Wherefore these dreams have dug the deepest well,
Beneath earth's sky to drown each day's new break;
A life that lives asleep dies when awake,
But in the lull of night no tears can tell.
Through sleep I've wandered dreams where love seemed real
Against life's loneliness: What hopes within?
To flee the day that dawn brings darkness in:
For my whole life, I've felt how shadows feel.
I did not know what I was meant to do,
So hid away the day from truth's bright pain
Within a realm of nightlong dreams well known,
But hidden from the light -- lost my life too.
To be with you, my love, and dream again:
No hiding from the dawn my dreams have shown.
Author notes
[Petrarchan Sonnet]
This is my first petrarchan sonnet.
Written November 27th, 2005
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What did you think
Comments
1 - 52 of 52
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someone who is depressed has a tendency to sleep a lot. A person might hide away their entire life.. sleeping.. not wanting to face the world.
the poem says.. wake up.. go face the world.
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Italian sonnet.....well-written,..
However, I am sorry to say, that I got lost to the whole idea in the middle of it all, so I am still uncertain of what I've understood..
you describe the darkness, and the voidful shadows in them, and how they are born in silence and die in the reality of the light...aside from that I didn't go anywhere....lol, sorry again.
I do like your poem, and that's why I want to know more about it...besides, I respect ppl who try forms, and especially sonnets...
hope I wasn't offensive, your poem was in an overall, a good one, and worth the time to read.
Raven Dark. -
applause
You did a beautiful job with this sonnet. Its meter is in perfect iambics, form and rhyme is perfect, metaphors present and intriquing, couplet lovely. Thank you for this exquisite sonnet. Gorgeous!
-Belle
Edited on Apr 29, 5:28 p.m. because 'spell'. -
masterblaster: the coma is not strictly necessary around 'my love' in the penultimate line but since 'my love' serves as something of an interjection (the sentence could easily be 'to be with you and dream again') 'my love' is seperated by comas. As for saying 'in dreams' that would IMHO be confusing and against the thread of the poem. The speaker has been running away from life in dreams, "Through sleep I've wandered dreams where love seemed real".
The speaker knows that the only way to truly be with his love is to wake up and face reality. To say 'be with you IN dreams' would suggest the speaker should go back to sleep. He wants to wake up and make dreams come true he doesn't want to keep sleeping.
"A life that lives asleep dies when awake"
Thus the line is "To be with you [...] and dream again" -
Hi, I liked this sonnet very much, pen ultimate line, why the comma, perhaps would read better ,"to be with you my love in dreams again"just a thought,nice one, hugs Di
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Powerful! Speechless you'd be left in!
Wow! This is such a powerful; incredible poem and I never read anything like it. you certainoy are a very powerful poet who can really voice themselves be autifully through words. the contrast and the flow of this poem was marvelous aand such beaty came from the wording in this poem. you are truly an incredible talented poet and very nice poem. Thanks for promotying this poem it was worth the read Grrrrrrrrreat write!
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Beautiful
"For my whole life, I've felt how shadows feel." This poem was amazing and I love this line! It is not my favorite but one of many in the piece. You did an excellent job! It was rather calming reading something of this sort, calming and serene, in a sort of disturbing way. Anyways, I absolutely love this! And the picture is also beautiful. A wonderful way to portray your feelings, your style and amazing talent! Well Done! -
stunning
My heart is aflutter to... throw all form to the wind and this would still breathe forever........ -
Yah ok... this was a truly great write! BRAVO! WOW!! so true... it expresses a deep emotion that I'm sure many of us have experienced... I too have dreamed such dreams... and you can only know that love is real when those dreams become reality!!
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AHHHHH!! IF ONLY........
i really have no clue what form this was suppose to follow. nor do i care. what i do know is htat this is like one of the most beautiful things i have ever read. i froze while reading it. oh my goodness. if you even had a clue as to what you have just done to this poor little heart here. move over william wallace. this is spectacular. that is all i can say. viyanna r langager -
wow... you are an amazing writer. This peice really spoke to me. I've entered you most recent contest and now I am embarressed after reading your work!!!
great job though. I'm really impressed.
Edited on Dec 14, 3:03 because ''. -
Not the kind of sonnet I'm used to seeing, and I enjoyed the break from the typical choice. You've done a good job. I can't do nearly the critiqing some others have already done here, so I'll just say that I found it a worthy entry as is.
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I understand, detailed analysis regarding use of some words had already been made.
I liked the in between question marks.
Last stanza is excellent and thought provoking.
Best wishes,
manoj -
You are absolutely correct. normal petrarchan rhyme for the octave is abbaabba. this one uses a variation of that. I would say it is abbaAccA. 'well' 'tell' 'real' and 'feel' are near rhymes. The deviation serves no true purpose in itself. Just a reflection of my poor rhyming skills.
Thanks for your comments. -
I've decided to change the spelling of wherefor to wherefore.
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You've made a sombre mood with this, and the words you have pulled together are varied and interesting. I missed the point of the volta.
It's my impression that in the Petrarchan sonnet, the octet rhymes are abbaabba. The Miltonian rhymes are abbabaab, but yours are abbacddc. Your sestet follows one of the two Italian variants.
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Wonderful just wonderful it seems like you just plucked it right out of that time period. It was so perfect and the descriptions were so vivid
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IrishYndina: Your comments are always excellent. Thank you.
I think you misunderstood my comment. This was my first petrarchan sonnet. I have about written perhaps a dozen english sonnets and several nonstandard sonnets.
Wherefor and Wherefore are actually the same word. So it is merely a question of style. nightlong is a word as well.
A coma before the 'too' in 'my life too' is valid, however not necessary. coma's are only absolutely required when comprehension is at stake.
As for enjambment I use it when I can, it just happened that in this poem none was used.
Here are 3 lines from "This Dream of Love", a cycle of 4 english sonnets I wrote.
Sad bleeding figments spread and fester full
With words that glisten stripped of hope; it seems
That promises mean little after all.
I have a list of all my sonnets and sonnetlike poems at the top of the page.
I have read a few modern sonnets which impressed me. But none so far have moved me to tears unless they were about classic themes. The best modern sonnet I've read is by a poet on AP.
"Hold me down, Let me Drown in You" allpoetry.com/Poem/573397
but it is about love. It moved me to tears.
thank you for all your great comments. They are always very informative and helpful.
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Sorry, but after all of that gibberish I just wrote, I thought I'd make one more little suggestion...I noticed all of your lines are end stopped. Have you played around with enjambment at all? It can be very fun, and depending on where you break a phrase, you can sometimes make it have more than one meaning. For instance,
I kissed Tina and Sam
was mad.
is read much differently than
I kissed Tina and Sam was mad.
In the first example, on first read, you think you kissed both Tina and Sam...and then the line break comes and we see you kissed Tina only and Sam was angry about it. It makes you stop and think a bit. Weak example, I know...but hopefully it got my point across Happy writing to you!
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I am impressed...my first sonnet was certainly no where near so good as this. Even your topic (love, cliche as that may sound) is typical of sonnets. The form is not only correct, but also tight and strong. The turn between your octet and sestet is subtle, yet very well done. It's such a nice soft turn, the reader almost doesn't realized you've pulled a one-eighty until the couplet at the end Nicely done.
The first word of your piece should be, I believe, wherefore with an e at then end. Although I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. I also think your word nightlong should be night-long. In your line "But hidden from the light -- lost my life too" I suggest a comma before too...it's a kind of general norm for using words like too and also...so "lost my life, too." Not that you have to do that, just thought I'd bring it to your attention.
The only other thing I can say is this: This poem is an absolutely beautiful example of a CLASSIC sonnet. It sounds like it belongs to the era of Shakespeare and Marlowe more than it fits in with the 21st century. I don't think that this makes this particular piece any weaker, but something to think about for future writes is trying a sonnet in modern times, modern language, and modern themes. Use slang if you need to Set it in New York or Las Vegas or whatever. Modern sonnets are almost a whole new genre...they have completely different problems associated with them, and they are definitely not all about love or mortality, as classical ones seem to be. I wrote one about a Boston fisherman, for instance. They're often harder to write, but the challenge makes them extremely rewarding. Just thought I'd put the bug in your bonnet
Anyways, this was absolutely excellent. Best of luck in the contest and with all of your future writing! -
Intriguing
An intriguing piece written with mystery, love, and aspirations for acknowledement. How many of us look for acceptance and validation in a world that's selfish and callous.
A nicely expressed poem that stirr's the emotions and captivates the heart
Edited on Dec 01, 5:41 p.m. because ''. -
Wow. This is really good. I love the emotion and meaning in this piece. Very nicely done. Good luck in the contest and keep on writing!
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kirbyramsey:
thank you for your comments.
I take it that you are unfamiliar with the form being used. However I do appreciate your ideas.
I will say in brief that your suggestions would introduce technical errors in the poem but that asside I will comment on your ideas as if this was not a petrarchan sonnet.
Line 2 can not end with 'dawn' for a non-technical reason.
"dawn" in this poem is a metaphore for change. If I said each day's new dawn, that would suggest something is changing every single day, which is antithematic, as this poem is about an ongoing state of escapism rather than a series of discreet events. (in any event it violates the rhyme scheme)
line 9 would no longer be iambic pentameter if I followed your suggestion. This is merely a technical consideration. However themeatically. The word "supposed" does not mean the same thing as "meant". "meant" implies purpose. "supposed" is weaker.. it merely implies a presumption or a rule.
"I did not know what I was meant to do" means.. "I do not know what my destiny is."
I didn't know what I was supposed to do" merely means... "I didn't know the best course or the expected course of action ".
however.. this poem is about escapism. The problem is not a lack of knowledge of what is best to do, but a fear of change.
If we "were meant" to do something, that suggests we WILL do it. If we are merely "supposed" to do it. Then... it is merely expected that we will try.
You are supposed to buckle your seat belt.
You were not meant to buckle your seat belt.
thanks for your ideas.
David -
all around good poem,here is a thought that might help you
line two the word break,use dawn,
line nine the words did not,use didn't,word ment,use suppose
this might help if you want to use these words--kirby -
I am just going to say i really liked it
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not familiar at all with the poetic form which you've written, but only to add you've created beautiful images and though I understand that specific word choices, as well as syllable-count are requirements of this form, the "D" and "L" sounds pulsing through this poem were lovely.
really an excellent poem, David, and you have to be proud of this one!
Jo
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shoes: thank you for your feedback.
many readers feel that lines which stand out by there modernness relative to the rest of a poem, actually leap out as being more memorable. Shakespeare did this a lot.
I'm sorry for you that this line felt weaker, but I can't please everyone.
"a life that lives" is a polyptoton. multiple variations of the same based word used in a single sentence. It is a technique used to create a more musical quality.
As for being redundant. I dont understand. Which part is redundant? I am not disagreeing with you, but I dont see it. Can you reword this in a more compact way, and mean the same thing?
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A very enjoyable read, and faithful to form as well. By way of constructive remarks: (1)The eighth line, not being in the more archaic english used throughout the rest of the poem, seems a bit weaker, which is problematic as it is a key expression. (2) The phrase "a life that lives" seemed a bit redundant, and cused me to stumble in reading it.
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You've completely and utterly made my day simply by having written this poem. You see, I love Petrarchan sonnets and yours is the first that I've run into on this site. And you see, yours is also a very good one. You've told a wonderful story, kept your syallable count and your rhyme scheme. Fantastic. Bravo! For a first time I am very impressed. Write on, dear poet, write on!
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cexee: thank you for your comments. I have thick skin. I don't get frustrated easily. I never assume that someone's criticism is unfounded, but I also don't assume that everyone's criticism is on the mark. I dont spend hours and hours on a poem simply to cave in and change it because someone doesn't like a line.
Ultimately I must use my own judgement.
this last line employs 'polyptoton'
notice the previous 'so hid' 'but hidden' and finally 'no hiding'.
puts stress on the important words 'HIDing' 'Dawn' 'Dreams' 'Shown'...
It also uses alliteration 'hiDing' 'THe Dawn' 'THat Dreams'
I consider SHOW to be a powerful verb, as it means PROVE or demonstrate.
And contains a volta, transforming dawn from something to fear into something to seek out and dreams from being an escape mechanism to being a mechanism for personal salvation. Finally it ends the poem on a hopeful and uplifting note. It says.. pursue your dreams whereas the first 12 lines of the poem were all about tears and fear and running away.
Thanks for your supportive words.
David
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wow alot of critisism was made here. I too have only written one Petrachan sonnet. After writing my first sonnet ever I wanted to learn more kinds of sonnets so I picked this one. For it being your first you did get the form down correctly and that makes it acceptable plus I actually understood what was being said. Now for those who dont understand is probably because they dont know what this feels like or been in a situation comparable as this. But as time goes on and you grow with being a sonnet writer your poetry will improve. Like in any situation "practice makes perfect" so no one should tell you how you should write especially being your first at something especially when it comes to emotions. I hope you understand what I'm saying. There is always room for improvement in poetry but that is why we keep writing. I have never gone back weeks or even months later realizing that i could have written it better because i like to see how much better i am now than i was a few years ago. So this being said just keep writing and dont let anyone frustrate you when they tell you to change a line or its "weak"....think about it
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p.s.
I am bookmarking this!
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Awesome
I really loved this , its really good , Storm -
crystaldust: so many applauds! I am very flattered. Thank you for your compliments. I'll use those to promote this poem.
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ecrivain01: I appreciate your critique. You interpret this poem differently than I do, which is of course perfectly fine. Your suggestion does not say what I want this poem to say. The meaning is not the meaning I intend.
I would not to presume to interpret a poem for you. I disagree but I do however appreciate your ideas, and hope you wont take my decision to use the words I use as an indication that I have not considered your experience and thought heavily on the changes you suggest.
Incidentally you have used tetrameter in your substitute lines which I'm sure is unintentional as this poem is pentameter.
You also can not reveal something that is already known.
the dawn can not be revealed: the speaker KNOWS it is there already. He is SCARED of it.
The dreams are not merely revealing the dawn (change).. they are pushing that dawn.. over and over and over every single night of the speakers life.
Shadows are not ignorant of light. They actively hide from it.
The speaker purports to know how shadows feel for his whole life. He was not suprised to look up and see the dawn. He decided to finally face it rather than run away from it.
The final act is the not hiding, rather than the showing.
The volta, is that the dawn scaring away the speaker every morning of his life, is the very same dawn he has been dreaming about so earnestly but fearful of.
anyway... thanks for your recommendations.
Cheers. -
Well, I suppose that shows how much a poem can seem different to different readers. And I don't know of any specific way to change it right now (having commented on thirty poems in about 24 hours has diminished my editing skills for poetry presently).
And perhaps the 3 slow syllables (difficult to pronounce precisely) is why, though I'm not certain.
But an excellent poem still. -
Twofeetunder: it might be the words together "truth's bright pain". Structurally I believe if feels like the difficulty I have getting out of bed in the morning.. But this is form following substance and intended.
3 very slow syllables which are also somewhat difficult to pronounce.
ironically line 10 was another reader's favorite line.
Well.. if you have any specific idea's maybe I'll be inspired. But I've gone through about 15 different ways to do that line and none of them leap out as being better (but 14 leap out as being worse). I think prudence says leave it rather than simply guess.
Cheers! -
ok...I write sonnets in pentameter, in couplets all throughout, but I don't know the difference between a petrarchan and an English one...hope you can tell me!
As for this piece, all I can say is...it rocks!
This has just the right amount of mysticism I am looking for in each sonnet I read. Keep it up!
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I understand what you're saying. It's still a very weak line. What you have done is make the classical error of most beginning poets (not saying that you're a beginning poet, since I don't know you well enough to know), but it's the classic error they make. You assume that because something means this or that to you, it's going to mean this or that to somebody else. Sadly, it doesn't work that way. What you do is relegate your poem to second level status when it could have been top level, simply because you cling to a line that you love so much, without any regard to the fact that it is deleterious to your poem. That's doubly sad since you are a very good writer. However, many times doing that and your poems are going to suffer greatly. I tell you this simply because I prefer to see you succeed rather than fail, and writing things that mean something specifically to you without regard to what they might mean to others is a one way trip to poetic oblivion. I would prefer that you not take that route. It's all the more sad when this could be a fabulous poem if you changed that line. Weak lines are not any way to end a poem. I've judged a number of poetry contests over the years (all local, of course), and I've been picking poems for publication in magazines for years (online and print) and it would be a very sad thing for me to be faced with a poem like this. I might love the poem except for that last line, but I would have to reject it out of hand simply because of that line. The line is totally passive. If you wanted to indicate what you are saying this means, you should have used revealed rather than shown. This is what you should have said:
In realms of dreams, my heart's unhealed,
And hidden from the light, my life's lost too.
To be with you, my love, and dream again:
To find the dawn those dreams revealed.
I understand your reasons. I don't think they are wise. -
crystaldust 29-11-05 22:09
A beautiful, but beautiful, sonnet - Petrarchan too! - davidz. This is a real gem, precisely thought out, meticulously rhymed and measured. And a love poem finally - well done. Oh, I like this one very much. I hope you won the gold for this. Joy -
the couplet also has one other meaning I forgot to mention. And it is the reason I listed this poem in the HOPE category.
The couplet suggests that the dreams the speaker is so attached to and afraid to lose each morning, would become a reality if the speaker would only face the daylight/truth.
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ecrivain: thank you for your comments. I disagree with your interpretation of the last line but I appreciate that you made a specific constructive suggestion for improve it.
I find the last line to be powerful and dramatic. This could simply be a misconception on my part. Perhaps my feelings may change in the future. I do however believe that artistic merit is not merely subjective so I will try to objectively defend my interpretation.
You have not given a specific technical or artistic criticism for your opinion about the last line so I can't respond directly.
However I can explain what the line means to me:
Dawn is a metaphore for "change" in this poem, but it also implies the termination of nighttime dreams (thus something the speaker fears).
The dawn that dreams have shown is the fantasy that the speaker who lives in dreams has dreamed about. But in hiding from real life change the speaker will never be with the object of his fantasy.
Thus the speaker concludes:
To be with you, my love, and dream again:
No hiding from the dawn that dreams have shown.
"deam again" in the 2nd last line refers to bona fide plans or dreams about the future real life. Rather than the sleeping dreams of nighttime.
The only hope to be with the object of the speakers desires and truly escape loneliness, the speaker must stop trying escape from reality.
'Dawn' does not represent the object of the speakers desires. Dawn is something the speaker must overcome. The speaker fears dawn. "dawn brings darkness in".
Cheers! -
good job, all in all
This is a truly fabulous poem, except for the last line. I'm impressed. These lines in particular, are pure genius:
A life that lives asleep dies when awake,
But in the lull of night no tears can tell.
The last line is weak, and was a great disappointment to me:
To be with you, my love, and dream again:
No hiding from the dawn that dreams have shown.
(No hiding lest dawn sadly dream alone)
or something similar. That last line is so weak compared to the rest of this poem, and ending a poem with a very weak line is really a mistake. -
I'm not quite sure what I didn't like, though that wasn't it. The wording in the second half of the line just doesn't seem to fit well with the rest of the poem (to me). You don't have to edit, but I'm jut sitting here wondering why I don't like how the line sounds. For me, it just made me pause, pull out of the poem, and have to bring myself back in, and of course that isn't a good thing to have while reading a poem.
I'm off for now, but I'll be back tonight.... -
twofeetunder: oops.. I replied to your comment on this poem, but forgot to click reply under your message after I applauded you. so please come read the reply directly on the poems comment page. Cheers!
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twofeetunder: a petrarchan sonnet is an Italian sonnet named after the famous Italian poet named Petrarch to invented it (or made it popular). When written with the english language it is usually iambic pentameter. The difference between this and an english sonnet is as follows:
An english sonnet uses 3 quatrains + a couplet. With a rhyming scheme typically of ababcdcdegeggg.
The petrarchan sonnet uses an octave + a sestet. With a rhyming scheme of :
abbaabba cdcdcd
or
abbaabba cdecde
or
abbaabba cdedce
Since the english language has a distinct lack of rhyming words scheme such as abba cddc in the octave are common.. and effectively break the octave into 2 quatrains. It is still considered a petrachan however.
This poem uses AbbAacca where A and a are near rhymes.. thus not quite abbacddc but between that and abbaacca.
The feeling should be different from an english sonnet. But as I've said this is my first petrarchan. I am doubtful that this is a prime example to show the difference between a petrarchan and an english sonnet because I think this poem has an english sonnet feel, but not so light and fluffy.. it feels more serious to me.
I also wish you know what it was about line 10 you dont like. I have no specific intention to change anything right now. I've revised this poem a lot in the last few days since I wrote it. However.. if I do change it before you close the contest you are running, I will IM you.
line 10 uses internal rhyme. and perhaps you dont like that.. but I can not really speculate if that is what you are noticing. I intentionally used it because I think it creates a sense of urgency that I want there.. "the sun is comming out quick hide!" - "away the day"
Cheers! -
Hmm, I'm not familiar with this form of sonnet. Do you think you could write out a quick explanation of how it's different from the English and Italian sonnets, that'd be lovely.
I like this poem dearly. It is an excellent poem. The imagery builds and creates vivd pictures. I like how line three predicts line twelve. The diction fits well, appropriate for the piece. I'm not sure why, but for some reason line ten just doesn't sound quite right to me. I don't know what sounds wrong, but something in there just...I wish I knew what.
If you want to edit that line or other parts of the poem (and see how to make it better) do so and inform me within about the next day.
Two Feet Under. -
great job!
this was so beautifully written and your diction flowed so well! the metaphors are fabulous and my favorite line is: "So hid away the day from truth's bright pain". excellent read!!! -
excellent
i am not at all skilled in sonnets - i have yet to write one. in fact, for the last few years i have dedicated myself to learning how to write haiku.
i love the images you have employed in this heart-warming poem...you show a maturity as a poet in your use of language.
i only have one nit-pick here and that is with the very first word of the poem "Wherefor". it seems to me to be an archaic word & it almost stopped me reading the poem because i thought the rest of the language in the poem was going to be old as well. "oh no", i said to my dog, "this poem is going to be full of cliches." fortunately, what followed was an example of a good poet at work.
all the very best,
myron. -
great
Great image shown in this poem. Excellent write. Loved every word. It was very enjoyable to read. Fabulous job! Applaud necessary
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Philogos: yes. that is what I meant to say.
"Through sleep I've wandered dreams where love seemed real
Against life's loneliness: What hopes within?
Who flees the day if dawn brings darkness in? "
What chance is there really of solving life's problems (loneliness being an example of one) if one is living in a dream world (or an escape) rather than facing reality. If one is so determined to escape reality (via drugs, or perhaps literal sleeping) that life itself is ruined and you will be driven to run away from that which you ultimately would rather be improved.
the image here is someone literally sleeping and dreaming and then wishing the sun would not come up and wake them from their dreams in the morning because their life sucks.
dawn is a metaphor for change. light is truth. day is life. dreams are escape. sleep is inaction. night is the lie we tell ourselves to hide from truth. wells are where we can hide from the daylight.
love is love. loneliness are problems. hope is hope. shadows are things which avoid the light/truth .. escapists or denialists.
and finally in the end.. dreams are really dreams (but only if you face the light).
Edited on Nov 28, 3:37 p.m. because ''. -
I've only written on of them and I can tell you that they are not easy to do. I think that you have got the form down just about perfectly and your rhyme and rhythm are very good. The imagery is also excellent. My only criticism would be of the obscurity of 'What hopes within? Who flees the day if dawn brings darkness in?' I take it that you are saying that it is pointless to live in a dream world and avoid the reality of daylight, but I'm not sure. This is a very good poem and an excellent attempt at a style that defeats the best of us. vic
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you did a really good job on this. a lot of imagery. good job.
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