Most good poems are written with care
The writer selects and polishes every word.
So, despite a hundred different readers
Their meaning is clearly heard.
The sense is not just in the metre
Or the rhythm or the rhyme.
The message is in the phrasing
It stands out clearly every time.
The phrasing is not always static.
It can vary from verse to verse.
A poem comes alive with those changes
Standardisation usually makes things worse.
Each individual reader
Will read in their own special way
But allowing the words that are written
To tell what the poet wanted to say.
But sometimes the reader hears music
And can fit a tune round the ode
So that every subsequent hearer
Has to follow the self-same code.
The notes are carefully crafted
So the words fit firmly in place.
But if the tune not the words become master
That's a potential shame and disgrace.
Words and music can live together
Please don't get me wrong.
But sometimes we need to remember
The difference between poem and song.
Author notes
There were 2 prompts that produced this poem.
One was a review of my performance at the Cutty Wren Folk Club which said I had turned some well known songs into poems. (they were poems to begin with) I had (hopefully) entertained folk with some of my own work and two of Cicely Fox Smiths poems. LEE FORE BRACE and TRAVELLER.
The second was a regular comment heard many times at Lancaster Maritime Festival, Easter 2004 when a singer would say "The words cried out for a tune so I wrote one"
Written April 4th, 2004
In a list
A contest entry
- Music speaks to the soul. Do you agree?, write about it for me. by classical beauty.
400 points, ended January 24, 2006, 6 entries
• next poem in this contest, remove from contest
What did you think
Comments
1 - 35 of 35
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YOu really are evil you know
I meant the ultimate poem for me personally, others might hate it or think it is crap, but I will like it and think its the best ever
On my way to check out the other poem -
Thanks for the kind words and applause sycho warrior but what will you do after you have written the ultimate poem
and what will the rest of us do?
I once wrote I am not a poet allpoetry.com/Poem/1303492 what do you think of the description of a poet in this one I wonder?
Jim S -
This is quite a beautiful poem and it sparked several thoughts in me.
"The message is in the phrasing"
This made me think about something my English teacher once said about writers, something along the lines of writers selecting every word very carefully and having a reason for every word they write.
One day I want to write the ultimate poem for me, one which convey several different meanings depending on how ou read id.
Anyways, great poem as always
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Thanks for your comment. I'll keep writing but the quality is usually low.
I'm glad you liked this piece.
Jim S -
i like the poem. keep up the great work.
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Thanks for your kind words and generous applause. I'm glad you liked this, more serious, piece.
Jim S -
I absolutly loved this !
But sometimes the reader hears music
And can fit a tune round the ode
So that every subsequent hearer
Has to follow the self-same code.
definitley true! This is just another flawless piece of yours. -
I know dear friend.I was just kidding.
You're more kind than telling us this.
Shahrzad -
Hi Shahrzad,
I am not criticising anyone writing poetry I am complaining about those spoiling poetry with bad music.
Jim S -
This is a true great piece.
Yes,I know we're not doing great here. But at least we're trying to do our best.Please forgive our bad written poems.
Shahrzad -
Thanks for the kind words. I hadn't intended to be too jolly with this one as I hear a lot of folk singers trying their hand at putting a tune to what was originally a great poem and ruining it. Some folk can make it work but many try and fail.
Jim S
Edited on Aug 21, 10:06 because ''. -
Thanks Jay,
Glad you enjoyed it.
Jim S -
Thanks for the kind words. i'm glad you thought it worthwhile.
Jim S -
Thanks for the kind words and generous applause.
Jim S -
It's funny you should pick on that couplet Marianne! I actually think there should be another the in there
-----But if the tune not the words become the master
alternatively I could pluralise
----But if tunes not words become the master.
Which do you think fits best?
Thanks for your initial comment BTW
Jim S
Edited on Jan 16, 10:33 because 'silly formatting codes'. -
That's a really interesting poem, on two levels.
The first is that the poem is technically super! I really enjoyed the rhyme and phonological features that brought this together! There is only one change I would make:
"But if the tune not the words become master
That's a potential shame and disgrace."
I would remove "the" from "the tune". I think that reads better, but what do I know? I'm a young 'un.
Secondly, the message itself isn't one generally considered but I really enjoy the theme. You are dead right! I like the way you pose a resistance to the lack of individualism.
Well written!
Marianne -
Thanks for that Doug.
I like to think of poetry as songs without tunes.
In a folk club there are regular song sessions (words and tunes), there are regular tune sesions (songs without words) and when I am around we have poetry interludes (words without tunes). Something for everybody.
Jim S -
Thanks for writing and I'm glad you liked this. Yes the poem allows you to hear music when you read it but, unlike an actual tune, the music varies for each reader.
Jim S -
Yeah, I like this too. Many songs have a poetic quality to them, and have inspired my own poetic translations. I guess that to me, songs are poems, and poems are musical to my ears. Nice write, Jim.
peace
doug
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Sometimes the poem lets me hear music from my heart. I find that poetry speeks to me when I can relate and sings to me when I feeling great. I like your words and your rhyme and will return another time! The Shaker
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Thanks mm. Poetry can be lyrics, lyrics are poetical.
But good poetry doesn't automatically become good songs by the addition of poor tunes. They have to match.
Jim S -
Thanks for a nice comment G. You are getting to the crux of the matter. Lyrics are poetry but not all poetry is lyrical. To haer a well loved poem butchered to fit someone's recently penned tune is anathema.
I have even experienced some people who have put tunes to my own words. Very flattering but, if the tune does not fit my writing it is galling.
Jim S -
This was not writen to say that songs are not poems or lyricists are not poets. It was about work that started out definitively as a poem and years or even centuries later someone adds a tune that anchors the emotions to a single form.
As a poem the reader can use his/her own stress and pace and emphasis within the guidelines of the poet's puctuation. As a song the tune's guidelines can be as rigidly constraining as a straightjacket.
There are many good poems which have become good songs but there are also many good poems ruined by mediocre tunes and to sit, as I often do, in folk clubs and hear these great poems ruined to produce an average song is galling.
Jim
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Morning Robin,
This was not meant to refer to work written as songs or to re-writing of old songs. Toper and Simon were writing basically for music Wordsworth wasn't, Burns did both.
Some work, written as a poem, is seen to be worthy of a tune and someone writes the music. It can work really well. Amazing Grace for example or it can work really badly where the words are bent to the music and the freedom to vary the delivery that a reciter has is severely restricted by the music. A reciter may have different stresses and emphasis on the words in each verse but if their is a tune that often constrains the singer and the feeling can be lost.
Jim -
Exceptionally Well Done
I have really enjoyed your poem, and I agree with your philosophy. I often hum songs and my husband wonders aloud why I like such an inane song. I always remark that the music is good, even if the lyrics are repetitive and cliche. So I think sometimes the music saves a bad poem and vice versa. The magic is when you get the two together!!! Paul Simon is one of the few poets who did that successfully. Thanks for a wonderful read, this poem should be required reading for beginning poets! I'm going to bookmark it right now
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i like this poem. i think it is true. every word of it speaks true meaning. i think that poetry should not have music because then it is a song. i agree with you poem. nice job and keep it up.
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Justin Toper (I think that's his name) writes the lyrics to Elton John songs.
He sends him the lyrics through by fax, and Elton then puts them to music (so I read).
If you were to look at his lyrics without the music, they would be shit!
On the other hand, Paul Simon wrote some wonderful poetry, and put it to music......
"Old friends......sat on a park bench like book ends...etc.
Interesting poem. -
I very much liked this.
It was very well written and I loved how you said basicly that poetry comes from the soul and doesn't have to conform to standard rhythms
Very well done.
VERY -
yea i agree sometimes that gets lost but we need to remeber this is a good piece i like it a agree
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Wow! This write of yours is so true. I been I wrote a poem from a song and some of the comment were like so rude but that's not the point. Anyway, I agree with this. Great Write!
~Jay~ -
This is a jolly and well-written piece which I greatly enjoyed.
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Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate songs written as songs and there are some wonderful ones around.
I was trying to focus on all the times people take old poems, that have a different rhyme and rhythm according to each verse and reader, and place them in the straight-jacket of a tune where each verse reuires the same beat and delivery. As I do a lot of public recitations I like the freedom to speed or slow, stress or slide over different phrases according to my feelings and the audience reaction.
Jim S
Edited on Jan 15, 5:30 p.m. because ''. -
True
That is very nice and true. Sometimes people make music and forget to make the words that go to it as good. You are definately right in saying taht all songs were once poems because the are. It is called free verse. -
That was quick. posting to comments in 50 seconds.
Thanks for your positive response
Jim S -
This is highly one of my favorite poems, I like it alot. You are an amzing writer, and this is good.
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