Writers can write one poem for each side of the question (pro & con) for a total of four submissions per writer (2 prose/2 logic). What I most prefer is for people to stretch themselves by writing for both positions, regardless of which side the writer truly believes in. But alas, I feel it would be really hard to do that, therefore, it is not needed to win the contest.
The two most comprehensive and well-PROSED 'arguments', if you will, shall be awarded 400 points each. One writer could conceivably secure the full 800 points in the /prose/ part of this contest, but I will pick one from each side of the argument as winners.
Personal experience related to the question at hand would make the read more interesting, but is not a requisite to the contest.
The two most logically constructed arguments, regardless of its quality in prose, will each be awarded 100 points. Total points awarded will be 1,000.
Please do not use crudity. Principles over personal attacks on the opposition is preferred, but if it is reasonable enough, personalities can be addressed.
Thank you for your interest in this question and for any submissions posted in this contest! Let the debate begin!
The two most comprehensive and well-PROSED 'arguments', if you will, shall be awarded 400 points each. One writer could conceivably secure the full 800 points in the /prose/ part of this contest, but I will pick one from each side of the argument as winners.
Personal experience related to the question at hand would make the read more interesting, but is not a requisite to the contest.
The two most logically constructed arguments, regardless of its quality in prose, will each be awarded 100 points. Total points awarded will be 1,000.
Please do not use crudity. Principles over personal attacks on the opposition is preferred, but if it is reasonable enough, personalities can be addressed.
Thank you for your interest in this question and for any submissions posted in this contest! Let the debate begin!
Contest is Over
- Contest was judged on April 13, 2004
- Rewards: Gold: 1000
- Final notes: I'm not allowed to split the points the way I intended. Sorry. I also cannot award four awards, which I didn't know. Guess I should have researched this better. I'll have to deal with it in another way. Thanks to one and all for your contributions.
Entries [16]
1 - 16 of 16
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Whether you're family, friends or a stranger
Y'all never really car who hears it• Commented on by judge. -
first one for.
second one againt.by kitty-cat81897 42 lines, 1 comment, on Feb 18 2:14 PM 2004. In Personal• Commented on by judge. -
I couldn't make these feelings go away,
ever day, I look at her in pain,• Commented on by judge. -
Taste the rainbow you will see,
taste the rainbow, yea thats me,• Commented on by judge. -
• Commented on by judge.
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"Ma'am, Why Is It So Wrong?"
Ma'am..?• Commented on by judge. -
by vampirestripper 26 lines, 4 comments, on Mar 1 1:13 AM 2004. In Other• Commented on by judge.
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by vampirestripper 16 lines, 4 comments, on Mar 1 1:22 AM 2004. In Other• Commented on by judge.
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Just stepping outside of the box~• Commented on by judge.
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I would not get in the way of your happiness.
Be free.• Commented on by judge. -
I say that homosexuality is wrong.• Commented on by judge. -
one sign caught my eye...
"Straight but not narrow"• Commented on by judge. -
The solution is this:Do not concern yourselves with us,
Do not let yourselves go back, and transgress,• Commented on by judge. -
Bill
"Well you see mate it's like thisby leannewales 54 lines, 2 comments, on Mar 2 6:14 PM 2004. In Society• Commented on by judge.
Bronze trophy winner
Silver trophy winner
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Comments
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oh oh id like to enter this but dunno if i will have time
very good subject tho!
hope no fights break out lol
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Of course not. Nothing should be prohibited unless it hurts someone.
And a celebration of love? Who'd want to prohibit that? It's just not controversial enough for me to want to devote a huge argument to it, although I am sure there are many who will.
I'll be watching the woodwork with interest.
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very brave
Boy, are you gonna cause some fur to fly with this one, sweets.
I am tired from recent battles, and think I shall just sit this one out....but, I will be watching - avidly - from the side-lines. 
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Not quite sure why my entry is in there twice, but there it is. It's nice to see that some are not afraid to tackle the issues that make folk's blood boil.
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I wish I could enter this one! Grrr! I live in Ohio, and Taft just passed a ban on same sex marriges! I got pretty fired up, you should have seen me stomping around my house throwing an absolute fit.
Grrrr. I'm gonna have to really think about this and get back to you -
You're only throwing a fit? I'm in columbus, and am trying to find a well paying job, so that I can save enough money to move out of Ohio -- if I'm not going to have my rights respected, that poop-faced govenor isn't getting my tax money!
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wowsers
Ill have to watch this one
yer a brave brave soul LOL -
This looks completely fascinating...if I had the intellectual capacity to enter I would surely do so...and so many points !!!
Shall be back here to read some of these...a very creative contest...
Sonia X -
Ah. This is a wonderful contest. I shall read these poems. But alas, I have not the time now. I am, for the record, a TG lesbian, so I can relate to at least one side of this argument. But I have been described as of late, an empath, so I probably could relate with the conservatives if I really tried. That's the problem. I don't want to try. I just want to be me and let people let me be me. Love is not assigned to gender. Love is from spirit to spirit. The spirit does not choose the gender, it chooses the life. Spirit to spirit.
-Depressed Wavemaster -
What an awsome contest hun! I have two moms, and, when someone says that they can't get married and that it's wrong, it makes me wanna be sick. I agree with what'shisname up there... love isn't selective, you love who you love. and i dont think ANY man has a right to approve or disaprove of it.
Nyx... -
bravo for having the guts to hold this contest
i'm sure you will be deluged with entries
best of luck!
~liz -
This is absolutely the most difficult thing I've ever done. I'm gay, and I'm trying, beyond all belief, TRYING to write a logically constructed argument, from a conservative viewpoint, to ban gay marriage, but. . . It's hard to get my head that far up my _______.
I've tried, and I've tried, and I've tried to write from EITHER view point, and I just don't have the energy to write a decent poem -- I could write one heck of a letter, but I can't do a poem, I'm sorry.
Best of luck!!! -
Comes to this: If you are a christian and have any belief in the bible, then same sex anything should be prohibited, "men who lie with men .... shall not inherit my knigdom"
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awesome contest. you are just begging for heated opinons/poems. this is a good idea but i cant really figure out anything to write. if i can i will, i am not that way but i am totally for their equality.
Meg -
tHANK YOU. i KNOW IT IS A REALLY TOUGH CONTEST, SO THERE HAVE been few submissions, but it makes people pry their minds open to give it some serious thought. :-)
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i like the fact that ur holding this contest even though it could get out of hand. im going to sit this one out because i really cant think of a reason why it should be a law. people go through things everyday and just want to be a part of something different then what other people do so why cant they just be with who they want to be with without the law getting into it. boy oh boy. i told my cousin i was bi and he started preaching at me about things in the bible. but what is the bible really. peoples words and thoughts written on paper. why follow other peoples words? if people never wrote the bible would we really have these kind of things to talk about? probably not
Edited on Feb 28, 11:52 p.m. because ''. -
Hmm....this is going to be interesting. Can't wait to see the results. Nice idea.
Michele -
Interesting argument. I wonder what the law is for if it doesn't prohibit something. I am Libertarian. Thx for the comment! ET
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I admire you ET for holding this challenge. My only hope is that it will be a clean debate with no mud-slinging by either side. Personally I am against the practice of gay "marriages", but I respect the right of others to hold conflicting views.
Good luck with the Challenge.
Take every care,
Sammy
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I completely agree! I never thought of love being quite spirit to spirit in such a way, but it is so true. ^_^
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Great idea for a contest. I tried to squish something out of my mind to paste gingerly onto paper and sort it out into words, but that didn't work... I cannot argue on my own very well, I need someone to help me get on track and get started.
Where I live it is illegal to marry another person of the same sex. I do not believe that to be right. If you love someone so much that you are willing to go against the common beliefs and fight against the common people, the majority, then you should be allowed to be with that person until you die.
Too much these days is hinged upon the Bible. It was written by men, even if it was dictated by God; people should understand from personal experiance that the race of men is not perfect in any way. Words can be twisted around to suit any purpose dispite what the words said had intended.
Anyone here who reads this, feel free to argue with me; open up my mind and enlighten my soul. I am willing to listen.
--With all of my love,
Sandra -
well i wrote two poems both rather bad but one for each side. i hope you like them it was rather hard to write one against homosexual marriages being a homosexual my self but i did my best. have fun judging the contest it is a great idea. and good luck to everyone who enters -RLR
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what an interesting contest topic in heat of all the gay marriage thingers that are going on right now.. it seems just about everybody is going for the gay marriages. I bet that our childrens children will grow up in a world un-biased of anything. hopefully.
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hey there! i finally entered your contest... it was certainly a challenge and it was extremely educational for me. thank you for hosting this!
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17 minutes til closing... as far as i can see, there are only two anti-gay entries so far. where did all the support go? i know so many Christians on AP.com, who are constantly writing about their great love and devotion to their Lord. but now, when their voice is truly needed, when what they say will really make a difference, when the bold are most needed, where are they? It just disapoints me greatly... anywho- this contest has turned out to be quite controversial and i'm grateful you've hosted it, even with all the flack i have received because of my position on the argument. it seems all i have done these past couple days is debate with other poets... it's very interesting and enlightening, honestly. i'm enjoying this to a degree because I know it's giving me wonderful insight and experience.
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wow! haha in those 12 minutes left to your contest after i posted my last comment... there were more entries, and specificially, one by EarthToJim which was absolutely perfect. i guess some Christians did speak up after all!
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And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom...ten righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
"But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."
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I wish I would have seen this contest earlier. Here is some stuff that will send "Gays" (I detest that term, it's such a lie) up the wall:
How do I answer when someone states that Jesus never spoke out against homosexuality?
First, as Bible believing Christians, we believe Jesus Christ is God in the flesh - and believing so, Jesus' strongest stand on the issue of homosexuality had to be when Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. The Bible says God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah - and Jesus is part of the triune God. The Bible tells us Jesus was there from the beginning of creation (Genesis) - and He was responsible for creation as well. How much more clearer can Jesus have been in his 'speaking out against' homosexuality, than in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah?
While it is true that the New Testament does not document any statements of Jesus specifically condemning or condoning homosexuality - He didn't need to. It was very clear. However, John 21:25 states that "…there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one…even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written." Further, it should be considered that there is no record of Jesus’ statements on other sexual practices like rape, incest, bestiality, etc. Yet it is unlikely that Jesus sanctioned these behaviors.
In addition, Jesus reinforced Old Testament law on sexual behavior in Matthew 5:27-30 and Mark 7:21-23. Old Testament law condemned the practice of homosexuality:
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." – Leviticus 18:22
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them hath committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." – Leviticus 20:13
Clearly, Scripture does not equate homosexual and heterosexual relationships. In fact, perhaps the best indicator of Jesus’ stance on homosexuality is found in Matthew 19:4-6, where He restates the Genesis 2:21-25 account of God’s ordination of the marital union. This reference is consistent with all of Scripture, which esteems marriage, the union of one man and one woman in covenant union, above every other relationship, and maintains that all sexual activity must take place within its confines. Any other sex outside that of the grounds of heterosexual marriage is considered fornication, condemned by God.
Homosexuality was punishable by death in the Old Testament, but we are under the new covenant of grace now. How does that affect the practice of homosexuality?
Many moral laws are repeated throughout Scripture. Old Testament civil and ceremonial laws changed under the new covenant of grace. But Christ Himself affirmed much of the moral law in the gospels – His dissertation on adultery is just one example. In Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus stated, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Romans 1:26-27 informs us that sexual immorality and self-worship brings great consequence to those involved: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of a woman, burned in their lust toward one another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet." These New Testament passages references the perversion of homosexuality – and affirms that God designed the sexual relationship for marriage.
Some homosexuals twist the meaning of the Romans passage and argue that what comes "natural" to them is homosexuality so it would be sin to act contrary to those feelings. However, what is "natural" and right is defined by God’s created order (Genesis 2:21-25 and Matthew 19:4-6) not our feelings.
Is homosexuality worse than any other sin?
The Scriptures in Leviticus (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13) refer to homosexuality as an abomination, as detestable. Webster defines abomination as something that is "worthy of or causing disgust or hatred."
The joining of one man and one woman in a covenant union (including sexual relationship) is also a picture or type of the Gospel of Christ. Christ is refereed to as the "bridegroom" and the church (the body of believers) is referred to as the "bride." The two will be joined for all eternity at the "marriage supper of the lamb." The homosexual act perverts this picture to the greatest possible extent. Does this imply that homosexuals are worse than any other sinner? Certainly not. All sin is worthy of disgust or hatred. By its very nature, sin is the antithesis of the character of God. In I Corinthians 6:9-10 and I Timothy 1:9-11, homosexuality is included among a host of other sins – sins that endanger an inheritance in the kingdom of God; sins that the law was designed to punish.
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." – I Corinthians 6:9-10
"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust." – I Timothy 1:9-11
We should never view the sin of another as more egregious than our own. All of our sins separated us from our Creator. Christ died to redeem our lives from sin, and to reinstate our personal relationship with God.
When using the Bible to validate the principle that homosexuality is sin, one is often told, "that is your interpretation." What makes this interpretation more valid than others?
An individual who uses the preceding argument is likely using it for one of two reasons. Either the individual (1) does not understand the methodology of Bible study, or (2) is simply trying to justify his or her behavior.
There is a vast difference between interpretation and opinion. Biblical interpretation is guided by hermeneutics. According to Webster, hermeneutics is "the study of the methodological principles of interpretation." Webster uses the following words to describe methodological: systematic, technique, process, discipline, orderliness, regularity, and classification. This means that Bible study must be done with great care to avoid arbitrariness and inconsistency.
A careful, systematic reading of both the Old and New Testaments indicates that marriage between one man and one woman is God’s plan, and that homosexuality is not an alternative; it is sin. Any other "interpretation" must be based on historical or theological revisionism or faulty hermeneutics. A more honest position by those who desire to support the acceptance of homosexual behavior would be to simply reject the Bible as God’s authoritative word; a position which denies any basis for the Christian faith.
MODERN DAY QUESTIONS
ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY
How can God condemn two people just for loving each other?
First we must ask, what does the Bible say about love? I Corinthians 13 is known as the "love chapter." It contains the biblical definition of love. I Corinthians 13:5 states that love "thinketh no evil." Further, verse 6 declares that love: "Rejoices not in iniquity [unrighteousness, sin, wickedness], but rejoiceth in the truth." We have examined passages that demonstrate homosexuality is unrighteous and sinful. Thus, it is biblically impossible for true love to be the basis for a homosexual relationship. God does not condemn two people for loving each other; He condemns homosexual behavior because it is contrary to His created order and His character.
Does upbringing have a bearing on one's "sexual preference?"
It is the belief of Stephen Bennett Ministries that you don't need to be a psychologist to see the common brokeness of families and/or parental relationships in many homosexual men and women. While there are many factors we believe a person can be lead down a homosexual path including broken mother/father relationships, molestation, incest and a variety of other causes, the answer is that homosexuals can come from both broken and stable backgrounds. Our backgrounds and experiences can play a part in determining what specific kinds of temptations we face, but are not the root of sinful desires or behavior.
Jesus said in Matthew 15:19: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." James 1:14-15 makes the point again: "…but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death." The condition of our heart is the root of both sinful desires and actions. We are born with a propensity for evil, and only the life changing power of Christ can enable us to overcome that.
However, parents do play a critical role in the spiritual development of their children. They need to lay a solid spiritual foundation for their children by teaching them to know, apply, and love the Word of God. And they should encourage their children to develop personal relationships with the Lord – to seek God for themselves and listen for His direction. Proverbs 22:6 says that a parent should "train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
How should parents respond to a child who confesses to being a homosexual?
If a child confesses to his or her parents that they are struggling with homosexuality, there are three primary actions parents should take. First, parents should demonstrate unconditional love to their children. As God has extended grace to us, parents must reflect that same grace to their children.
Second, parents should instruct their children regarding God’s plan for human relationships (one man, one woman in the covenant union of marriage) and the biblical admonition against homosexuality. In a loving but firm manner, parents need to express that they do not condone their child’s involvement in homosexuality. Loving your child does not mean you must approve of everything they do. Often parents warn young children not to cross the busy street. The child may become upset, even throw a tantrum. But the parent has correctly rendered his or her protective duty. Similarly, parents who warn their children not to cross the line into homosexuality fulfill their God-given parental responsibility. Sometimes, the hardest part of being a parent is telling your children what they need to hear – even when they don’t want to hear it. Love them enough to tell them the truth.
Third, parents should pray daily on behalf of their children. They must entrust their children to a gracious heavenly Father – He alone can change their heart.
Is it really a "choice" to be, or not to be a homosexual?
This is an area where Christians need to be careful to articulate truth carefully. We often say to the homosexual, "You chose to be that way." Certainly we can all make foolish choices that may place us in a position to be tempted in one way or another. However, while the homosexual may have chosen to give into homosexual desires, few chose to struggle with same-sex attractions any more than we chose the temptations we struggle with. It’s also important to note that God does not hold us accountable for the temptations that come our way but for how we respond to those temptations. That’s when choice becomes a factor.
I Corinthians 10:13 promises "that God is faithful, [and] will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." God’s grace is sufficient; His power made perfect in weakness. (II Corinthians 12:9) God will enable the individual struggling with homosexuality to withstand the temptation and to apply practical biblical principles to avoid being in situations that might prove to make it more difficult to avoid being tempted.
Scripture warns us that Satan’s desire is to exploit our weaknesses. "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour…" I Peter 5:8. If the enemy is seeking to devour us – then we should not give him an inch by placing ourselves in danger of temptation! We must be discerning. James 4:7 is clear on this point: "Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." The individual who struggles with pornography should stay off the Internet. Likewise, the individual who struggles with homosexuality would be unwise to develop a circle of homosexual friends. (II Corinthians 6:14-18)
Shouldn't we be more tolerant of other people's differences?
Differences should be tolerated, but sin should not. As Christians, we are not free to condemn individuals, but we have the responsibility to address sinful behavior. Correcting sin in a loving manner demonstrates true concern and compassion for the individual. Christians are called to be salt and light to the world. As such, we must take a bold stand for truth, rebuke sin, and share the Gospel with everyone, including those who are involved in homosexuality.
The question is often asked, "How can I witness to homosexuals without offending them or seeming "intolerant." In Jeremiah 6:10 the prophet asks, "To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear is uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the LORD is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it." Fear of offending or seeming "intolerant" should never move us to silence. Our presentation of Bible truth should never be offensive in and of itself, but the word of God will often cause offense to those who choose to reject it.
Is AIDS God's judgment on homosexuality?
This question is generally asked in an historical context. In the Old Testament, God used His prophets to warn the Israelites of judgment for their sin. If the warnings went unheeded, the wrath of God fell on the people. The judgments were nearly always pronounced for a defined period of time. There is no indication that God is judging homosexuals corporately with the AIDS virus in the same way that He judged Israel for her sin.
However, AIDS is a natural consequence of ignoring God’s moral standards, including those regarding human sexuality. Ironically, some who have walked away from homosexuality after contracting AIDS testify that they see the virus as an example of the grace of God in their lives. For them, AIDS was a wake up call – an instrument that God used to get their attention. And they are thankful for anything that helped them to see the need to turn of their sin and walk obediently before God.
In Psalm 119:67-68 we read: "Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept thy word.Thou art good, and doest good; teach me thy statutes."
MODERN DAY QUESTIONS
ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY (Continued)
How can Christians condemn homosexuality without being considered judgmental?
We live in a society that promotes "tolerance" of everything, whether good or bad. No one likes to be told that his or her behavior is wrong. Rebuke of any kind is considered "intolerant."
It is in this context that homosexuals attempt to justify their behavior by claiming that those who speak against it are judgmental. However, this argument should not hinder Christians from speaking the truth, and condemning sin itself. Is speaking the truth, and condemning sin scriptural? Absolutely. II Timothy 3:16-17 says that "[a]ll Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness…" Hebrews 4:12 refers to the word of God as "quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Thus, it is proper for Christians to use Scripture as a standard for judging behavior.
What Christians must guard against is a judgmental or hypocritical attitude toward the individual in sin. "For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved." (John 3:17) And in Christ’s own words: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matthew 7:1-2)
Hasn't science proven that homosexuals are born that way?
Anyone who tells you that science has proven homosexuality to be either biologically or genetically predetermined is either ignorant of the current science or is lying to you. No such proof exists. The often-cited studies, including the so-called "gay gene" or "gay brain" studies have all failed to pass the scrutiny of scientific peer review. Without exception, the studies were deemed to be flawed in their methodology or conclusions – or both.
One particular study, the so-called "gay twin study," attempted to provide proof for the genetic argument by looking at identical twins, one of which professed to be homosexual. The study found that in 51% of cases, both twins were professed homosexuals. As a result, homosexual activists and the media announced that more "proof" had been found that homosexuals are born that way. The media never thought to ask the obvious question, "If homosexuality were truly an inherited trait, would not both twins be homosexual in 100% of the cases?" So much for objective reporting!
God has defined homosexuality as sin and sin comes natural to all human beings because we are all born with a sin nature. But we do not have to live as a slave to sin – we can be set free through the redemptive blood of Christ. The Bible makes it clear; no matter what sinful desire you think "comes naturally to you", or however you "think " you were born – you must be born again. It is the opinion of Stephen Bennett Ministries that there are a variety of factors to lead someone down the homosexual path. Our firm belief is no one is born homosexual. Please feel free to contact us to discuss this topic further.
How can someone be a Christian, and still become involved in the homosexual lifestyle?
God accepts us where we are, but He immediately draws us to Him and calls us to a life of transformation in Him. "Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (II Corinthians 5:17)
How does the believer become a new creature? Through incarnation – the indwelling of Jesus Christ in the believer. When incarnation takes place, the Holy Spirit also takes residence in the converted individual. That is why I Corinthians 6:19 calls believers’ bodies "temples of the Holy Spirit." The Holy Spirit convicts believers of sin. A Christian cannot sin without experiencing the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and ultimately, the chastisement of God. Hebrews 12:6 states: "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth."
Realistically, a Christian may become involved in a sinful lifestyle. Like everyone, Christians have an inherited sin nature. However, a Christian should experience conviction when he or she sins. A lack of conviction is symptomatic of a deeper heart problem – it indicates that the person has probably never experienced salvation.
WITNESSING TO HOMOSEXUALS
What is the most effective way to witness to homosexuals?
Many people are looking for a "silver bullet" for witnessing to homosexuals. It would be great if there was one powerful statement or intellectual argument that could cause someone living in sin to repent. In reality, there is no one sure method for bringing homosexuals to salvation. Christians must remember that their job is not to convince the homosexual to change but, rather, to point them to the One who can change their heart - Jesus Christ. Only the Holy Spirit can convict an individual of sin, and change the heart.
The issue of salvation should always be addressed first when witnessing to a homosexual. How can we expect someone to live a Godly life when they do not know God? Spiritual rebirth is spiritual life – with it comes the capability to understand sin. "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." (I Corinthians 2:14-15) Only after a person is born again (entering into a relationship with Christ) will a homosexual have the spiritual discernment to recognize their sin and have the power to overcome it.
What is the best way to reach friends and co-workers?
The best way to win anyone to Christ is to set a daily example – by how you work and interact with others – by how you live. As in Stephen's song Do You Have A Testimony? the line says "Do you have a testimony, that the lost can clearly see? For you may be the only Bible they will ever read…"
Pray for opportunities to share your faith. Do not witness in a forceful, overbearing manner. If your behavior is consistently Christ-like, those around you will undoubtedly ask for your secret. Then you have the perfect opportunity to witness, and your life will be proof of what you share. Don’t feel as if you have to force the issue of homosexuality. If a discussion begins with an individual who is struggling with homosexuality, you can be sure they will eventually bring the issue up. Then don’t hesitate to ask them if they would like to know what God has to say about the subject.
What do you say to someone who says they are a Christian, but sees nothing wrong with homosexuality?
Being a "Christian" means different things to different people. When conversing with someone who claims to be a "Christian" and a homosexual, you need to confirm three things: (1) What do they mean when they use the term "Christian"? (2) Do they understand the Gospel? (3) Can they name a day or time when they gave their life to the Lord - when they were born again?
Once you have confirmed the authenticity of their profession of faith, share biblical passages with them regarding God’s created pattern for human relationship (one man, one woman in the covenant union of marriage) and specific passages regarding homosexuality. After being confronted with the Word of God, the true Christian will be convicted by the Holy Spirit regarding their involvement in sin. If there is no conviction, their problem is not homosexuality; their problem is possibly that they have never been born again. Either way, once you have shared the Gospel and provided relevant scripture regarding the issue of homosexuality you will have planted the necessary seeds for God to work in their heart.
WHY WE SPEAK OUT AGAINST
HOMOSEXUALITY
Why are equal rights and protection from discrimination for homosexuals contrary to the concept of justice and equality, which are deeply ingrained in our Judeo-Christian understanding of government and faith?
American government is founded on the principle that all people are created equal. Homosexuals have misconstrued this principle to mean that all people should be treated equally. Never has this been true, as our criminal justice system stands to prove. For example, a child molester, a polygamist or a thief is treated differently from someone who works for a living. Punishing these individuals is a biblical principle, as is much of the moral law that governs us today.
Throughout Scripture, God mandated punishment for sexual perversion. These mandates were codified in America in the form of sodomy laws, laws against adultery, etc. Unfortunately, many of these laws have been repealed, and those still existing are rarely enforced. Such defiance places America at a crossroads; she must choose to adhere to biblical principles or risk judgment. God created governments to be just, and to be a standard of righteousness; governments are accountable to God.
Homosexuals have equal rights in America. What they actually seek and often demand are special legal rights and protections. Special legal protections for any individual based on aberrant sexual behavior is certainly in conflict with the concept of equality as understood by the Christian founders of our American government.
How do you respond to the accusation that the increase in Christian and conservative condemnation of homosexuality is responsible for the current epidemic of hate and violence against homosexuals?
First, the idea that violence against homosexuals has reached an epidemic level is a myth. In fact, the Department of Justice and FBI figures show that violence against homosexuals represent only a small number of crimes committed against Americans every day. It is interesting to note that when homosexual activists describe the increase in reported violent acts against homosexuals, they only use percentages rather than actual numbers. They do so because the actual numbers are so insignificant when viewed in the context of the overall crime figures.
Secondly, the fact is that condemnation of homosexuality has actually decreased not increased. As the culture has turned further and further from God it has become increasingly rare to find those who will hold up God’s standards. What has increased to epidemic proportions is the denigration of faith in the American culture and specifically an increasing tolerance for anti-Christian bigotry coming from homosexual activists and the media.
HOPE FOR THE HOMOSEXUAL
Many homosexuals say that they cannot change their desires. Can they -- and how?
Homosexuality is a deviation from God's original design. We at SBM firmly believe no one is born 'gay.' We also believe in most cases, homosexual men and women do not choose their same-sex attractions, however, from childhood these individuals have been tragically "bumped" down the homosexual path. Unnatural homosexuality can be dealt with and the individual can move onto healthy heterosexuality. So, yes, homosexuals can change their unnatural sexual desires for the same sex.
First, the homosexual needs to come to Christ - they need to be born again (John 3.) Now as a Bible believing Christian, he or she should seek to develop a strong, consistent relationship with the Lord. The nearer one draws to God, the more His character develops in the person. Over time ungodly desires will fade; sinful behavior will become less appealing as one begins to see it from God’s perspective rather than from their own. We believe true change and complete deliverance from homosexuality is completely possible through Jesus Christ!
Coming out of homosexuality no doubt requires work on the individual's part. There is no magic wand. Depending on the individual and the extent of the underlying pain, trauma, depth and time they were involved in the homosexual lifestyle, restoration can be relatively short -- or long. It can be instant, or may take weeks, months or years. It all depends upon the individual.
When an individual is ready, they then can deal with their underlying pain - the root causes of their homosexuality. For many, these root causes may be different. Once a person biblically deals with the underlying causes, they can effectively move on to healthy heterosexuality.
Homosexuality can develop from a variety of different circumstances, including (but not limited to):
1. Childhood molestation
2. Early exposure to pornography
3. Premature sexual experience or encounter
4. A broken, disrupted or non-existent relationship with the same-sex parent
5. Some type of early childhood trauma
There are also other factors in the childhood and teen years that can play a part in one developing same-sex attractions. These early prepubescent circumstances and trauma are then reinforced throughout one's childhood, teen and adult years, causing sexual (and sometimes gender) confusion. The individual may experience rejection from the same-sex parent, as well as other peers of the same sex.
This external rejection can lead to rejection of one's own masculinity or femininity within the individual. When puberty kicks in, these feelings then become distorted and sexualized - thus leading to one's physical and sexual desire for the same sex.
When this individual eventually experiences 'homosexual' sex with another individual, they momentarily feel 'complete' - feeling he or she has finally found the love, approval, acceptance and attention they have always craved from the same sex. They also temporarily feel 'whole' in the lack of their own masculinity or femininity. The problem is this never fills the void he or she truly feels inside.
Many homosexual men and women will vainly go from partner to partner looking for "Mr. or Ms. Right" but will never find that individual - thus the reason for homosexual promiscuity. Though some individuals may find a homosexual partner they will "cling" on to for many years, this is nothing more than an unhealthy emotional attachment and dependency - a desperate attempt to avoid the real underlying issues and avoid confronting and dealing with the deep seeded trauma and/or pain.
Simply put, no matter how successful, professional, popular or "happy" on the outside some homosexual men and women may seem - inside, these are clearly broken, hurting individuals.
When a man or woman struggling with same-sex attractions becomes brutally honest with themselves, they know deep inside something is not right - actually, something is desperately wrong.
Overcoming one's same-sex attractions is a process which for some may not be completely easy, yet it is completely possible. Thousands of individuals have successfully left their unwanted same-sex attractions and moved on to healthy heterosexuality - many happily married today with children.
Just as a drug addict or alcoholic is not "born that way" and would never be encouraged to remain in their destructive lifestyle, the same must be said of the homosexual individual. Homosexuality is unnatural, unhealthy, morally and spiritually debilitating - and in many cases can be deadly.
Friend, change is possible - completely possible! If you are willing to begin the journey to finally deal with what you have probably struggled with all of your life - today can be the first day of the rest of your life!
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damn... you wrote so much... half way through I lost interest.
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you seem to be forgetting a huge reason why Christianity should have nothing to do with this amendment: the constitution intended to keep a wall of separation between church and state, as advocated by Thomas Jefferson. but what the hell did he know, anways?
hugs and kisses from a happy homo,
-wild -
by the way, Leviticus also called menstruation an abomination.
*winks* but you knew that, right?
-wild
Edited on Mar 05 because ''. -
While Avenger's post was laborious, he spells pretty good (for the most part)...I never heard of "Levidicus" or "menustration"...but to make a point along with you, my happy homo friend, I have yet to meet a woman who was in love with menstruation. My wife calls it an abomination. LOL! Guess I wouldn't make too big of a deal about the menstruation issue. It has nothing to do with the contest and the argument should probably have been directed to Avenger, maybe...I don't know for sure. Thanks wild. ET
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It seems to me that you can *only* justify that we run current legal policy based on a document that was written between 4000 and 2000 years ago (give or take) in the Middle East if you can *prove* beyond a doubt to everyone that is affected by the policy that the document is the Word of God. You can't. You'll never convince everyone of anything, and, if you think about it logically, the Bible is about the culture of the Ancient Hebrews and the life of a man who was crucified nearly 2000 years ago.
I don't mean you're wrong. I mean that it's a matter of faith. You *cannot* force me, or anyone else, to accept or live by your faith.
Edited on Mar 08, 6:30 because 'The first line was out of line and I apologise for it.'. -
Avenger, the Bible was not written by God. The bible was written by men. The idea that ALL homosexuality is derived from traumatic experiences such as molestation is so fucking absurd I don't even know how to respond to it. I don't think its genetic any more then you do. But you have these black and white conclusions. Regarding twins, doesn't that show that there is a higher *probability*? Why is it that people seem to think people either chooose to be gay or are born 100% that way? It's called a predisposition. Both twins might have a predisposition to like brunettes, that doesn't guarantee they both will for life. The conclusions drawn from that study are completely nonsensical, because they draw the conclusion based on a false assumption.
"Simply put, no matter how successful, professional, popular or "happy" on the outside some homosexual men and women may seem - inside, these are clearly broken, hurting individuals. "
This is a completely fallacious statement that is so blatantly untrue I don't even need to tell you why.
In addition, your article seems to imply that homosexuality is NOT as bad as the other sins, it isn't listed among the sins that will keep one from the kingdom of heaven. I like hearing this anti-homosexual crap coming from alduterers, drug users, and other hypocrites, how about you?
"Many homosexual men and women will vainly go from partner to partner looking for "Mr. or Ms. Right" but will never find that individual - thus the reason for homosexual promiscuity"
And straight people don't do this? Haha. What is this proving? The more conclusions you draw, the more it seems they are JUST like everyone else.
"Just as a drug addict or alcoholic is not "born that way" and would never be encouraged to remain in their destructive lifestyle, the same must be said of the homosexual individual. Homosexuality is unnatural, unhealthy, morally and spiritually debilitating - and in many cases can be deadly."
This is a horrible analogy. Drug addictions aren't even related. Those are addictions that are chemical and physical. How, exactly, is homosexuality more "unhealthy" then heterosexuality? You do realize straight people transmit diseases with practically the same frequency as gay people, right? Since Homosexuality is either inherent to individuals, or is caused through psychological development and socian/environmental conditions, how do you figure that it is unnatural? And since when did human beings live naturally? the artificial flavorings in your food - those aren't natural either. The bible doesn't speak out against doing what isn't "natural", and the boundaries of natural are ambiguous as hell. Homosexuality was practiced and accepted in many cultures around the world, and was not "morally debilitating" for them, for many, it was completely acceptable by their religion, sometimes even being involved DURING religious ceremonies.
"Overcoming one's same-sex attractions is a process which for some may not be completely easy, yet it is completely possible. Thousands of individuals have successfully left their unwanted same-sex attractions and moved on to healthy heterosexuality - many happily married today with children."
Many of these folk are the ones with broken psyches. Forcing someone on the premise that an invisible magical man will punish them for following through with their desires is cruel and absurd.
"Coming out of homosexuality no doubt requires work on the individual's part. There is no magic wand. Depending on the individual and the extent of the underlying pain, trauma, depth and time they were involved in the homosexual lifestyle"
You make it seem as if being gay is the result of a horrible trauma, as if they are suffering and in pain deep inside their minds. The gay people I've met...well, they aren't. Hell, they're happier then I'll ever be, and I'm straight as an arrow. You're not Freud, buddy. Most of this crap is assumption.
"We believe true change and complete deliverance from homosexuality is completely possible through Jesus Christ!"
Quite frankly, I believe you are crazy. Jesus Christ probably didn't even exist. The historical record is fairly vague, and too many of the mythical aspects of his life can probably be traced back to origins in other religions. I'd be happy to provide you with some links and book titles, if you'd be willing to do research on it.
"Homosexuality is a deviation from God's original design."
So are a hundred other sins I hardly see anyone going after. Why aren't people speaking out against adultery? Christians have bachelor parties. A guy fucks some stripper the day before his wedding. What do you think Jesus would think about that, hmm? Christians go get blowjobs from prostitutes, do drugs, etc. etc. And I don't see anyone speaking against this. They target homosexuals. You're turning a group into a scapegoat to redirect the massive amount of defection and immorality from the Christian faith. I don't need a Bible to guide my actions. I can determine them myself. You can't figure out right or wrong without a book to tell it to you? Talk about weakness of will. The bible is fucked up anyway. There's no proof it's "inerrant" only the illogical belief that it is.
"Secondly, the fact is that condemnation of homosexuality has actually decreased not increased. As the culture has turned further and further from God it has become increasingly rare to find those who will hold up God’s standards"
Good. I hope eventually everyone turns away from God, and the Bible becomes a silly archaic novel sitting on the shelves of libraries hundreds of years from now people can open up and read about this religion where people condemned people, said they were horrible sinners, that they were all going to go to hell if they didn't do what the book said, that God is going to burn them in eternal hellfire....but that he loves them, and wants the best for them.
by the... "Christian founders of our American government"
This country supposedly rests on a foundation of Democracy. This being the case, if 80% of America were Satanists, Christians lose, too damn bad. Majority rules buddy. Nobody cares what Christian founders said. If you care what they said, you'd note that George Washington grew Marijuana, and that he thought it was wonderful. Start growing your pot man. You can't pick and choose which aspects of our founding fathers you want to use.
"Such defiance places America at a crossroads; she must choose to adhere to biblical principles or risk judgment."
America is not required, nor should it adhere to Christian principles. The amount of Christians is decreasing. And who is going to judge the law? the law defines what is to be judged, buddy. And law defines itself
"God created governments to be just, and to be a standard of righteousness; governments are accountable to God. "
Maybe. Let's see.
"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment." Romans 13:1
It seems whatever authority we have, is by the will of God. Accept the laws, and accept when they are repealed. that's the will of God. or would you like to resist, and incur judgement? Wonder how relevant this'd be if Hitler was in charge, eh?
I'm not Christian. The Bible, to me, is a load of nonsense, and I don't care what it says. People are not required to do so. Keep your religion to yourself. As far as I know with Christianity, you can ONLY condemn/judge whatever those who are in the church, NOT outside of it. You have no place assaulting the rights of individuals who are not Christian. They are beyond your theologic scope. Since religion isn't based on fact, I'll do the following. I made a new religion. Right now. It was divinely inspired by the spirit of Shiboop. Shiboop says All Christians are Sinners. In order to be saved, they must come to accept Shiboop's prophet, Joojoo, as their personal savior. If not, they will suffer a fate eternity in the hands of teletubbies. I judge all of you unworthy! convert to my faith, or i will go around thinking you are all horrible sinners for committing Shiboop's horrible sin of being Christian. This is my decree.
Edited on Mar 12, 10:50 p.m. because 'I made a typo, obviously'. -
Glacian - you really made me laugh with that last bit. I *am* interested in the books and links you speak of.
Isn't it interesting, this debate? Everyone is hampered by the same problem: they can only see the world through the narrow tunnel of their own perspective. And funny how few of the comments are made by gay people themselves. If anyone gay reads this, please tell us, do you feel that you were born that way, or forced into it by social factors and traumatic experiences? You can even choose a third option of your own devising, if you want!
Faith and certainty. Two concepts which have been much mixed during the debate. Christianity is a *faith* whose adherents are *certain* of its truth. But it is a faith, something which people must accept themselves before they can be guided by its precepts. Christians, btw, are asked not to judge others lest they themselves be judged, in the New Testament. There are few universal certainties in life, and, I'm afraid to say, the existence of God is not one of them. Death is fairly certain, but there may be exceptions: how would I know if there were?
If you're Christian, then why do you not trust God to treat the rest of us - gay, heretics, unbelievers - as He sees fit, without your interference? Thomas doubted until he saw Christ after the resurrection and was forgiven. Peter denied Christ, and was forgiven. Mary of Magdalene was either an adulteress or a prostitute, and Christ forgave her. We all have our sins, our weaknesses. Jesus freed us from the restrictions of the old covenant, and encouraged us to forgive people their weaknesses, not to hold a grudge. If his apostles and followers were slow to take up this new idea of tolerance and forgiveness, and it comes through in their writings, who should we believe? The "Son of God", or his human followers? Perhaps they were no more guided by God in their writings than you are.
My faith is common sense, and my morality is guided less by "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and more by "do unto others as you understand they would want you to and will do them good". Not so catchy, I grant you. If my friend has a difficult moral choice to make, that choice is hers and hers alone. Morality is a spectrum of every colour, and what is wrong for me will not be wrong for her. Therefore I can only listen and offer advice and guidance and, if things go wrong, a friendly ear and a loving heart. I cannot make her choice for her. I can only be there, and hope that she finds her way.
I expect the same from my friends. My morality does not rely on there existing a God of any sort. I make decisions based on humanity, with an eye on long-term and short-term outcomes of my decisions for myself and for others. I can see no reason, within my moral stance, for homosexuality to be judged wrong. Find your identity and live with it. Do not try to make yourself into something you're not, because it invariably ends in disaster for yourself and for others. The harder you stretch a rubber band out of shape, the more it hurts when it snaps back. Or it breaks.
I think any loving God would understand this perspective. And do you know what? I think Jesus started out with much the same idea.
Edited on Mar 10, 1:01 p.m. because ''. -
Glacian, I commend you. There, folks, is someone who knows how to argue their darn point.
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Hey everybody, soory it is taking so long to judge this. I am getting ready to go to Florida and have had some unexpected stuff come up...I will have to pring these out somewhere to judge them (it's too hard to bear in mind who said what and I don't have a printer). I beg everyone's indulgence. Thank you.
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Guess I better type more slowly. I do not have a printer. I will have to print these out somewhere is what I meant to write.
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A little bit of flavor for the Bible thumpers to try on for size...
A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between
one man and one or more women. (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)
B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines in
addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron
11:21)
C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a
virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut
22:13-21)
D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be
forbidden. (Gen 24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)
E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the
constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be
construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry
the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or
deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one
shoe and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law.
(Gen. 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)
G. In lieu of marriage, if there are no acceptable men in your
town, it is required that you get your dad drunk and have sex with
him (even if he had previously offered you up as a sex toy to men
young and old), tag-teaming with any sisters you may have. Of
course, this rule applies only if you are female. (Gen 19:31-36) -
Can't say I've ever liked it when people label people (Bible Thumpers or Faggots), but while some of the scriptures quotes are of interest, some of the interpretations need to be more deeply researched, which might lead to a diiferent quote. Just my opinion. :-)
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wow... haha i'm so sorry... but your lil quotes up there are extremely flawed. how about actually quoting the scriptures? wow everything u said was TOTALLY bogus and it's nowhere in the Bible.
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Religion should not be mixed with the government. It's not fair to those in LOVE and it just shows Christians are trying to take over, which will piss of various other religions. Plus I dont think the bible should be able to be used. Not saying it didnt happen that Jesus wasnt here and it wasnt created, but what if some thing or some one was all brain washing us making us believe that the bibles real? =P I doubt that but you just never know!! Lol but really, the government should not get won over by ANY religion period. Doesnt matter what religion. it shouldnt be mixed with government.
Galcian said,
"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment." Romans 13:1
well, i forget where *i've read it in my own bible* but it says that dont JUDGE others!...contradicting itself..isnt that fun? so how do we know the bible is stable when it says dont judge others but you'll get judged? And you'll end up being judged by your peers, which they should not judge you. Ahh! very fun! leads to a load of crap and im only 14! why am i seeing loop holes?! I'm supposed to be 100% niaeve and believe any and every religion. I could find loop holes in any religion but i wont since its not just any religion going against something that doesnt concern them. I will look that up where it says. ((I am not going against Glacian)) I totally agree. I love the way Glacian ends his saying. Its classic and I totally agree.
And once again I have to say, that its only the THOUGHT that bugs them. Thats just the plain bit. They want control. No christian or any person PERIOD would NOT be able to tell if you were gay or bi or lesbian by wearing a wedding ring. Not if they were alone. Not unless they told you or were with their spouse. And even if two women were married with the rings on and all, how do you not know they're friends? You dont know that. Its the THOUGHT that bugs them the most. They cant THINK OUT OF THE BOX obviously. and thats just PLAIN..OUT..SAD!! -
Avenger - I must say - your comment provide my nightly amusement.
Others have already voiced their opinions, and I must admit that wrote such an insane about, which could have just been summed up in "homo sex is bad because an old book in which I believe in says so."
It's a great argument, sure... but first off, writing so much tends to cause people to loose interest. Which is too bad, because it's great hearing the other side.
I guess - the question I pose to you...
providing you have been in love (and if you haven't, I lose all respect for your arguement), have you ever actually said to yourself, "hey, I love her because she's female!" I really hope not. perhaps it would be because of certain physical aspects that you are attracted to. I'd hope it was for personality, though with the superficiality of american society, I place little faith in that statement...
hun, you fall in love with the person, not the gender.
I don't know. I wish you appeared a bit more open to at least understand the other side. sure, I don't know you. I can't tell exactly what you think, or what you'd listen to.
saying that humans can not marry their same sex is like saying a black man can't marry a white woman. We (as a society and country) have been there. One of the worst crimes possible, at the time.
But do we think that now? Nope. we deem that judgemental and racist.
also - the quote from your author's page - "As for the enemy, Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out!"
amazing. absolutely amazing. you made me giggle. hehe.
enigma - thanks so much for creating this contest. I've so enjoyed reading the different sides. You must be very brave
~Christy -
also, I'm surprised you didn't enter, with how strongly you seemed to feel on this subject...
~Christy -
Bogus, huh? Look them up, dear.
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alright, i shall. i am doing that as i type. but- for the moment- do you refer to me as "dear" to show your friendliness? or to mock and patronize me?
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I mean it with all due respect. I do not fight with mockery.
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WOW! I was right when I said your points were flawed. AND- completely out of context.
you said:
"A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between
one man and one or more women. (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)"
Gen 29:17-28 says:
"17 Leah had weak [1] eyes, but Rachel was lovely in form, and beautiful. 18 Jacob was in love with Rachel and said, "I'll work for you seven years in return for your younger daughter Rachel."
19 Laban said, "It's better that I give her to you than to some other man. Stay here with me." 20 So Jacob served seven years to get Rachel, but they seemed like only a few days to him because of his love for her.
21 Then Jacob said to Laban, "Give me my wife. My time is completed, and I want to lie with her."
22 So Laban brought together all the people of the place and gave a feast. 23 But when evening came, he took his daughter Leah and gave her to Jacob, and Jacob lay with her. 24 And Laban gave his servant girl Zilpah to his daughter as her maidservant.
25 When morning came, there was Leah! So Jacob said to Laban, "What is this you have done to me? I served you for Rachel, didn't I? Why have you deceived me?"
26 Laban replied, "It is not our custom here to give the younger daughter in marriage before the older one. 27 Finish this daughter's bridal week; then we will give you the younger one also, in return for another seven years of work."
28 And Jacob did so. He finished the week with Leah, and then Laban gave him his daughter Rachel to be his wife. "
this is a Biblical account of ONE man's actions. it does NOT specify that this is the way all men shall act, and does NOT command that our nation behave this way! you made a heinous mistranslation... don't let it happen again. people aren't going to take you seriously. now for the next reference!
II Sam 3:2-5 says:
"2 Sons were born to David in Hebron:
His firstborn was Amnon the son of Ahinoam of Jezreel;
3 his second, Kileab the son of Abigail the widow of Nabal of Carmel;
the third, Absalom the son of Maacah daughter of Talmai king of Geshur;
4 the fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith;
the fifth, Shephatiah the son of Abital;
5 and the sixth, Ithream the son of David's wife Eglah.
These were born to David in Hebron. "
if you carefully read the story of King David, you will see that altho he loved God, he made some huge mistakes in his life and paid dearly for them.
you said:
B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines in
addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron
11:21)"
II Sam 5:13 says:
"13 After he left Hebron, David took more concubines and wives in Jerusalem, and more sons and daughters were born to him. "
hmm... i think my previous comment said it all.
I Kings 11:3 says:
"3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray."
ok- get that last phrase. HIS WIVES LED HIM ASTRAY! in no way does this PROMOTE polygamy.
II Chron 11:21 says:
"21 Rehoboam loved Maacah daughter of Absalom more than any of his other wives and concubines. In all, he had eighteen wives and sixty concubines, twenty-eight sons and sixty daughters. "
ok, once again, just because it gives the account of a specific man's life, does NOT mean we are meant to follow in his example.
you said:
"C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a
virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)"
Deut 22:13-21 says:
"
you said:
"D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be
forbidden. (Gen 24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)"
this is the one point you are correct in making. the Bible says, "thou shalt not be unequally yoked." and for good reason! to be Christian is not to simple be religious... Christianity is the core of my existence it is WHO I AM. if i cannot share my essential joys and sorrows with the one who i am supposed to be one with, how can he and i ever truly be one? we must be united physically, emotionally, AND spiritually.
you said:
"E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the
constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be
construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)"
The Bible says that God hates divorce. As do most of us, once we see the damage it does to families across the nation. However, in the NT God does give provision for a divorce IF and only IF there has been unfaithfulness (aka adultery, an affair, whatever u wanna call it).
ok lol i'm exhausted...it's taking forever to type all this up. i shall now make my concluding statements.
In the Old and New Testament, God forbids adultery, orgies, promiscuity, and all types of sexual immorality. God commands each man to be faithful to his own wife. if you want references, i'll be happy to supply them.
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Iris, I respect your poetry, and I also like the way that you've formulated your arguments in this contest. So perhaps you can help me. Having read your post above, I wonder how it is possible to read those parts of the bible and *still* see it as a handbook by God rather than the history and customs of a race of people several thousand years ago? I'm not mocking, I genuinely want to know. (If you are easily offended by people who question your faith, please do not read the rest of this post!)
You see, as I understand it, only the first five books of the Old Testament, making up the Torah, are believed to be holy by the Jews. And Christianity is supposed to be following the rules laid down for us by Christ, as told in the New Testament. So I wonder where we picked up all the rest of the Bible and why we believe these are the Word of God or in any way Holy.
I also tend to think that the *logical* way for a Christian to interpret the Bible is, first and foremost, believe those quotes attributed to Jesus. Second, to consider the thoughts, words and deeds of the Apostles after His death, but always using your own knowledge and common sense and knowledge of Jesus' life and culture as a filter through which to interpret it. After all, we don't belive the Apostles were the Sons of God or God incarnate, do we? For a Christian, I'd say that the Old Testament should be the *last* point of reference, because, by dying as a sacrifice /Jesus made the old covenant with the Jews obsolete/. I don't think that logic has much to do with faith, though, and neither does common sense, sometimes.
And as a final bit of nit-picking IrisUnseen said: "God forbids adultery, orgies, promiscuity, and all types of sexual immorality". Since you're defining sexual immorality as being those things which God has forbidden, isn't that a rather circular argument?
(This may seem off-topic, but the argument against homosexual marriages and unions hinges on the Bible and how it is interpreted, so I think it's a valid point.) -
Hi folks. I just returned from Florida, bought a lot in Lakeland & found a builder. It was a grueling eleven days. I had the flu and even had toothaches on top of it. Still have the toothaches, but will work on that next week when the dentist is in. This contest will be judged and I apologize the way things turned out. Lots of personal things coming up too. When it rains it pours. For those who believe in prayer, I wouldn't mind a couple. LOL! For those who don't, a knid thought will do. Thanks!
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so who won the contest why hasnt it been judged yet
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I apologize to all concerned for the late judging of this contest. Between buying a lot in Florida & finding a builder, being sick with the flu and dealing with a multitude of dental problems, and now trying to find a job, I have had no time to fart much less judge this contest. Agian, sorry for the wait. I am currently trying to find out how to break the points apart for the winners I've chosen...unfortunately, I had one tie and one category was not entered, so I am asking for help from a site helper on how to go about this...please be patient a little longer. Thank you.
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same-sex marriages ? interesting contest idea !!!, I say live and let live because we are all just humans and we all need love. it don`t matter if folks say it is right or wrong ? so long as the two people are happy. sex is just a way to reproduce but love is special and no matter who you love` it still feels the same to you. if we stop same-sex marriages ? what do we stop next ? god loving and non-god loving !!! the list is endless and wrong. just my views !!! no insult intended to anyone.
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