wind comes
in fits and spurs
Comments
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you know ... (me again !) ... the idea of the connecting is good ... look up 'renga' .... this allows those connections but it is a dialogue between two or more people ...
it might help somewhat in formulating a stronger response to each idea - as if you are two people - two different perspectives that kind of thing ...
at the moment i cant see how the connections work - although i do see it loosely, here and there ...
hmmmm wonder if (challenge here) ... the connectors could be where the last line or part of it becomes the first line of the next ... (i might try that some time) ....
so ... to the next lot ..
the sun stretches
yellow silk
across the afternoon
*
solstice morning
star
on a black horse
firefish
on firewood
foxes in forest pools
glove a moon
*
i love that stretching yellow silk bit ... yum yum ... when you get to the site .. you will find half will enjoy the fine line poetic that is 'imagery' and the other half will want a logical image where the sun cannot possibly stretch ... (all good) ... helps you strengthen your own perspective and KNOW for sure the image works ...
(i do love that one)
there is a format of short /long/ short in haiku - that is not an absolute but when you begin to see it in that format you begin to look more closely at the line breaks etc ...
the sun
stretches yellow silk
across the afternoon
the other thing here is its currently a run on sentence ... find the turn ... so you create a phrase and fragment ... yet retain the (fine line poetic) imagery
stretching
silk across the afternoon
midday sun
that kind of thing ...
midday sun
across the afternoon
yellow silk
no spoon feeding ...
although haiku is much more sense based ... (its amazingly difficult for such a short form)
I SO LOOK FORWARD to seeing you on the site, the other comments and advice and what you do with it ...
of course ... be ready for a learning curve .... its angle depends on you ...
xx >>> Gina
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tea picnic
a child crawls
after its shadow
packing
our coats scallop
with wind
beautiful ... both of them ... nice nice (haiku) ...
you probably dont need tea ...
i love scallop with wind ... (the purists will want 'the wind') ... and perhaps packing up ? ...
the sun stretches
yellow silk
across the afternoon
beautiful ... >> Gina -
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Thank you so much, Gina. I apologise a million times for the late response-time---been busy with football and writing the recently posted poem. I've been reading a lot of haiku lately---due to a master haiku class on eratosphere (I think you're familiar with the workshop). Was a wonderful experience, and I could give you the links if you want.
as for your suggestions, their spot on. brings more connectedness
ps: it's wonderful to hear from you, see you step by =) hope all is well -
Thank you so much, Gina. I apologise a million times for the late response-time---been busy with football and writing the recently posted poem. I've been reading a lot of haiku lately---due to a master haiku class on eratosphere (I think you're familiar with the workshop). Was a wonderful experience, and I could give you the links if you want.
as for your suggestions, their spot on. brings more connectedness -
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heheh .. NEVER apologise .. lateness is fine ... better than never ? ... and sheesh to apologise a million times would take me all week to read ! so dont do it !
football ? .. ergh ... but then again a passion or two is important and football be yours - ENJOY ! ... what has turned you to haiku ? ... how intersesting and exciting that a poet such as yourself - you do seem to have a handle on the poetry thang! - is finding haiku ... ooooo nice nice .. i so look forward to seeing where you take the form ..
i am not familiar with eratosphere i dont think ... links, yes please ... -
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Not american football (soccer). Does that help?
http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/
Even poets such as A. E. Stallings are a member there (and now a guest at Distinguished Guest). The link below will lead you to the month when the distinguished guest was the haiku-expert Lee Gurga. He taught a lot about the aesthetics of haiku (if you have the time, read all his responses in this thread: http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/Forum19/HTML/000485.html)
his comment on this page (longest comment, a little below the middle of the page, with mid-centered poems), was particularly illuminating:
http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/Forum19/HTML/000485-8.html
Don't miss the links on page 2, nor Lee's long comment on the middle of the page (to navigate, look for his post in the middle of the page where the first haiku reads: plum blossoms falling; also, look for his comment to Steve C. a little below, which also includes some great teaching about "departing from the commonplace" in haiku-writing.)
The other links are:
http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/Forum19/HTML/000486.html
http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/ubbhtml/Forum19/HTML/000483.html
and the links found on those pages from there, I'd just roam around. (Found a lot of exceptional haikus that way.)
where i take the form? ooh! i don't think i'm quite that good yet.
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oooo .... want to tell me what you are doing here ??? before i comment ... and yet i must comment and wait later for your reply ...
so many wonderful haiku moments here ... ! so many fine line poetic haiku moments ....
fabulous imagery .... i have to take each stanza by stanza thought - for you ... to use or lose, as always ...
firstly .. with the three lines for each stanza and all short ... not quite in haiku format(or intent) but too close to ignore (i some) ...
i am not sure what you are going for here ... so i dont know how to comment -haiku or not ... so i will tackle each by each ...
never expecting
the sun
to find your well
you say snow
soundlessly falls
let me lend you my ears
(these two stanzas hang together for me .. the conversation flows from 1 to the other) ... i love the last line in relation to not hearing the snow fall ... luverly ...
yesterday
toads backpacking sun
jumped through my swing gate
(luverly ... great imagery ... and 'backpacking' is unarguable - it provides both the image and the verb ... i am yet to find /think of the need for 'swing' ... if any
today
the sunset
under a cow's udder
(this, so far, is my favourite - and really started me thinking haiku ! ... do i hear you saying 'eeewwww' .. heh ... .. its not purely haiku coz it doesnt have the juxt .... but gee the imagery and brevity is 90% there) ... i love it ...
i shall return for the rest .... >>> Gina
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haha. well, i'd rather be here than off somewhere else. and as for what the poem's doing, it's trying to string haiku-moments into an entire experience, moment after moment that, together, mark a passing of time (which the actual haiku form doesn't allow, but this form does). as i started this, all the lines were in an haiku format, but here and there i had to change things to fit the form, its pace. that has lead to a few bad phrases, but i hope to fix those once i've got my distance from this poem's core. i'm struggling with one image, though. would appreciate if you could help out:
do you find this:
today
the sunset
under a cow's udder
or
today
the sunset
drinking under a cow's udder
best catching the moment? do you like the possibilities no verb gives the haiku (where all is association: what can a sunset do under a cow's udder), or the more specific of "drinking". generally, too much specificness is bad, as you know--it's important to give an haiku an opedness--but here, does it make it better?
ps ps--not all contemporary haikus consist of two images juxtaposed--although most are. the form is so lenient. in western haiku making, the important thing is if the poem has caught an transcended moment--juxtaposing images, thus creating duality, is only one of many ways to do this---although it is, in most cases, my favourite way of doing it.
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you are a fresh of breath air ... .. i love this
today
the sunset
under a cow's udder
drinking under takes me into a fantasy and doesnt hang well (so to speak) .. heheh
today
the sunset
under a cow's udder
you may need to rethink today ... or explain it extremely well ... it seems superfluous and so if i take your haiku to the s/l/s version we have (and taking away today, the is not required?0
sunset
under a cow's udder
a dripping tap
and then the duplicated article would not do ....
the sun sets
under a cow's udder
dripping tap
(see how the articles are interchangeable which sets up the phrase /fragment) .. hehe ... a form with much depth and challenge ...
just playing with your s..... but it gives a good pivot and imagery ?
hey .. i am going to send you a link ... PLEASE do write to ask him to join you up ... i promise you will get the best of the best (IN THE WORLD) haiku poetry, (and other short from), and respect, great comment and advice (from editors and well known poets) on your haiku ... (and tanka, and haibun etc) ...
sharp edge poetry and new directions (within the tradition are always welcomed) and this site, i promise you, will grow your poetry - ITS NOT ABOUT conforming to be like everyone else... its about a mutual symbiotic learning/growing ... we all benefit (trust me) ...
and i know you have much to give ... (thats how symbiosis works ... )
this ... "not all contemporary haikus consist of two images juxtaposed--although most are. the form is so lenient. in western haiku making, the important thing is if the poem has caught an transcended moment--juxtaposing images, thus creating duality, is only one of many ways to do this---although it is, in most cases, my favourite way of doing it." ... is wonderful
and post these ...
lovely as always, to engage with you >>> GINA -
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Gina,
This was such a rich comment I had trouble getting enough to write a reply to you without me logging of (timing out). When it happened twice, I lost the energy to return, thus my late reply. I won't forget to copy before submitting this time.
You know, Gina, re. that first haiku you showed, "today" was only added to juxtapose it with "yesterday", and give the poem that forward motion, that sense it consists of an united whole, and not of seperate parts.
I originally had:
nepal frost
sunset
under a cow's udder
if that opening is better. Maybe not linked enough? What about:
bell clapper
sunset
under cow's udder
frosted bell
sunset
under cow's udder
to add another sense to it--touch (the bell), sensation (if choosing "frosted "), sound (if choosing "bell clapper" and "frosted bell"), and give the poem that zoom-technique some haiku's have. First start with something general, then zoome inwards to the specific--to create that balance between the specific and the universal (I think haiku's use season-words to establish an universal feeling into the reader, before it plunges into more specific imagery, now enhanced and made universal BY the universal opening word). Or maybe that's way off!
Re. that link, have you sent it? I'm honoured by your invitation. Sounds like a perfect place to learn. (And get some comments on the fifty other haikus I produced in the span of a week--most my inspired moments last between a day to two weeks, then the window closes and I might have to wait a while before the muse has *restored* (
) its capability to see old things in a different light.
Symbiosis? Looked it up and got an entry to wikipedia, about clownfish. (The humour.
I suspect that wasn't what you had in mind?
the pleasure is mutual. sort of mutual learning / realisation as we try to find a way to answer the other.
james
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