... for Mahmud Kianush ...
the heart sends many questions to the stars on sullen wings
sometimes a subtle answer pulses back on silent wings
i’ve heard that when you stretch your naked arms in quiet prayer
your flesh is turned to whispers sent to god on silken wings
benevolence has painted vivid portraits full of life
a father’s love is color for the brush’s swirling wings
your words will leave an imprint that will echo in the halls
where freedom dances tongue to tongue on bright desultory wings
the poet shares the human fate of joining dust and ash
yet phoenix-like his legacy may fan with solar wings
although the dreamer feels estranged among the world of men
you never were a stranger to the ones with silver wings
like you zahhar has longed to touch what language can’t define
a place beyond the shadow-fall of dark and solemn wings
Author notes
featured in:
Art Arena's World Poems: www.artarena.force9.co.uk/thomas1.htm
if you're curious who Mahmud Kianush is: www.artarena.force9.co.uk/mahmud_kianush.htm
to learn more about the ghazal: allpoetry.com/Column/784848/all=1
Written June 8th, 2005
In a list
What did you think
Comments
1 - 70 of 70
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We return to the star dust from whence we came.
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You make the ghazal look easy but from personal experience I find them a huge challange. Of course this is ghazal #126 for you, so you may recite them in your sleep too! Beautifully worded piece. Best wishes...
~genie~ -
i love that poem it is an inspiration to man kind
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Cool! I think this is a very pretty and fascinating write! I was happy to read this! I am definitely interested in learning more about who Mahmud Kianush is!=)
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This was absolutely wonderful. I loved the flow and expression. I really enjoyed reading this and think you have a great talent. thank you for sharing.
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i like this peive, very well done, keep up the great job, the stanza were written very well and when i was reading it my eyes just glided ascross word for word, it was very nice...i loved it, come and check mine out too ok...plz and thanx....
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NoIQ: oh alright.
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LOLOLOL -- Yikes Erin! I still feel I need some work on the traditional schemes. If you replace the matla's historic rhyme with phonetic parallelism, think what that will do to to complicate the radif (which, of course, is supposed to set up the rhyme) -- LOLOL. Talk about requiring some extra thought. MAYBE, I'll try that exercise in due time, but I think for someone like me with considerably less than 126 ghazals to his credit, it may be prudent to direct my immediate efforts to the traditional forms LOL. Good God -- I hate to think what you might try to do with a paradelle
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NoIQ: when you do, i hope you'll consider exploring some phonetic parallelism other than rhyme. i'm curious to see what sorts of effects alternative schemes will have on the ghazal.
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I have never read Mahmud Kianush. You deserve credit and applause simply by identifying a very very interesting new poet -- his background alone makes me want to find some examples.
With respect to the poem, you definitely have courage and talent Erin -- ghazals are not for everyone, and if I am reading this correctly this is your 126th?! I have toyed with them, but 126 -- that IS impressive. I would have loved to take Aashik's class on them this summer, but I didn't even notice it until after the deadline closed.
One reason I don't do many ghazals is because the obsessive rhyming matla is made SOOO much more complex by the need for the Radifs -- it takes an incredible amount of time to construct one of these babies. Then you also have to work to ensure that the matla does not render the whole poem "unpleasant" - we are borrowing a very different linguistic element from the Urdu and their native Arab and Indian dialects, after all. Your ghazal though easily overcomes those obstacles. I wonder how much of the AP community really appreciates what it must have required to construct this piece. Nonetheless, it is a great gift you impart to the community by continually introducing it to this and other less-known obsessive forms.
The poem has probably inspired me to write one myself sometime in the next few weeks, and for that I also probably owe you thanks.
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I've never seen this form before - perhaps you've invented it yourself.
If so, well done - the repetition works.
The flow is also virtually perfect.
Nice job.
Robin. -
a great poem here, keep on writing.
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very very nice. have never heard of this person before..im assuming the use of wing's repeatedly has something to do with him/her...i dont know. nice job with writing this. a good flow overall. enjoyed. was worth the read.
Blu -
Wow. thats all i can say about this piece. it is extremely beautiful and well written. quite possible one of the best pieces i've read on this site. great, great job. you have true and amazing talent. your background goes lovely with your poem by the way, really bringing out the beauty of your words.
Best wishes and luck,
Y2Shaggy
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Amazing
Very beautiful. One of the best I have read on this site. I really like the way the return to the metaphor of "wings" ties the whole poem together. Keep up the wonderful work. -
This was soooo beautiful, I could only wish to write something as good as this. You certainly have a talent on these ghazals. But I am learning. Anyways I love the write. Keep it up! Stacey
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crystaldust 18-06-05 21:43
Because you have noted this as personal and dedicated it to someone, I hope it is enough if I say that, again, you have created a beautiful poem. It is so fragile, so delicate that speaking it aloud might almost blow it away. Thank you for the beauty and for sharing it. -
beautifully written ... also LOVED the back ground and border ... it really set off your words
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I read this a few times , just to make sure that I did not miss a thing Each time I enjoyed it more...and even though I loved the entirety , my very favorite are the lines" the poet shares the human fate........
Reenie
PS. My applause little square does not want to cooperate
If I remember later I will come back to applaud , as this write definitely deserves it
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Lovely poem.I love the way you repeated wigns throughout the poem very well done absolutely love this.
I really like that part in the last paragraph where you say,
'like you zahhar has longd to touch what language can't define
a place beyond the shadow-fall of dark and solemn wings'
good work the message this poem gives is very strong -
perhaps i do not have quite the intellect that you look for in a comment, and perhaps im not nearly knowledgeable enough to try to critique anything about this peice, but i would once again say that you have a striking talent that i hope takes you many wonderful places.
~*~*Rin*~*~ -
I've heard lots of ghazals in Hindi when I spent days at my friend's house, though I never understood them. They seemed to be full of mystic grace. Now I see why though. Very beautiful & eloquent. I think I might get into this form soon.
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Very talented
I love the wings theme..and I love how you wove it throughout your poem. It has a lot of great imagery and feeling. Great job!
-jenna -
Ah. I think it's beautiful, your effort of combining the art of east and west, be it the Krishna's bansuri, or the infamous ghazal.
i kind of do have a reply for for Krishna, about pseudonym for his name for Kianush, kinda, after the separation of pakistan and india, stars and performers of a region would change their name to a hindu or a muslim name according to their region they were performing in, for obvious reasons.
for example dilip kumar of india, hes still know as the famous dilip, when his real name is yusuf khan. notice, the name changes from muslim to a hindu name. this kinda thing happened throughout india and pakistan since the separation till the late 70's.
About the ghazal,
I haven't seen a english ghazal before, but this comes pretty close. I understand how much work it traversing a piece of culture and art. Personally, i couldn't imagine a ghazal in english, till now. This is indeed a great accomplishment.
Ok being nicey nicey is over, lets get down to critiquing,
Know that i know have experience with ghazal through my father, who is constantly listening to them, and hates all other music. So take my criticism more as suggestions or ignore them if you want.
first, ghazal as i see it, has to relate to people, your poetic extremes, are beautiful as they be, wont relate to people. i think thy style is hard and very complicated even for the intellectual joe who doesn't want to think that much but still would like some kicks of some addicting poetry, like the linguist said your not writing another bible. So just keep in mind, all of us are not poets.
Second, when i hear i ghazal, i think the emotion your supposed to feel is rather like a high of deep intellectual and emotion thoughts. It needs to be addicting, and should give the high and passion, that you always feel.
Thirdly, topics are important, till this day i have never heard of a ghazal this is not emo, i know a lot of poets try to experiment other aspects and moving away from emo poetry because thats what they started from and they feel the need to grow. but your breaking tradition, this way. and almost all middle eastern, even all asian culture is nothing but tradition. it will also make the poem look, feel, sound more like a ghazal. Oh repeat the first two lines at the end, cuz that hows its usually sang.
It should be like presenting a thought, a sher, a nail, then the series of other thoughts, other shers, thats hammering the the original thought in the audience, and lastly the original thought again, the first sher again, as the last driving end blow.
I am generalizing tons from this one poem, but those are kinda my ideas about a ghazal, again, i am no expert or newhere close to one.
oh yess, ghazal are meant to be sung in a addicting almost in a high and drunk tone, i think it would be cool if you make some melodies of it and try singing them your self.
As for everything else, meter & form, its perfect.
I personally dont listen to ghazals, except a counting few, so i cant speak for it,
and you have more idea of it,...
neway, hope i was some help. good luck.
~Ashraf.
Edited on Jun 17, 10:05 p.m. because ''. -
Excellent
I especially enjoyed the first couplet but I have to be honest and say that I had to read up on what this form was. Connecting couplets to make a necklace I found extremely clever. Delightful
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ok
I liked this poem.
You have real talent -
great read
This was a beautiful poem. I liked how you categorized different people and things into different wing types. Extremely discriptive in its own little way. The thought of the wings was pure brilliance on the behalf of the poet. All of the elements in this poem combined (some in which I don't know how to describe) create a poem that you can truly start to love. -
bravo
very good job. you have a good instinct for the flow and rhythm of the poem. this has a lot of emotion involved in it, and writing it about somebody makes it much more personal. great job, and thanks for sharing this piece. keep up the good work and always keep writing -
very well done
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this is a beautifully written piece just brimming with emotion. the flow is good and the rhyme solid great job
love and light
blaze -
I did know any thing about Mahmud Kianush. You have ignited my interest. It was intriguing to note that he wrote a poem, Through the Window of Taj Mahal, under the pseudonym Pradip Uma Shankar, 1971. I wonder why he adopted this pseudonym.
Coming to the ghazal itself, I loved the suggestion that the response to our questions comes back to us in a subtle manner from the cosmic force. I thought that the second line in the second couplet was convoluted. You are the expert. Much of your poem made sense after I read few poems from "Of Birds and Men."
Krishna
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Hm, silence isn't always a bad sign. For what I understood he is a spiritual man, I don't think he'd be offended with that couplet, it has a wonderful imagery and deep spiritual meaning
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well mahmud kianush is putting together a broadcast series on the history of the ghazal. it will be aired in farsi throughout the middle east on bbc in a few months. somehow he came across my work and decided to include an interview of me (i make a terrible interviewee) as a ghazal poet for a portion of the series that deals with the ghazal's dissemination into other cultures. he had me read two of my ghazals for the broadcast, though i don't know if he'll use both of those recordings in the broadcast. what he plans to do is start off with me reading it and then fading it out into a farsi translation of the poem. i picked "Vapors" as the poem i would share for this purpose and read this during the phone interview (he lives in london). a couple of weeks after the interview he contacts me wanting me to read him "Dilution" (allpoetry.com/Poem/942190/all=1) for another recording.
turns out "Dilution" is an extremely special ghazal to me, written to someone i cared deeply about after she died from colon cancer in 2002... something about this touched me very deeply and i was moved to "return" this back to him in a way i hoped would be as meaningful to him. this is the intent behind this poem.
so far i haven't heard back from him regarding this poem. i'm a little worried that i might have inadvertently offended him via my lack of knowledge of iranian customs. a pakistani friend of mine told me that the second couplet of this poem could be a bit much... i'm hoping he'll see how it relates, however, to material from a book of poems he sent me called "Of Birds and Men".
Edited on Jun 17, 1:22 because ''. -
When I read a poem all I see at the first read, is the emotion it may (or not)reflects. Then I savour the words, travel with the thoughts I read on each line. If it is written in a form I know, I look to the technical aspects at my second read.
I've read some of your Ghazals, still want to write a poem using this form, but still can only comment about the content
Here what I see is your admiration and deep care -do I dare to say love? - to this person. Your feelings and thoughts about him are very touching and you show them with the elegance of a caring heart. Beautiful!
Kisses,
Mari
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Hi a lovely poem, the rep on wings worked there is always a danger on this type of rep but it did not jarr, great flow and lovely flow, this should do very well and I wish you all the best,loved it, Di
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I guess I over generalized, but by 'everyone', I meant 'poets'.
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A well written poem.. u have done a creative job in here.. Good that u featured.. giving us all a chance to read,.,.. Thanks for sharing.. good luck . good day
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aashik yet again: was thinking about your statement in relation to the penultimate line, "isn't this something we all strive for?"
when i pondered your thought... i had these images go through my mind:
plastic blonds babbling on their cell phones in mercades benzes at 80mph in traffic
skanky males bar-surfing hoping to catch a wild sexy wave into morning
old women in cafes gossiping about their neighbors and relatives with the most unbelievable statements of acrid judgement
...and more...
so... well... no
Edited on Jun 12, 11:40 p.m. because ''. -
aashik again: i used a frame rhyme in this piece. the "s" and the "l" in the primary accent just before the end-line refrain. i didn't concern myself with consonants starting off the secondary accent of the following syllable. i think the effect turned out to be pretty striking...and...these are words and images that just wouldn't be possible in any rhyme scheme available in english with "wings".
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aashik: i'm bending the "rules" a bit. i wrote 125 of these in "perfect rhyme", and i'll very likely never do that again. english prosody is just not cut out for making this the sole method of leading into the end-line refrain of a ghazal. other methods should be explored to see what effect they will have... i hope poets that are well studied in english prosody will eventually rise to the challenge.
Edited on Jun 12, 11:48 p.m. because ''. -
Are you allowed to use anything else other than perfect rhyme in the syllable before the refrain? Please tell me, it might be useful for my class.
Anyway, this is brilliant...the inspiration is clear and it's a great tribute.
"like you zahhar has longed to touch what language can’t define"...isn't this something we all strive for?
Great work! -
Wow this is simply an amazing piece. You did a wonderful job. I can tell the feelings and emotion came directly from your heart and soul. You are obviously an incredibly talented writer and individual. You certainly have a knack for writing. This piece simply inspired me. You are one among the greatest of great poets. You have a talented unlike no other's. Keep writing; the results are simply fantastic.
Edited on Jun 12, 10:10 p.m. because ''. -
well i think we already have the "English ghazal", but it's in its seminal state. if other poets who have a strong interest in the study and development of english prosody take this form seriously as i have and explore it deeply over the course of years, then in time the ghazal will become naturalized to english.
for the time being, however, i've only seen other english poets dabble in the ghazal, usually such that their end product is hardly recognizable as a ghazal, and for the purpose of bolstering their sense of self-worth as a poet moreso than for the purpose of exploring with an open mind and heart an emerging art form. -
I went to the site you posted at the begining of this page and read up on ghazal.
I've seen the name mention here and there and never understood the complexity of the form.
From what I gathered from your, thesis shall we say, ghazal is much like haiku, meaning, that its orgin does not conform to English grammar standards.
Am I to understand that since Ghazal being of arabic origin, its syllable stress makes it difficult to translate into English and also makes it difficult for a person to write ghazal in English? I guess that was more of a statement than a question.
I've been studying haiku and I understand that because haiku is of Japanese origin, syllable count is different in English. When haiku is translated from Japanese to English the syllable count gets lost in the translation. This is why we now have western haiku, which doesn't subscribe to the strict Japanese 5-7-5 format.
Can I assume the same about Ghazal?
Do you think that one day there will be a new poetic form of Ghazal known as Western Ghazal?
Just curious,
~Dee -
this is really good... i like it alot, and you finally posted a poem!!!! yay... anyway... though my thoughts are many, my words are few... so all i can say is this is a really good poem!!! lol
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I think the imagery is beautiful, but I do not like the form.
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when Nadir sayeth: I suppose we, as artists, all aspire to find that perfect write during our lifetimes that makes such a profound statement to the world as to the value of poetry as an artistic expression that it will echo in the hearts of each reader as a masterpiece...but until that perfect write comes to fruition, we write on...
i thought to myself: then i am blessed! because i have written one such poem! it is "The Lotus Tree", (allpoetry.com/Poem/733886/all=1) as you know. it is the relief of my enterprise, the culmination of my effort, even now, even a year after having written it. if anything, having had the extreme pleasure of having written such a thing inspires me to move on, to continue, to develop my craft as much as i may for the hope of one day being able to write such poems on demand.
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Hello Erin,
Let me apologize for being slightly tardy in commenting. I have been quite preoccupied for a day or two, but I suppose that is just an excuse, really, but it is however based on fact.
As to this poem, I am still absorbing all the content with considerable relish. I see within the poem the genuine attempt to alleviate the 'droneing' effect which so many English Ghazals tend to have because of the repeating refrain, and you have managed this quite well. I did not know, until you mentioned it, that Kianush's daughter was a painter, but the references to it in the poem jump out at me now that I know it.
I found the repeat usage of "on" and "with" as slightly distracting, but prepositional phrases are difficult to manage in any style of poetry and this form is perhaps one of the most demanding of any you have introduced me to, so those repetitions are at very least forgivable. My favorite couplet here was:
the poet shares the human fate of joining dust and ash
yet phoenix-like his legacy may fan with solar wings
I think it is a sad truth that many of the truly dedicated and respected poets do not achieve that highly sought after level of acceptance until their earthly days are through.
I suppose we, as artists, all aspire to find that perfect write during our lifetimes that makes such a profound statement to the world as to the value of poetry as an artistic expression that it will echo in the hearts of each reader as a masterpiece...but until that perfect write comes to fruition, we write on...
A most enjoyable read and one I shall continue to absorb and cogitate on, my friend...well presented.
Del -
ecrivain01: yes the end-line refrains can be a bit overwhelming. one problem with the ghazal as an english form is that it can create its own cliches! where they didn't even exist before writing or reading the poem! it's a challenge to find ways of wording things and leading into the end-line refrain that doesn't completely overwhelm my reader, or me for that matter. i think this piece may be one of my better ghazals on this regard. i think i may have avoided creating cliches (lexical zombies *moaaaaan scrabble lurch*) in this one.
as for the "beat", if i understand your meaning, it should be in iambic heptameter, but not overly rigid. i've read it out loud to myself quite a few times and it seems to flow in iambic heptameter without each line having the same exact "ring" to it. there's another thing to worry about with structured poetry... metrical cliches.
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JS: "Did you plan and polish it or just wing it?"
this is a tough question to answer because there are so many ways i tend to approach this form. some of the avenues of approach were definitely planned and polished, and others completely winged.
for instance, i spent a good deal of time scouring my copy of the OED2E for possible frame-rhymes to use just before "wings", and before that i spent a good deal of time finding out what i could about mr. kianush so i could hopefully write bayts (couplets) that pertained to him and his life on a personal level. for instance, you might find it interesting to learn in relation to the third couplet that his daughter is an acclaimed painter.
on the other hand, yes, the couplets themselves were winged. i would wait in a sort of half-meditative state until they came to me. i didn't force them or try to figure them out once they did, though i did try to avoid having to use any punctuation because this was part of the appearance i wanted for this poem, and i wanted a particular meter, so i worked to mold the inspirations to that meter. but, this part was also the product of winging it. i didn't know what the meter would be until the first line was written naturally. i knew what area i wanted to focus on next, and i waited for that inspiration to come to me rather than forcing it. i write a lot of my poems this way these days. -
YES
dUDE YOUR AMAZING. I like this vert much. this is absolutely brilliant. Stunning. HOORAY FOR YOU AND UR WORK. -
I like this very much. I have written a few ghazels, but yours is absolutely beautiful. I liked the "a father’s love is color for the brush’s swirling wings" line best. It says so much in such a short space of words. You have an inner beat that allows this piece to really flow. Love it.
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wow...
seemed awkward off the start, but on completion it struck me as really beautiful. ive reread it a couple times, and i can't really decide on a beat that I like, but thats not really a problem. really really good -
I am all for writing in forms, but I don't plan to try this one. All those repetitive same end words would drive me mad. I can deal with it in a villanelle, but this would be overkill for me. Anyway, you have handled it well, and it does work for what it is. Somebody up there commented on the first few lines feeling awkward, and I noticed that, but it didn't really slow me down much reading through this. Once I hit the beat it just carried me on through. Good job.
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An excellent poem. Did you plan and polish it or just wing it? You got your message across either way.
To my ears the repetitive use of the word wings works well except for the first couplet. Having two repetions here makes the start a little clumsy to my mind but at least it didn't stop me reading. Also if it wasn't there it wouldn't be a Ghazal would it?
BTW thanks for the links. I appreciate people who think ahead.
Jim S -
Beautiful Romantic and well written .i am a ghazal freak but write in mostly urdu ,Ill try to write one in English too .this was so tenderly rhymed and depicted so many soft and hazy feelings all at once .I am planning to learn more poetry forms and about ghazals toobut as much as time allows me .Wonderful to read this Ghazal
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You are brilliant. I feel so clumsy and inept when I attempt to comment on your work because it is true, true poetry and how absurd it is for me to make statements on form and such. I can only say that I was swept away as I always am by your work. (Thank you for adding the wonderful links.)
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Good
This is excellent. Way to go. Please continue writing and have a good day. -
This is a new form to me and I will go and read about it after commenting here.
From what I do know, this is a beautiful almost majestical poem that just sweeps you away in the cloud of its words. Quite stunning.vj -
crystaldust 11-06-05 12:26
Oh, Erin Thomas, beauty beyond beauty coupled with deep thought! Thank you for writing this poem. I am finally beginning to get what a ghazal is about though don't see much hope of being able to try the form myself. Still, as long as you keep creating poetry like this, I'll be happy to read it and content to trot along in my narrower lane. -
This is totally gorgeous very inspiring , moving and philosophical. Yours convey well the great mystery. A very beautiful write.
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very beautiful indeed
and i absolutely agree with your-
the poet shares the human fate of joining dust and ash
yet phoenix-like his legacy may fan with solar wings
thats true !
loved it and m going to read more of your works
good luck and keep writing -
You know, you just might be a red-neck if you can read this entire poem, and not notice that the last line of each verse ends in the same word!! In this case "WINGS"!
Well howdeeeee!LOL
I did re-read it and also went to Mr. Kianush' page.
Great job here!!!
John -
Nice write. I enjoyed this, you have a wonderful way with words.
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This was phenomenal...it's the people like you that inspire me to keep going..I totally agree with your philosophies on poetry. You sound like a remarkable person, truly a blessing to this world.
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Beautiful and nicely flowed, I especially like the way it ended. Pretty.
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just "Rarity" hmmm? you haven't noticed this word in any other of my ghazals?
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RARITY!
wonderful eyes!!! ....got it?? 
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kita: oh? which ghazal would that be?
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yipeeeee
am the first one here......I m finally gettting with your poems
Zahhar hun ....I remember the name used in one of your ghazal!
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