Some say feeling hatred is always wrong
And that it distorts and pollutes the soul;
That it's only slavery to the object hated
That, in time, will demand too heavy a toll.
I agree that it's wrong to hate people blindly,
Simply because of religion, ideology or race.
The only thing prejudice reveals is ignorance
And insecurities that one is unwilling to face.
I also believe hatred should be avoided when possible
But in this troubled world, that's sometimes hard to do.
When unpleasant but necessary tasks must be done,
Hatred is a kind of fuel that can help see us through.
Take all these terrorists hellbent on destruction
Who would happily kill our children if they could -
How can we fight them? It seems there are times
When hatred is not wrong, it's righteous and good.
After all, if we don't hate people who murder children,
What does that say about our hearts and who we are?
Without a healthy contempt and hatred toward evil,
The good people of earth would have never come far.
It always seems to me that those who condemn hatred
Are those who don't know how being victimized feels
But let some monster rape and murder someone they love,
And they immediately abandon their naive, pacifistic ideals.
These are the people who hold candlelight vigils at prisons
When some murdering bastard is about to be put to death.
I would ask why their vigil isn't at the house of the victim,
But with them, I know that I'd only be wasting my breath.
To some people, feeling good about themselves is what matters
So they leave the dirty work to others, whom they then criticize.
They don't have the courage or character to punish the wicked
But they see nothing wrong with attacking anyone who tries.
Victor Frankl said, "There are two races, the decent and the indecent."
So do I have any hatred in my heart? You better believe that I do.
Those who wouldn't hurt a soul without being pushed are "my people."
But to those who prey on the innocent: If I see it, God help you.
Some say we should struggle to understand evil men,
Then hope something we say will make them good.
I agree, but the moment they take an innocent life,
They lose the right to be analyzed and understood.
I'd like nothing more than to be a benign, kindly Pacifist;
An all-loving, tye-dyed, guitar-strumming humanitarian.
Unfortunately, someone needs to protect the vulnerable
Or we'll become a society of well-understood barbarians.
Besides, the only reason Pacifists survive in this world
Is because there are non-pacifists who fight for them.
They enjoy the security that police and soldiers provide
But they never miss a chance to protest and condemn.
My mind might be more placid if I didn't know or care
Or if I turned a blind eye to the evil in the world today
But if there's anything we learned on September 11th,
It's that ignoring evil men doesn't make them go away.
Have you ever stopped to think about what fuels evil?
For rapists, it's power. For killers, it's envy or greed.
But for wiping terrorist scum off the face of the earth,
Hatred is the best fuel, and the only one that I need.
Author notes
On the death penalty - by Dennis Prager
"Those of us who believe in the death penalty for some murders are told by opponents of the death penalty that if the state executes an innocent man, we have blood on our hands.
They are right. I, for one, readily acknowledge that as a proponent of the death penalty, my advocacy could result in the killing of an innocent person.
I have never, however, encountered any opponents of the death penalty who acknowledge that they have the blood of innocent men and women on their hands.
Yet they certainly do. Whereas the shedding of innocent blood that proponents of capital punishment are responsible for is thus far, thankfully, only theoretical, the shedding of innocent blood for which opponents of capital punishment are responsible is not theoretical at all. Thanks to their opposition to the death penalty, innocent men and women have been murdered by killers who would otherwise have been put to death.
Opponents of capital punishment give us names of innocents who would have been killed by the state had their convictions stood and they been actually executed, and a few executed convicts whom they believe might have been innocent. But proponents can name men and women who really were -- not might have been -- murdered by convicted murderers while in prison. The murdered include prison guards, fellow inmates, and innocent men and women outside of prison.
In 1974, Clarence Ray Allen ordered a 17-year-old young woman, Mary Sue Kitts, murdered because she knew of Allen's involvement in a Fresno, Calif., store burglary.
After his 1977 trial and conviction, Allen was sentenced to life without parole.
According to San Francisco Chronicle columnist Debra Saunders, "In Folsom State Prison, Allen cooked up a scheme to kill the witnesses who testified against him so that he could appeal his conviction and then be freed because any witnesses were dead -- or scared into silence." As a result, three more innocent people were murdered -- Bryon Schletewitz, 27, Josephine Rocha, 17, and Douglas White, 18.
This time, a jury sentenced Allen to death, the only death sentence ever handed down by a Glenn County (California) jury. That was in 1982.
For 23 years, opponents of the death penalty have played with the legal system -- not to mention played with the lives of the murdered individuals' loved ones -- to keep Allen alive.
Had Clarence Allen been executed for the 1974 murder of Mary Sue Kitts, three innocent people under the age of 30 would not have been killed. But because moral clarity among anti-death penalty activists is as rare as their self-righteousness is ubiquitous, finding an abolitionist who will acknowledge moral responsibility for innocents murdered by convicted murderers is an exercise in futility.
Perhaps the most infamous case of a death penalty opponent directly causing the murder of an innocent is that of novelist Norman Mailer. In 1981, Mailer utilized his influence to obtain parole for a bank robber and murderer named Jack Abbott on the grounds that Abbott was a talented writer. Six weeks after being paroled, Abbott murdered Richard Adan, a 22-year-old newlywed, aspiring actor and playwright who was waiting tables at his father's restaurant.
Mailer's reaction? "Culture is worth a little risk," he told the press. "I'm willing to gamble with a portion of society to save this man's talent."
That in a nutshell is the attitude of the abolitionists. They are "willing to gamble with a portion of society" -- such as the lives of additional innocent victims -- in order to save the life of every murderer.
Abolitionists are certain that they are morally superior to the rest of us. In their view, we who recoil at the thought that every murderer be allowed to keep his life are moral inferiors, barbarians essentially. But just as pacifists' views ensure that far more innocents will be killed, so do abolitionists' views ensure that more innocents will die.
There may be moral reasons to oppose taking the life of any murderer (though I cannot think of one), but saving the lives of innocents cannot be regarded as one of them.
Nevertheless, abolitionists will be happy to learn that Amnesty International has taken up the cause of ensuring that Clarence Ray Allen be spared execution. That is what the international community now regards as fighting for human rights.
(Dennis Prager is a radio talk show host, author, and contributing columnist for Townhall.com.)
In a list
A contest entry
- Justifying hate by Sublime420.
420 points, ended February 28, 2006, 7 entries
Gold trophy winner
• next poem in this contest, remove from contest
What did you think
Comments
1 - 48 of 48
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Very thought provoking Mark! I must admit I am not an advocate for hating people but most certainly hating the things that they do. To hate a fellow human with burning anger and hatred slowly takes away our own humanity, but to separate them from their deed, hate the deed and fight to change the deeds and the doers attitude so that they don't wish to do that deed anymore gives us hope for a better future. However, in the short term, its so much easier to just blow the bastard to kingdom come!! (that's a joke btw)
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Hey Bex,
Very well said, but I will always consider hatred of evil people to be a virtue, if for no other reason that we can fight them more effectively if there is hatred in the mix. Before they kill, I will talk to them all day long, but after they slaughter innocent people, they should be cut out of the world community like cancer is cut out of the body. The Islamo-Fascists we're fighting right now, for instance, don't deserve the privilege of being reasoned with by superior human beings. In other words, I'm all for your short-term solution. It worked with the Nazi's and the Japanese fascists and it will work with the new crop of psycho bastards. lol
M -
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I think you've touched on one of the fundamental differences between men and women. Women tend to hate the deed only and want to reason with the doer longer than a man will. I don't think either is more right than the other, its just different!!
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Very well said.
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Excellent work
It is a finely written poem. Of course, I see your points. There are contradictions in my idealism. I believe in the death penalty, for example, especially now with DNA evidence.
I tend to agree with much of what you say here. Your strongest argument for me is the "somebody has to do it" one to protect us all.
This is certainly good thinking and good writing.
Be blessed,
--Ellis -
Hey Paul,
Just wanted to send an overdue thank you for your thoughts on this. Hatred and the death penalty are definitely loaded subjects. The philosophy of hatred is more complicated than the death penalty to me, but I know it is an issue that will probably never be resolved in society. I just think it sends a bad message to society to let murderers go on living, even if they become real swell guys later. The value we put on human life should be so high that if someone murders, we will take theirs. In my opinion, anything less than that devalues human innocent life for the sake of sparing the guilty.
Thanks again for the fresh perspective and sharing your experience. I hope you're doing well.
Mark
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Thought I'd return a few reads to you and dropped right into the middle of a little firestorm here I see. It's always interesting to look at these writes from one side (the message) then step to the other and look techinically at the poetry. Sometimes you get so wrapped up in the message, you forget it's poetry [and sometimes there's lots of poetry and no message of course].
A very interesting subject, hatred. Probably all of use feel it at some time, else we lie. I just hate to hate people, if you know what I mean. It's not always easy to separate the idea from the person, or the act from the person, or the words from the person, but to me it's important that we do.
I spent quite a number of years working with prison reform groups and just prison groups and met, talked with and worked with a couple of hundred prisoners, many of them murderers. I had always been an advocate of capital punishment. But somehow, as I was visiting one of those murderers and watching him laugh and play with our three year old son, it was hard to picture him in the electric chair. A "murderer" yes, easy to picture . . . Chuck, not nearly so easy.
Not an easy subject for sure. I've watch several murderers come out of prison, become responsible and contributing members of society, work, get married and bring much joy to others. And, I've seen the reverse too - out of prison and dead within a few months. Hatred of terrorism, hatred of injustice, hatred of evil in general is absolutely necessary. Justice for the wrong doers - equally important. If only the world was black and white - and issues were that simple too.
Anyway, great job on the poem and the thought process - very thorough, thought provoking and well conceived.
Paul
Edited on Mar 03, 11:15 p.m. because ''. -
I hate to admit it but I've never played Dungeons and Dragons or any home video game since Mario Brothers on Nintendo 20 years ago. I think I'm afraid to start because I have a somewhat obsessive personality when it comes to mastering things and I would probably lose years trying, along with my job. haha
I think I may adopt the name Chaotic Good. I like the ring of that.
Thanks,
Mark
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I have to agree with "Three Armies", you most definitely would be chaotic good, and its nice to see more players introducing the world of roleplay, to the world of poet, because, lets face it, performers, whether they be poets, writers, singers, actors...they make the best roleplayers!
My name itself is take froman old dungeons and dragons character I once played, so for now,
Melfice Roesor-Velve lives.
((Roesor-Velve means sorrow blade in the drow (dark elf) language))
MRV -
In many cases, you're right. Some people dislike shy people, for instance, because they remind them of their own shyness, which makes them uncomfortable because they're not confident enough to not become infected by the other person's shyness. The same may be true of rape and murder. Many people have entertained such thoughts at one time or another, felt ashamed of them, then wanted rapists and murderers killed out of a subconscious desire to kill the darkness in themselves. Quite possible. However, I believe that most people don't have the ability or desire to rape or kill anyone just for the hell of it, or money, or for any reason. And even fewer people have the desire to kill thousands at one time, so there is no similarity, subconscious or conscious, between terrorists and the average person. Their thoughts and actions are pure evil and totally immoral whatever their justifications. So my hatred, and the hatred by most normal people in this world for terrorists is well justified and not an indication of some deep desire to become a terrorist ourselves.
We ARE better than those who have harmed us. I don't believe in the moral relativism that U.S. universities have been preaching for the past 40 years. There was a time when I did. My college years were the most liberal years of my life. But after leaving the bubble of academia, filled with professors in love with the sound of their own voices and unaccustomed to arguments with intellectual equals or superiors, I realized how totally full of crap they were. America is a great country and the greatest source of good this world has ever known, despite our flaws and failings. It's most of the rest of the world that can't get itself together, and like poor neighbors throwing rocks through the windows of their rich neighbor who did things right, we're paying the price for their resentment and disappointment with their own barren lives, which are the product of flawed thinking, poor planning, deplorable leadership, and fanatical adherence to outdated religious ideas that were flawed to begin with.
It's true that soldiers come back changed. You can't kill another human being without killing some part of yourself. But there are times in this world when killing is necessary. Tyrants can't be gently persuaded to step down. They kill everyone around them who looks at them wrong because they hold their position with fear and intimidation, as Hussein did. Yet, even with the damage to the soul that war causes soldiers, talk to any WWII veteran and ask him if he regrets defeating the Nazi's. On the contrary, it will invariably be one of the things he is most proud of in his life. The last generation understands that evil exists and they did what was necessary to fight it. I'm sure hating the nazi's and what they were trying to do helped a lot of those soldiers get the job done and stay alive. Of course, none of them wanted to be there. They did it because it was necessary. It was naked aggression against unarmed civilians and somebody had to stop it. The current generation either doesn't understand evil the way the previous ones did, doesn't care to do anything about it unless it is affecting them directly, or both.
I also wish we could get beyond war and live in a utopia where every man is my brother. Unfortunately, there are monsters in this world that need to be stopped. We can't just sit around ignoring suffering around the world and hoping the bad guys won't bother us. We need to think of ourselves as a human family and take action against mass murderers. I just don't think feeling benign and compassionate thoughts about the enemy will help soldiers stay alive and do what they need to do. On the contrary, it will only help the enemy destroy them. Winning a war is like winning a street fight. The one who wins is the one who has the most hatred/anger and the one who is willing to do what the other won't. It's harsh but necessary, and "good" when the objective is to destroy evil men and, along with them, their intentions to slaughter thousands, or millions.
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
Mark
Edited on Feb 27, 7:04 p.m. because ''. -
Isn't hatred really the esssence of not liking the same ability within ourselves to commit the same acts that are perpetrated in our society. The subconscious recognition of these ability and the continuing struggle deep within to keep a balance of both the lighter and darker energies within our own souls?
If we give in to the darker energies then we are no better than those that have harmed us. Yet if we don't defend ourselves those that we love, do we not yet give into the fear that they intend to have us live under?
It is no wonder that those who go into battle come back changed and wounded in more than body. The battle of the mind and spirit comes to the forefront of their minds and they are forced to face the darker parts of their souls. Something that not even the military forces can truly prepare us for. The wounds that they carry have nothing to heal them for the society of this world has yet to accept them as anything deeper than psychology.
Perhaps one day the healers of this world will look deeper than the surface of the fragmented soul. Until then, we will see pictures like those with this poem along with those of souls holding innocent children whom they were unable to save. -
Hi Ros,
I think hating evil does make us better human beings. God hated evil, after all. Here's an interesting article from the L.A. Times by Dennis Prager.
Why God hates terrorists more than gamblers
By Dennis Prager
Dennis Prager's nationally syndicated radio show is heard daily in Los Angeles on KRLA-AM (870). He may be contacted through his website: www.dennisprager.com.
August 14, 2005
THE RECENT BOMBINGS in London once again raise an ancient question: What is the greatest sin? One common response is that all sins are equally bad in God's eyes. But this makes little sense.
Do Catholics who believe it is a sin to masturbate believe that God considers masturbation as wrong as murder? Do Jews who believe it is a sin to eat non-kosher food equate doing so with a Jew committing rape? Do Protestants who believe it is a sin to gamble believe that God views a night at the blackjack table as sinful as abusing a child?
It is particularly sad when religious people depict God in a way that renders him less intelligent than his creations: "Sure, we humans think that murdering a family is worse than taking a stapler home from the office, but God doesn't!"
God, however, is no simpleton, and on the hierarchy of sin the Bible seems to be clear: The worst sin is committing evil in God's name. God abhors evil — the deliberate infliction of unjust suffering on fellow human beings. There are some differences between the Old and New Testaments (e.g., on divorce), but they agree that God hates evil and loves goodness.
"Love your neighbor" is "the great rule" in Judaism and along with love of God (also from the Old Testament) is the central rule of Christianity. God did not destroy Noah's generation because it masturbated, ate forbidden foods or took home cheap objects from the workplace. He did so because it was violently evil.
So to discern what the greatest sin is, we begin with it having to do with evil actions. But that is not the end of it. Even among identical acts of evil, there is one category that is worse than any other: evil committed in God's name.
There are both logical and textual bases for this argument.
The logical argument: The Judeo-Christian position is that evil cannot be vanquished unless people believe that the creator has a moral will, makes moral demands upon all humans and morally judges each human being. Without a God-based moral code, morality becomes a euphemism for personal preferences and humanity sinks into moral anarchy.
Therefore, anyone who attaches the name of God to evil is not only committing an act of evil, he is subverting the only hope for spreading goodness on Earth — belief in a good God who demands goodness. If there is moral anarchy when God is removed from morality, imagine what ensues when God is identified with evil.
The textual argument: Only one of the Ten Commandments says that God will not forgive — usually translated as "will not hold guiltless" — one who violates the commandment: "Do not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain, for he will not hold guiltless whoever takes his name in vain."
This is almost always understood as meaning, "Do not say God's name when unnecessary" (such as, "God, that was some home run"). But this is most unlikely. The idea that God can forgive murder, for instance, but cannot forgive saying his name for no good reason is morally untenable. The literal Hebrew — "Do not carry God's name in vain" — gives a much more reasonable understanding. It strongly implies that the great sin here is one who carries God's name, i.e., talks and acts religious, but acts contrary to God's will.
This understanding is further reinforced by Judaism, which has always held that the greatest sin is "desecration of the Name" (khillul Hashem), which means doing bad things while acting religious.
For these reasons, every person who believes in God and every God-based religion is hurt by the epidemic of Muslims murdering in the name of God. It reinforces every anti-religious stereotype and thus further alienates people from taking seriously any God-based religion. Bad religious people are far more destructive to the cause of religion than are atheists.
Apparently fear or ethnic and religious solidarity prevents many religious Muslim leaders from confronting the damage Muslim terrorists are doing to Islam's name, Allah's name and God-based morality generally. But for those of us who take God and goodness seriously, the world is witnessing the greatest sin on a scale unknown since the early Middle Ages.
If Jews, Christians and Muslims cannot say this publicly, we who are religious deserve the contempt the secular world already has for us.
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Chaotic Good? Hmmm, I like that. (I think.) lol
Thanks,
Mark -
Oh, I get it now. The diet thing in the author's comment. Actually, kosher food preparation takes the cake for cruelty. I wouldn't eat that, either. Basically, it involves cutting the animals throat and letting it bleed to death while a rabbi blesses it. Real nice. You can be cruel directly or indirectly. There would be a lot more vegetarians, or at least semi-vegetarians like me, if people had to do the dirty work themselves. I always laugh at Jewish people who claim to be spiritual or enlightened or humanitarian, yet still eat kosher. The hypocrisy is immense. Most people would get righteously pissed if they saw someone kicking a dog, but they don't give a shit about what goes on in the slaughterhouses as long as their dinner tastes good.
Check out a book called Diet For A New America by John Robbins. It's a real eye-opener.
M -
Unfortunately those terrorists were innocent babies once.The teachings and the way they were brought up is the root cause of their evil.Tainted as a rotten apple in a bowl.To fight this evil we have to find the root cause.how we do that I don't know.First we need to understand why.I agree is is nigh impossible to feel hatred for these people but doeas it make us any better people to do so.A very thought provoking write Mark, well done, Ros
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In the D&D world, you sir, would be Chaotic Good.
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i like the way you are able to write your views with such honesty.you have your convictions and you don't sugar-coat anything.a person of your magnitude is far and wide in between.you not only state your position you can explain your position without feeling you have to defend your position.hatred has its place in society.God hes hatred for all forms of sin.i can't say i agree with this entirely but i can say i respect it completely.
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Soo...Rickerby went Kosher....hmmm...
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This was a very thought provoiking piece. I loved it. I feel the same way you do about many things and this is one of them for sure. See I have gotten into the habit of not only reading your poetry but the comments that follow so I don't ask you a question you have already answered or corrected you on something someone else has. I read this and I love your response to some of the things said. I loved this whole idea. I can plainly see that fighting hatred with hatred would be pointless but terrorists aren't hating they are just plain evil and like you said we need to fight evil with hatred sometimes, it just makes sense. See right now I am trying to join the Army, I have a few things I gotta get straightened out paperwork-wise and I will be on my way. So I truly agree with what you have said and it is very late so once again I seem to be rambling so I'm going to let you go. Great write.
Sharon -
Sublime420,
I agree. There is certainly much to get angry about in this world, at home and abroad. If a Muslim says to me, "I'm very angry about what the west is doing in my country", I'll talk to him until the sun comes up to try to help him see things differently. But if a Muslim stands up waving a boxcutter around in an airplane I'm on, I'll use every ounce of hatred in my body to stomp his ass to death. And I see nothing wrong with hating people who saw people's heads off to make a point. Like murder, terrorism overrides all other evils and those who commit such acts lose the privilege of an audience for their grievances. They must be destroyed, like a cancer, or an infestation of cockroaches. They'll do it to us happily, without one iota of moral confusion. That's what some people still don't get. I guess 9/11 wasn't bad enough. I hope they don't have to get a more severe wake-up call.
Thanks for this contest idea. It gave me a chance to say something I didn't even realize I needed to say until I saw the description. It was very cathartic to write. lol
Take care,
Mark -
Your personal views are just that, and gets many of us stirred up wither for or against - this is the type of passionate poem that will disturb many, and encourage others. Well written -
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Inter cosmic lover,
I'm not "fighting hatred with hatred". I'm fighting evil with hatred. Murderers and rapists don't always hate their victims. In fact, they don't even think they're evil. Most often, nobody - not even the worst serial killer - thinks, "Wow, I'm one evil bastard." They're just doing what they feel like they need to do, which is probably one of the most chilling things about it - that some maniac can be sticking a screwdriver in some teenage girl's ear (like the Hillside Stranglers did in Glendale in the early 1980's) and it's nothing personal against the girl. She was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
With the terrorists, you're right, they're twisted by hatred, but hatred and anger toward naked aggression like theirs and people who want to kill as many innocent civilians as possible is not the same thing. There is moral violence and immoral violence. Stopping a mass murderer - like Hitler, for instance - before he can commit more murders is moral violence. Killing someone for fun or profit is immoral violence. Likewise, there is moral hatred and immoral hatred. Hatred that fuels positive action is moral. Hatred that fuels terrorism against innocent people is immoral.
As far as fighting hate with love, I will also try to do that until someone kills. After that, as I said in the poem, they have lost the right to be analyzed or understood by civilized beings. It is then the moral obligation of society to remove that person from this earth to say loud and clear to everyone that we hold human life so dear, that if you take it, we will take yours. Anything less is a slap in the face to the survivors. It also cheapens human life in the minds of those who would do evil. I feel compassion for the murdered and his/her family, not the murderer.
I hope this clarifies things. I'm sure I haven't won you over to my way of thinking. I just hope we don't get overrun with terrorists because I don't even think we'll have time to test the "fighting hate with love" theory. It would only make it easier for them to kill us. They would laugh at our tolerance and murder the "Peace-Loving, Tree-Hugging, Tofu-eating, "Save-The-Whale" pleading hippies" as gleefully as they would the neo-cons.
Thanks for your thoughts on this. I appreciate it.
Mark
Edited on Feb 23, 8:40 p.m. because ''. -
Your words just hit my heart directly. I read every single line twice. these words are so heartfelt. You truly did an amazing job. No lie, i am in tears right now. Your words express the truth so well, with a burning passion inside. the picture you chose for this poem softened my heart, and i stopped looking at it for a while before reading this wonderful poem.
"Victor Frankl said, "There are two races, the decent and the indecent."
So do I have any hatred in my heart? You better believe that I do.
Those who wouldn't hurt a soul without being pushed are "my people."
But to those who prey on the innocent: If I see it, God help you." This was it...this is where tears rolled down my cheeks.
Amazing social commentary. i have no words to describe you work
9i woul lke to bookmark it, if it is ok with you)
This contest is yours.... -
well done
i love a good arguement to support a morally questionable view. well done. -
i have a book you might be helped by. i have a hard time reading it is so potent. THE DEATH OF RIGHT AND WRONG by Tammy Bruce
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WOW!!! Strong words!!! Interesting story in author's comments...Thanks for sharing your thought provoking piece...
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Applause!
compelling, thought provoking write; as a veteran, you pen many valid reasons for why we're "over there" in the first place. thank you--i salute you for writing this.
(((HUGS))) and love, Karla. -
Not to sound like one of those Peace-Loving, Tree-Hugging, Tofu-eating, "Save-The-Whale" pleading hippies, ( alright I am what I sound like) but fighting hatred with hatred is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline. It just can't be done.
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makes one sit back and absorb thoughts. great writing style
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Yes, i am glad you joined my contest. I tell this to all my freinds who try to make fun of the war or talk shit, im like, look, theres guys over there who are fighting this with virtually no moral support. What the fuck is peoples problems with you guys, i mean to hate the government is one thing, but to treat you like nothing because of their beliefs is just wrong. and the nyou have to deal with them "islam" fake fucks who shouldnt even be doing that if they took that book seriously. but i mean its sad, id rather have you guys fighting therethen here, and ill proudly say ill support you guys. its you who keep this place the way it is wheter we like it or not, thats the damn truth. No one hasd any morals anymore in this country, fight for those who still do man.
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Viyanna,
Thank you for your thoughts and for sharing your personal story with me. Most of all, congratulations on finding peace within yourself after being victimized. Where I was coming from with this one wasn't so much getting revenge against people for my own pleasure as it was doing what is necessary to stop evil people from hurting others. However, if someone hurt me or someone I love, or even someone I don't know, I don't believe in passive/inactive anger or hatred, either. I only believe in hatred, as I said, as fuel for getting rid of the person for the sake of society, either by life in prison or by death - as long as they're not enjoying their lives after taking the lives of others. This poem is really a call for punishment of evil, not a defense or advocacy of stewing in hatred for its own sake. That's obviously a total waste of time and damaging to the soul, and I'm glad you're not doing that to yourself anymore.
Thanks again.
Mark
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though i am neither a pacifist nor someone who believes that i should hate or not hate is immaterial here. i know completely what it is like to be victimized and the one thing that has made me survive is not hating those who did what they did. i have had to work very hard to get to this point and hating kept me sick, using drugs and almost dead. there are those i do not like nor choose to be around-but to have the people who left me in a field for dead murdered, i think not. that would not appease me one single bit. to have my wife-abusing es-husband beat to near death would only make me like him. do i like him-NO. do i hate him-NO. do i ever wish to see him-NO. but to hate him only would give him power over me that i have tried so hard to break away from. a power that i choose to share with others by showing love and kindness to them. this does not make me better than him. nor does it make me less than some others. it makes me me. i was a victim as long as i kept giving those who hurt me the power over my heart, mind and soul. i am me and this is how i feel about your very well written piece rather i agree with it or not it was awesomely written. viyanna r langager
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Man...I am feelin' this with a passion...I mean that...I TOTALLY
can relate to justified anger...you broke it down and I'm adding you to my favorites and bookmarking this piece...thank you for your insightfulness and the intelligence to unfold it verbally...this piece is...there are no words...it's just real -
Very Effective
I think you nearly nailed hatred here. Perhaps the best discussion of hatred I've ever read was in 'Perelandra' by C.S. Lewis. Great poem--it's great to see this oftimes sticky subject addressed.
My favorite lines were,
"After all, if we don't hate people who murder children,
What does that say about our hearts and who we are?"
and this, which although funny, is quite true,
"Or we'll become a society of well-understood barbarians."
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Wow fantastic write! Thanks for sharing your philosophy of hatred and your very true prospective. Although hatred is somewhat a negative word, you somehow made it positive in an enriching way! I could feel a jingle as I read through this as though it could be put to music but talking not singing... Keep it up I like
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Thanks, Sharon. Ooooh, I never thought of that one - - LIVEEVIL. Pretty spooky! lol
I hope you're doing great!
Mark
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And I want to thank you!
Dearest Mark Rickerby,
“Have you ever stopped to think about what fuels evil?”
Beautifully Penned my new old friend.
This thought has encircled my life
I’ve wondered on shores of strife
“What fuels such evil?”
The answer is within the question.
And the question is the answer.
Live is Evil turned around
Utterly Fantastical
A wake up call for all.
Namaste Blessed Be, to you and yours eternally~
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your poem invokes thought, as a good poem should. powerful words and thoughts am bookmarking this one. have to say the power of your poem enhanced by the selected picture the irony of a soldier so gently touching a kitten kept repeating in my mind with your words. i am sad that all thro the ages we still in this day cannot live in tolerence of others and respect each person if only for the fact that they are humans and life is the most previous gift. well written fan-bloody-tastic.
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Great
This is amazing, you did very well with it, and I'm better off having read it. -
i really like this poem it explains a lot. i dont have much time to comment so i will put more later im bookmarking this poem, its fantastic!
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phenomenal
You did a fantastic job with this poem and I agree with your statement completely. While I try to stick to telling my own personal story in my poetry, I think people should express whatever is on their mind and you said a lot of what I've been wanting to say for a long time. Good for you, and well said. -
Thanks, Val. You made many interesting points, particularly that hate is part of us and can be good or evil depending on how it is applied. Of course, I agree completely. Hate is good when it fuels good acts which need to be done. Sometimes, hating is the only way good people can go against their own character and do unpleasant things. Personally, I've watched Al-Quaeda slowly saw the head off of an innocent American contractor who was helping to rebuild Iraq. It was the most repugnant thing I've ever seen, and I can honestly say I hate any member of Al-Quaeda, or anyone who can do such a thing, because of it.
I always laugh when someone says "I hate war", or even calls themselves "anti-war" as if the people who are waging war for some higher purpose like war. Technically, nobody is "pro-war". There may be some evil corporations that profit from it, weapon manufacturing companies that actually fan the flames of minor squabbles to create new markets for their products, and the occasional military whacko who enjoys it, and I hate those people, too. But generally, everybody hates war, not just the anti-war crowd. To most, it's a necessary evil in a world filled with madmen who murder their own people and have delusions about dominating the world somehow.
To anyone who believes in trying to understand evil people and help them change their hearts AFTER they killed people, I always suggest they watch evil in action at a website such as www.michaelsavage.com. The videos of terrorist acts there are extremely graphic and disturbing. Most people who watch them come away with the same feeling I have of "we have to stop these maniacs".
Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts on this. I appreciate it.
Mark
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Whether people want to admit it or not, Hatred is in all of us and it didn't just appear out of thin air, it had to be given to us as a trait from the very beginning. Hatred "can" and "does" have it's rightful place in everyone. I agree when you say that we as human beings should not hate for the simple reasons of religion, race, creed, nationality, ect. ect., BUT, we should have hate for those who smirk and laugh as we suffer and can care less about what they are doing, whether it be in war or in our own backyard. Hatred grows out of control when we start thinking we are better than someone or something else, Hence we have terrorism, murder, rape, and domestic violence. We may not want to think that certain things do not affect us and so we should not have hatred, those who think this are ignorant to what is going on in the world around them. All of these things and I'm sure alot more, affect everyone in some shape or form. To ignore your hatred within is to ignore yourself to some degree. I found this write to be very interesting and a topic in which some may find offensive. I however, do not. I see this as an eye opener to the world that seems to think that they can remove all hatred by killing off those who hate. I find this answer to be very hateful in itself and extremely narrow minded. Hatred can feul you in good things as well as the bad. I must ask everyone to think about someone that they so called "dislike", for example, You say you "dislike"them and would do anything to keep from being just like them, WAKE UP!!! You "hate" them!! You "hate" them so much that you actually watch yourself so you do not become just like them. This, for instance, is a Good Hate. Whether it be how you raise your kids or how you walk, talk, see the world, it is still "Hate" that made you who you are today. Hate drove you to become what you thought is better. No-one can say that they have never said "I hate......", because we all have at some point in our lives and this is what helps us make "some" choices in our lives. Any who, I thought this was a great read. Keep penning Mark, as I know you will. Hugs ~val~
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How? By killing all of them. That's the only way to win a war.
I didn't "lump together" rapists and murderers. I just mentioned them both. I believe there are gradations of evils. Blowing up 3000 people is worst than killing one person. However, I would have both people who committed the acts put to death.
Black magic, in the comic book sense, is used to do evil to innocent people. Curses, etc. If hatred is used that way, it's wrong. If it is used as fuel to punish evil people, it's good.
Re. your comment, "People who break the moral laws of humanity with no remorse are put to death. But not by my hand. I did not give brith or create these ppl. I have no right to kill them, no matter what they have done to me. And i cannot see into the hearts of some of them to see if there's remorse!"
Has anybody you're close to ever been murdered? I'd bet any amount of money that if it ever happens, God forbid, you won't be so flexible about letting them continue to live.
There's a talk show host here in L.A. named Dennis Prager. He is pro death penalty. A Christian woman called his show one day and yelled at him about how he can take a life when only God should give and take life, how he didn't understand the mind of the killer and what made him the way he was, etc., etc. He said basically what I said in this poem. Not putting murderers to death is an injustice in many ways.
1. The person they killed is dead forever while they get to sit in prison playing video games, working out, running, reading, eating, and receiving love letters from confused idiots.
2. There is no closure for the family and friends of the victim, who almost always want the person who killed their loved one to die.
3. It sends a message to other potential murderers that we really don't put much importance on human life and if they murder, they will probably not be put to death. The message needs to be, "We value human life so much that if you take one, you will not be allowed to have yours any longer."
By the way, the lady that called him and yelled at him for being pro death penalty called him about a year later and said, "I used to be against the death penalty but one of my daughters was raped and killed last month and I just want you to know that I agree with you now. Something has to be done about these people."
He said he was sorry to hear about that, etc., but asked her why it took her losing someone close to her before she felt that evil people should be punished in proportion to their crimes. She had no answer. That's the fatal flaw of human beings - worrying more about the feelings of murderers than the victims, and not feeling justified in punishing them until it becomes personal. If we have to be hurt or lose someone we know personally before we desire justice, the human race is totally screwed.
Forgiveness is a crock, too, if the murderer is not begging to be forgiven. There is no virtue in forgiving someone who is still laughing at you and relishing the memory of how they killed your mother.
By the way, the death penalty is endorsed and employed in every book of the Bible.
Thanks,
Mark
Edited on Feb 23, 4:23 p.m. because ''. -
"How can we fight them? It seems there are times
When hatred is not wrong, it's righteous and good"
I don't know if that's hatred. I'd say that that's protecting yourself from further attack. Or maybe vengeanve or revenge. I think you mislabled hate. Maybe because u cannot lump a mass-murderer together with a rapist. This is a complicated arguement.
For me, hate is always wrong. Because it is a consuming thing. Using hate to get the job done? That's like using black magic for a good purpose and then saying that black magic is good! Or cheating on cheating on ur medicine exam to get good grades so you can tend the poor and then sating u were cheating for a good reason and so cheating in that case isn't bad.
People who break the moral laws of humanity with no remorse are put to death. But not by my hand. I did not give brith or create these ppl. I have no right to kill them, no matter what they have done to me. And i cannot see into the hearts of some of them to see if there's remorse!
You're right about one thing. It's up to us good human beings to not sit around and let evil prosper. The more salient question I see in your write is "how?"
Marissa.
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Thanks for your thoughts on this. It's always interesting to get a Biblical perspective. I added a verse to answer your question, "What can change an evil heart?" Here it is -
Some say we should strive to understand evil men
And then give them what they need to become good.
I agree, but the second they take one innocent life,
They lose the right to be analyzed and understood.
Laws are man's attempt to legislate morality. Terrorist acts, murders, etc., are dealbreakers with the civilized world. People who commit them must be put to death themselves. Anything less is an insult to the memory of the victims and their families. Light punishments also make statements about how much value we put, or don't put, on human life. God may punish people after life, but it's up to good human beings to deal with the evil ones now.
Thanks again,
Mark -
There's a phrase among many Christians that this poem brings to mind- "Hate the sin- not the sinner." I believe righteous anger has its place... The only questionable part is WHO determines that the anger is righteous or not!
The Bible says we're to hate evil, and love the good...
It's strange how well this poem kind-of goes with that last comment I left you, about twisted thinking. Outward actions are the result of inner thoughts... or, as the Bible so plainly puts, "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he."
I think an even bigger question than what fuels evil is this: What can change an evil heart?
I think you made a very apropos entry here!
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