on the snow covered bridge
others leave their footprints
as you once did
I waved more than you
so long ago
so long ago
Andrew Hide
11~11~2005
Author notes
Written November 11th, 2005
In a list
What did you think
Comments
1 - 21 of 21
-
This is a wonderfulform you have shared, I have never attempted it, but you have presented it well and I like the format and overall outcome of it. Thank you for sharing, have a wonderful day, Ken IBT
-
Enjoyed this lovely poem, as well as all the comments and information given below. Very educational. Taught me a bit.
-
Nostalgia oozes from this poem, and settles in my heart; the repetition in the last two lines really works for me. I've never written a sedoka and I find this discussion very helpful.
I think "snow covered" should be hyphenated because it's used as a compound adjective here.
-
New to this but beauty penned indeed well done!
-
I adore this piece ... the imagery within the lines,
"I waved more than you
so long ago
so long ago,"
is exquisite.
I could read on and on and on.
Beautiful!
-
Andrew,
The images are crisp and your poem has a good depth of feeling. Interesting change of perspective in the second katauta. I do have a question about form of this Sedoka. This may be a stupid question but I use Shadowpoetry.com as a source of reference on form poetry this is what they say about Sedoka:
The Sedoka is an unrhymed poem made up of two three-line katauta with the following
syllable counts: 5/7/7, 5/7/7. A Sedoka, pair of katauta as a single poem, may address the
same subject from differing perspectives.
Katauta is an unrhymed three-line poem the following syllable counts: 5/7/7.
I noticed your syllable count is different, am I missing something?
Thanks, Dennis -
-
Thank you Dennis,
You haven't missed something, it is shadow poetry which haven't really grasped the true aspect. It is a very good site for form poetry but it describes Japanese style poetry (haiku,tanka,sedoka,etc.) with a poor understanding.
First of all, a note on the form sedoka, sedoka fell into disuse in the eighth century as it evolved into the tanka. As it wasn't until the ninth century that Japan started writting down poetry in any reasonable amounts very few classical pieces remain. It was a form which used two katauta written two lines, each being the length of a single easy breath. One would show a scene or event, the second would show the same scene but either from a different perspective/view or the same scene but with a shift in time. As the literature levels increased they started using word play to belend the two katauta together and the tanka was born.
A note on syllable use in Japanese froms. The Japanese language is based on a very different structure to English and indeed most other languages. In English we have a natural rhythm which we don't notice when speaking, we tend to talk in iambic patterns using stressed and unstressed syllables. It impossible to write a sonnet in the Japanese language and as impossible for us to write in English to the Japanese rhythm. In Japan due to their language being character based each character has its own sound unit simular to a syllable but much shorted and far more information in it, an onji. (Usually one vowel and one constenant sometimes two). When they speak or write they have a naturl rhythm of five, seven, five onji as the piece draws to a close the final two lines have seven, seven to declare the section has ended, as in the end of a paragraph.
So when a Japanese poet writes the fall into this same patern (without thought) as it is how their language flows. If you've ever read E.E.Cumming's work and how he switches syntax for effect, it would sound silly if you spoke like this and that is how Japanese sounds to them if this pattern isn't followed.
A note on forms, haiku, hokku are written in one line down the page, maximum length, one easy breath. Sedoka, tanka, mondo and simular styles are written in two lines down the page, each a single breath. When we first started translating Japanese poetry into English, (around the begining of the twenith century), it would be translated directly then, due to the sentence structure being jumbled as we would write it, they then got western poets to rearrange the words to make poetical scense. As the lines were too long to write across the page we broke them down into how we heard the rhythm, 5-7-5-7-7, as western poets at the time they looked to their own understanding of poetry which was syllabicly structured and thought this was the same in Japan. Hense the incorrect rule of syllable counts in these forms was created. Basho, believed to be the greatest haiku/hokku writer wrote with anything between four and twenty-two onji but always in one single easy breath.
The structure for writting these poems is image based and are not written as a form in the western sense. (as we have come to learn with better understanding of the language and how it works.)
For further reading I would recommend ahapoetry for definitions. Shadowpoetry is good for western poetry but for more detailed information you need to go to specialist sites.
I hope this helps Dennis,
Andrew -
i am pre-empting here and look forward to Andrew's reply .. but for me ... i say forget the syllable count ! as long as it doesnt, as a whole, exceed the maximum less is often better ...
mind you ... i have to say ::: cough ::: i never even looked it was a sedoka (which i know nothing about) ... ::: sigh ::: ... but i stay with my initial feeling - forget syllable count - so far in haiku and tanka i have found it is not a strict ruling for english .. unlike cinquain ..
-
-
When Adelaide Crapsey created the cinquain it was an structure based on tanka for western writters.
Andrew -
-
yes .. i read that her cinquain came about from japanese poetry - i wonder if she still lived whether syllable count would still be so strict ... cinquain has not gone anywhere since she created it, has it ? (now i think, i am missing something)
i love cinquain too ... heh ... i must admit to finding the construct of syllable count, constrictive ... but sometimes the 'disicipline' is an enjoyable challenge ... i often muse that 5-7-5 haiku written where every word works and is necessary would be the ultimate to write ... (one day, one day) ...
-
-
-
-
lovely shift in time ... i do like repetition, although tricky in short pieces ? i did a little rejigging (not much)
as you once did, so long ago
I waved more than you
so long ago
if the syllable count/line length is too long - i quite like
as you once did, long ago
i waved more than you
so long ago
dropping the first 'so' extends that time, i think ...
i did think that it works very well without line one too but in subsequent thinkings, snow adds to the long, dark winter and longing ...
its a lovely piece ...
>>>Gina -
-
Thank you Gina, I've always liked this one but being the author I know the thoughts that lie below the surface. I'm not sure how this comes over to the reader, which is why I added it to the readers list at haijin's retreat. Your thoughts have given me soe more food for thought which is what I was after. Thankyou.
I wish I could show volume in this piece, if I read this aloud the second 'so long ago' I say quieter than the first as if wandering into thought.
Andrew -
-
so could the 'volume' be tackled in the amount of so ... in so long ago ... long ago / so long ago /so, so long ago ...
actually in re reading it yet again ... its so very sad - i waved more than you ...
waving, in the first thought, means goodbye ... yet to wave more than another is in excitement at seeing - perhaps meeting on the bridge - coming together ...
luverly ...
-
-
-
This reminds me of blowing kisses at a loved one at the airport earlier this year. A wonderful poem that pulls at the heartstrings and loosens the memories within, Andrew. So soft-spoken and so beautiful.
~ Nicolette
-
An uncomfortable feeling. One always feels the loss more than the other.
Beautiful subtle way of capturing the emotion.
-
I've tried this genre - it's difficult. Your work fills all the requirements - masterfully. It's great.
-
Wonderful picture, wonderful write. Normally I'm not too crazy about real short poems, but this one was so full of feeling, it just grabbed me. Brought back a lot of memories as well, which I think all of us have hidden somewhere in our hearts.
Wonderful piece of art!
Love, Ostara -
So long ago....so long ago
This is a wonderful poem. -
lovely feeling of someone special, gone and a distant memory ... the realisation you waved more and i had to smile at the sad 'so long ago' repeated which tied back to the wave for me and as meaning sunk in, brought me back to the sad .... so nicely done >>> GINA
-
Another great work as always- I love this one- it has such a deep meaning, arises so many different feelings and pictures- well done
-
I am not so quickly lyricall about poems but this one does stroke my heart. And than that wonderful picture what a poem in itself is. Yummie, it is the same subject I discussed this evening with a friend. Some sceneries or images don't fade they stay with you all your life
Edited on Nov 11, 4:25 p.m. because ''.
Adding your comment:
1 - 21 of 21
