"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream? "
- A Dream Within a Dream, Edgar Allan Poe (1809-1849)
"And the Raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamplight o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted- nevermore! "
- The Raven, Edgar Allan Poe (1809-1849)
This is my 2nd contest.
I want to encourage people to read and learn about my favorite poet: Edgar Allan Poe.
So this contest is open to poetry which is either about Edgar Allan Poe, or is written in the style of Edgar Allan Poe. If you do not know who Edgar Allan Poe is, check out my author page where I have posted 2 poems from Poe.
I prefer poetry which rhymes (since Poe usually rhymed) but that is not strictly necessary.
You can submit pre-writes provided it DID NOT win 1st place in another contest which I have hosted before.
amongst other things I will be judging poetry on :
- how effectively the poem seems to be inspired by Poe or influenced by Poe. Does the poem FEEL like a Poe poem. Did the poem apply any techniques which Poe was renowned for? Would people who like Poe, also like this poem? ( 10 pts)
- how effectively it makes use of meter, rhyme, alliteration, refrain, sound, imagery and tempo etc to create a pleasurable effect. ( 10 pts)
- how artistically the poem manipulates the readers emotions to feel a sense of despair, unfulfilled longing or melancholy (since Poe considered sadness to be the most pleasurable of emotions.) (5 pts)
- how well crafted the poem is in terms of punctuation, grammer, etc. Poe was a professional writer, and his poems were never sloppy or amaturish even at their worst. ( 5 pts)
-1 Bonus point if your poem is about a beautiful woman who either is lost forever or dead. (I'm scoring out of 30 on the criteria above)
- 1 bonus point if your poem is about Poe himself.
(note, you can earn 2 points if you write a poem about Poe's wife who died very young and left Poe a widower.)
Happy poems are allowed, but I would expect that there is a sense that
this happiness too will come to pass, and all happiness eventually turns to tears. Poe was far to cynical about human nature to ever believe that happiness of any kind would be permanent.
NOTE: blatantly ripping off Poe is boring and lame. The goal is to strive for an original poem which could have been written by Poe or say his pupil (go read his writings and become a pupil of Poe) or is subtly a hats off to Poe. There is a fairly broad line between paying homage and ripping off. If every single image or rhyme in your poem came from the same Poe poem, you will embarass yourself as years later your poem will come back to haunt you and people will accuse you of lacking originality.
Some info on Poe's opinion on poetry:
Poe maintained that the highest purpose of poetry was pleasure.
He maintained that the most powerful of all emotions was despair,
and put forward as argument to support this contention that all of the strongest emotions would move a person to tears in their most extreme form.
He maintained that was no motifs more poetic that that of the
death of a beautiful woman.
I will CRITICALLY comment on every poem which is entered.
The purpose of this contest is to encourage an appreciation for Edgar Allan Poe and similarily inspired poetry, so you must CRITICALLY comment on another entrant's poem for each poem that you enter into this contest.
Since I am going to comment on every poem which is entered, out of fairness you must comment on 1 of my poems for each poem which you enter.
My Poe inspired poems are:
Everlasting Hour allpoetry.com/Poem/1347271
Lovers' Song allpoetry.com/Poem/1347741
Ode to Words I Didn't Write allpoetry.com/poem/1347359
Feel Better Soon allpoetry.com/Poem/1356682
Census allpoetry.com/Poem/1361529
All Things Lost allpoetry.com/Poem/1347281
But you can review any of mine which you like.
The prizes:
1st place 400 pts
2nd place 150 pts
3rd place 100 pts.
5 - Honourable mentions (20 points each)
if you make multiple entries you can place multiples times, but you will only be awarded points for the best placing entry.
If I am conflicted about who should win I will decide ties by looking at which poet made the most intelligent and useful comments in their review of another entrant or my own poetry.
If you do not comply with the rules (especially #4) your entry will be DELISTED WITHOUT WARNING!
Rules
1. enter as many times as you want (but do all the required reviews)
2. comment/review one of my poems
3. comment/review one of the other poems entered in the contest.
4. put the name of the 2 other poems you commented on (as per rule 2 and 3) in your author notes.
5. I may comment on a poem prior to the contest judging, you can amend or revise your poem if you wish up until the close time.
6.If you didn't get a comment from me until after the contest closes, you agree not to get angry about it.
7. Put : "E.A.Poe (1809-1849) RIP" in your author comments so I know you read the rules.
If you very specifically were influenced by a particular Poe poem, you may choose to mention it, but I'll probably figure that out anyway.
David
REMEMBER: there is no true limit on the number of poems you may enter (since I dont believe 2 poems should be penalized for the unlucky circumstance of having the same author) but you need to do 2 reviews for EACH poem entered.
But a dream within a dream? "
- A Dream Within a Dream, Edgar Allan Poe (1809-1849)
"And the Raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamplight o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted- nevermore! "
- The Raven, Edgar Allan Poe (1809-1849)
This is my 2nd contest.
I want to encourage people to read and learn about my favorite poet: Edgar Allan Poe.
So this contest is open to poetry which is either about Edgar Allan Poe, or is written in the style of Edgar Allan Poe. If you do not know who Edgar Allan Poe is, check out my author page where I have posted 2 poems from Poe.
I prefer poetry which rhymes (since Poe usually rhymed) but that is not strictly necessary.
You can submit pre-writes provided it DID NOT win 1st place in another contest which I have hosted before.
amongst other things I will be judging poetry on :
- how effectively the poem seems to be inspired by Poe or influenced by Poe. Does the poem FEEL like a Poe poem. Did the poem apply any techniques which Poe was renowned for? Would people who like Poe, also like this poem? ( 10 pts)
- how effectively it makes use of meter, rhyme, alliteration, refrain, sound, imagery and tempo etc to create a pleasurable effect. ( 10 pts)
- how artistically the poem manipulates the readers emotions to feel a sense of despair, unfulfilled longing or melancholy (since Poe considered sadness to be the most pleasurable of emotions.) (5 pts)
- how well crafted the poem is in terms of punctuation, grammer, etc. Poe was a professional writer, and his poems were never sloppy or amaturish even at their worst. ( 5 pts)
-1 Bonus point if your poem is about a beautiful woman who either is lost forever or dead. (I'm scoring out of 30 on the criteria above)
- 1 bonus point if your poem is about Poe himself.
(note, you can earn 2 points if you write a poem about Poe's wife who died very young and left Poe a widower.)
Happy poems are allowed, but I would expect that there is a sense that
this happiness too will come to pass, and all happiness eventually turns to tears. Poe was far to cynical about human nature to ever believe that happiness of any kind would be permanent.
NOTE: blatantly ripping off Poe is boring and lame. The goal is to strive for an original poem which could have been written by Poe or say his pupil (go read his writings and become a pupil of Poe) or is subtly a hats off to Poe. There is a fairly broad line between paying homage and ripping off. If every single image or rhyme in your poem came from the same Poe poem, you will embarass yourself as years later your poem will come back to haunt you and people will accuse you of lacking originality.
Some info on Poe's opinion on poetry:
Poe maintained that the highest purpose of poetry was pleasure.
He maintained that the most powerful of all emotions was despair,
and put forward as argument to support this contention that all of the strongest emotions would move a person to tears in their most extreme form.
He maintained that was no motifs more poetic that that of the
death of a beautiful woman.
I will CRITICALLY comment on every poem which is entered.
The purpose of this contest is to encourage an appreciation for Edgar Allan Poe and similarily inspired poetry, so you must CRITICALLY comment on another entrant's poem for each poem that you enter into this contest.
Since I am going to comment on every poem which is entered, out of fairness you must comment on 1 of my poems for each poem which you enter.
My Poe inspired poems are:
Everlasting Hour allpoetry.com/Poem/1347271
Lovers' Song allpoetry.com/Poem/1347741
Ode to Words I Didn't Write allpoetry.com/poem/1347359
Feel Better Soon allpoetry.com/Poem/1356682
Census allpoetry.com/Poem/1361529
All Things Lost allpoetry.com/Poem/1347281
But you can review any of mine which you like.
The prizes:
1st place 400 pts
2nd place 150 pts
3rd place 100 pts.
5 - Honourable mentions (20 points each)
if you make multiple entries you can place multiples times, but you will only be awarded points for the best placing entry.
If I am conflicted about who should win I will decide ties by looking at which poet made the most intelligent and useful comments in their review of another entrant or my own poetry.
If you do not comply with the rules (especially #4) your entry will be DELISTED WITHOUT WARNING!
Rules
1. enter as many times as you want (but do all the required reviews)
2. comment/review one of my poems
3. comment/review one of the other poems entered in the contest.
4. put the name of the 2 other poems you commented on (as per rule 2 and 3) in your author notes.
5. I may comment on a poem prior to the contest judging, you can amend or revise your poem if you wish up until the close time.
6.If you didn't get a comment from me until after the contest closes, you agree not to get angry about it.
7. Put : "E.A.Poe (1809-1849) RIP" in your author comments so I know you read the rules.
If you very specifically were influenced by a particular Poe poem, you may choose to mention it, but I'll probably figure that out anyway.
David
REMEMBER: there is no true limit on the number of poems you may enter (since I dont believe 2 poems should be penalized for the unlucky circumstance of having the same author) but you need to do 2 reviews for EACH poem entered.
Contest is Over
- Contest was judged on August 5, 2005
- Rewards: Gold: 400
- Final notes: Great work everyone. I hope everyone who didn't know much about Poe felt inclined to read some of his poetry. If not... well.. you probably didn't win then. Anyways the winners:
1st (400 pts) : Listening by theasp
2rd (150 pts) : The Creepy Crawler by Thoreau47
3rd (100 pts) : The Phantom Bride by masterblaster
Honourable Mentions: 20 pts each
--------------------------------
Edgar's Grave by MyAlterEgo
Of When The Raven Cried by SliptheFlitch
Pestilance by Tahutihotep
The Garden Of Eden by VariousSingularity
The Cat by masterblaster
As stated in the rules, winners of more than 1 prize, only get points for the best prize they win.
Unfortunately a few people needed to get disqualified again for not reading rules. tsk tsk.
Cheers all and well done!
Entries [9]
1 - 9 of 9
-
I was softly sleeping
While my blood was seeping• Commented on by judge. -
Thousands now sleep where I have walked
thousands more will fall before I sleepby NeferMaatNetjer 20 lines, 13 comments, on Jul 15 3:01 PM 2005. In Dark• Commented on by judge. -
by your angers a gift 27 lines, 5 comments, on Jul 20 4:30 AM 2005. In Dark• Commented on by judge.
-
Tonight is the last night I am allowed to love you and tonight
my lips will depart from your cheek.• Commented on by judge. -
Sepulchral Soul
The embers of the fire have now suddenly died low,by 58 lines, 1 comment, on Jul 31 6:33 PM 2005. In Love• Commented on by judge. -
HIs cousin was lenore
his wife of only 14• Commented on by judge. -
Everlasting Nothingness crowds my empty thoughts.
Living in a world of dreams is a dream that I have sought.by Fuzzy Nihilist 16 lines, 4 comments, on Aug 1 11:14 PM 2005. In Dark• Commented on by judge. -
Burning, blinding, setting sun
causing all outside to run.by Fuzzy Nihilist 16 lines, 1 comment, on Aug 2 2:48 AM 2005. In Dark• Commented on by judge. -
Burning, blinding, setting sun
causing all outside to run.by Fuzzy Nihilist 16 lines, 1 comment, on Aug 2 2:50 AM 2005. In Dark• Commented on by judge.
Add a comment
Comments
-
I would not dream of entering this contest. I also love Poe and could not even begin to attempt at reaching anything near his calabre of writting. Just wanted to say this contest ROCKS as much as EDGAR ALLEN POE.
-
This should be a fascinating contest and I will be excited to see the entries. Good luck and good wishes.
-
Please people.. READ THE RULES!!!!!!!
-
Give it a shot. Poe wrote sonnets and many different kinds of poetry. You dont have to be as good as Poe to enter. In fact.. it would be particularily astonishing if anyone writes something I could say is as good as Poe. Write about, ghosts, forgotten kingdoms... something which is Lovecraftian (since H.P. Lovecraft was a fan of Poe)...
-
Poe is also my favorite and I tend to write more in that style than any. I'll see if I can come up with something for this. I have a question though, you said you could enter a prewrite if it won first place in your other contest. Since you mention this is your second contest, doesn't that leave only one poet who will be allowed to do this? Just thought I'd ask before I enter.
~Lyrical
-
oops.. I meant to say. DID NOT WIN 1st place.
sorry about that. -
GREAT! I'm bookmarking this then and I'll try to come up with something. Sounds like an exciting contest.
~Lyrical
-
My favorite poem of all time is " A dream within a dream" though I dont think I can do Poe any justice because he is so fantastic, Great idea
-
hmmm. your contest is very interesting. i would join in, but irather suck at rhyming. anyway i like your choice of poem quotes at the top. especially the lines you chose from "a dream within a dream". good luck all you contest enterers!!!
-
Gee, I might enter this contest as Poe's work is what got my intersted in poetry in the first place. Kudos, a very good idea. However, I love his poetry. Excellent idea, dear. Blessed Be! ~Karla~
-
Hi David, this is not an easy one by a long chalk, but I am stubborn and like a challenge, just one thing oh! Lordy you have picked up that nasty habit insisting we white a phrase in the author box, lol, must be very contagious. hugs Di
-
Every time I think of Poe, I remember reading his poem Bells. I hated that poem! Why?! because he wrote it so well...that I kept hearing bells, bells, bells in my head. I wanted to find a ball ping hammer and smash evey bell I came into contact with. He was on some serious drugs...hummmm, is that what it takes....nah!
~Dee -
its because last time there were too many people who didn't comply with the requirement to comment on 2 other poems and list the poems, and got all offended when they were delisted. I tried to make it a respectful and educational message at least.
-
edger poe is by far my favorit poet of all time, and i love this contest, lol just thought i would say that
-
Wow this is a very good idea. I haven't read that many of Poe's work so I don't think I could pull off a poem about him. Best of luck to everyone that enters. I look forward to seeing the winners.
-
good luck with this .. I wouldn't even be game to enter such a contest .. I don't think anyone could come near his poetic talent
living or dead 
-
Fortunately E.A.Poe has decided to sit this one out. So anyone can win.
-
I hope to have something by the deadline, I love Poe's work and this is a great idea, honoring his style, and philosophies of his dark life.
Peace Muddy -
The raven is amazing.
-
I've had to delete some more entries. sadly...
why dont people read the rules?
-
I like your sense of humour
-
wow good idea. i like poe. but unfortunaltely i have not read enough of his stuff to write like him. pluss i don't think i could immitate someone else's style. i can only do my own! but hope you have a blast judging this
-
An immitation poem is not enjoyable at all. A poem inspired or influenced (if only partially) by another poet however is not an immitation. It is an original work of art. This may be a contentious issue for some, but no one's STYLE is bereft of influence. This contest is an invitation for poets to put forward works which were influenced or inspired by Poe, or works which pay homage to Poe.
-
this is a wonderful idea for a contest. i would enter (for i hav a few inspire by his style) but they're more modern, so im afraid i will ahv 2 pass. but it is a great contest
-
I think I'll give this a shot. And this probobaly isn't the right place to ask this, but does anyone else think that Poe was an inferior poet? I mean he really had some brilliant short stories, I won't deny that, but apart from "The Raven" (which is brilliant) and a handful of other poems, none of his poetry is particulary original. Beautiful and technically proficient yes, but oh so very samey. I know what his aesthetic principles were, but I really don't think that he lived up to them all that well in his poetry...
-
depends on how important you think SOUND is in poetry. If you, like me, love poetry which SOUNDs good. Then you would not think he is inferior. And I do not. If you value creative imagery and clever metaphore above all, then you would probably find Poe to be a bit mediocre. He did not use much in the way of metaphore or subtle imagery, and his poetry did not tend to have much very deep meaning. I am not certain that poe failed to live up to his aesthetic principles. Which principle did he fail to live up to? I think his principles were different from many other poets, but apparently they were in fact aligned with a lot of non poets, unless there is some other explanation for his popularity amongst non-poets.
-
Your Poetry Rocks! It is so damn awesome and you convey emotion very very well. Keep on being so creative and everything!
-
Well what I'm talking about when I say that he failed was to create an effect. Just compare any of his good short stories to his better poems, the poems just don't create the same atmosphere at all. Well that's just my reaction to his work.
-
I would agree that Poe is a better writer than poet. But I would disagree with anyone condemning him as a "bad" poet. There are a hell of a lot worse poets than Poe, and much of Poe's poetry is very pleasurable to read and thus achieved what he was aiming at.
Critics who only value metephore and imagery in poetry are not satisfied with Poe, but those who value emotional impact and sound are impressed.
Is this a bad poem?
To My Mother
------------
Because I feel that, in the Heavens above,
The angels, whispering to one another,
Can find, among their burning terms of love,
None so devotional as that of "Mother,"
Therefore by that dear name I long have called you-
You who are more than mother unto me,
And fill my heart of hearts, where Death installed you
In setting my Virginia's spirit free.
My mother- my own mother, who died early,
Was but the mother of myself; but you
Are mother to the one I loved so dearly,
And thus are dearer than the mother I knew
By that infinity with which my wife
Was dearer to my soul than its soul-life.
-E.A. Poe
personally I would have ended the poem with the term "sole life"
rather than "soul-life"... but the sound and melody of this poem
along with emotional significance... makes up for what it may lack in imagery... although it does draw a picture of angels conspiring in heaven... which also goes very well with another poem of his Annabell Lee.
This poem presents a turn of phrase and suggests that if you love someone more than your own self (as people often do pretend), you should love their mother more than your own mother. Which is ironic, intelligent, and as far as I know original. And in Poe's highly logical way he put forth that he loved his wife's mother MORE than his own mother and therefore he DID love Virginia more than himself. That is not poetic?
Not that I've read that much poetry. But I can say I read a lot of poems by other renowned poets which I found a lot LESS enjoyable than this poem and only a few which I enjoyed more.
Perhaps there are such people who are impressed by poetically presented ideas and logic and less impressed by images. I may be one of those people. I would certainly agree that Shakespeare was a better poet, as he mastered BOTH imagery as well as ideas.
-
Ok, I certainly wouldn't say "bad" poet. He is a lot better than a lot of poets, but I just don't find he cuts it for my reading.
And that poem you presented was a pretty good poem, but look at it this way: did it actually create an effect on you? Did you feel emotionally moved by? I'm afraid I didn't... And is the logic he used in the poem universally applicable? Or only to people who never actually knew their own mothers?I think it's much more subjective than objective. It's a well crafted poem. But I really can't connect with it.
(Incidently, I can't stand Annabel Lee, I find the subject matter in it tedious...) -
I think anyone who can imagine being so in love to hold the target of their affection is being HIGHER than themself, ought to be able to appreciate "To My Mother". I am not sure, but the notion of lovings one's mother in law is quite unusual and seems original to me.
As for Annabell Lee, the idea of angels so jealous of the love between the speaker and Annabell Lee, that they would actually kill Annabell Lee just to spite love, was fantastically romantic and poetic.
" The angels, not half so happy in heaven,
Went envying her and me-
Yes!- that was the reason (as all men know,
In this kingdom by the sea)
That the wind came out of the cloud by night,
Chilling and killing my Annabel Lee."
This stanza just floored me.
It perfectly captures a feeling of infinite cynicism which I can relate to. In 1 stanza it is not only incredibly blasphemous and ironic but suggests that Love is superior to heaven by more than TWICE.
It suggests that in this, your MORTAL life, you have a chance at true love, but NOT afterwards in heaven. The following stanza suggests that all those chaste and holy men will NEVER experience true love.
It then suggests that if you ever find true love, the angels will conspire against you out of jealousy. It even suggests that demons and angels would work together to defeat true love.
The idea of 2 souls united against the world who would out of jealousy do anything to sever them.
This are poetic statements of epic proportions. And if Poe didn't cover them up in vague metaphore and imagery, the poem is still very poetic for it.
" But our love it was stronger by far than the love
Of those who were older than we-
Of many far wiser than we-
And neither the angels in heaven above,
Nor the demons down under the sea,
Can ever dissever my soul from the soul
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee."
The poem exhalts human emotion quite frankly as EXCEEDING the divine and overthrowing the moral authority of the church. If you can refer me to poetry by other poets on the same theme I would love to read it.
Anyway... my only point is that while Poe may have used fairly straightforward language in most of his poetry, the rythm and music of the words was excellent (beyond most poets) and the themes and motifs where often poetic in their highest order.
You found that tedious? I certainly can not agree with you.
I find it quite the opposite of tedious. it is romantic. And in a society which tries to instill in us that the only purpose in life is to "serve others" while at the same time doing just about everything it can to humiliate and dehumanize as many people as possible, I find it anything but tedius to suggest that 1 persons force of will can literally confound the divine order of the universe.
putting such ideas to words which can be read aloud and sound musical at the same time, was basically Poe's definition of poetry. So I think he upheld his own asthetic values very well. -
Hmmm. Well fair enough. The idea in To My Mother is certainly original, but it's hardly a relevent idea to anyone. The man never knew his birth mother, and he had a really skewed idea of love (I don't know too much about his relationship with his wife, but the fact that she was 13 when he married her and he 27 indicates that it was probobaly an extremely heightened infatuation with her, rather than true love) So as interesting as the thought is, I just don't think it's worth dwelling on.
And I'm not saying that Annabel Lee doesn't have its merits, I just can't stand the subject matter in it. I very firmly believe that you just don't understand love until you are a mature adult. So when the poem talks of these two children in love I instantly think : "two kids infatuated with each other" and so for all the deep thinking in the rest of the poem, I just can't help but think that it's just two kids infatuated. I mean we all know what it's like to be an infatuated young kid, and it does twist your perspective on things. Which is the impression I get from that poem. -
"I very firmly believe that you just don't understand love until you are a mature adult."
Well.. it could well be. Annabell Lee was one of the last poems Poe ever wrote, and was not published until after his death in his obituary. He was 40 when he wrote it. And after watching his wife die slowly from TB, was at the pinnacle of his "maturity".
Ironically "cupid" is an angel which takes the form of a baby.
Romeo and Juliet were what age?
I dont know if your criticism of the lines " I was a child and she was a child,
In this kingdom by the sea;
But we loved with a love that was more than love-
I and my Annabel Lee;" has much to do with poetic criticism and is not in fact more based on your personal opinion that only old people fall in love, and therefore any poem which suggests otherwise is unpoetic. In any event.. the line literally only says that the speaker and "Annabell Lee" loved each other since childhood. nothing more. If Shakespeare was wrong in thinking Romeo and Juliet was romantic, then I can forgive Poe for thinking that writing something like that in a poem would be poetic.
Nothing Poe did in his personal life, can detract or add to a piece of literature.
-
Well Poe married his cousin when she was 13 and he was 27. I refuse to believe that that could have been true love.
Cupid may be an angel in the form of a baby, but is that to say that babies are capable of love (the love between a man and a woman I mean)?
And I also believe that Romeo and Juliet weren't in love. I forget who said it, but "It's the mark of an immature man to be willing to die for a cause, a mature man will live humbly for it". Which I think is perfectly applicable in that situation.
But I do agree when you say that poetry should be evaluated in and of its own merits, not with reference to the life of the poet.
I don't think that there's any ambiguity in the poem about whether the were children or not. I really can't see how "I was a child and she was a child" suggests anything other than they were both children at the time of the events in question. Especially with the line " Of those who were older than we-" -
" I refuse to believe that that could have been true love. " -
You have a lot of gall. But that is also not important. What is important is whether the motif is poetic or not.
"And I also believe that Romeo and Juliet weren't in love."
I only brought it up to show that the motif did not originate with Poe, even Shakespeare used that motif. And shakespeare presented it as true love. Nothing in Romeo or Juliet suggests it was not intended by Shakespeare to be true love.
I will say this. Regardless how old you are. When you finally do fall truly in love (I suspect you have not) you will feel like a child. It is an experience that nothing else can possibly compare to. it is a absolutely completely novel and barely immaginable until it happens. "I was a child and you were a child" is a metaphore. If you think you fell in love and when it happened you didn't feel giddy and wonderstruck and YOUNG, then I would submit to you that you weren't experiencing true love.
"It's the mark of an immature man to be willing to die for a cause, a mature man will live humbly for it". Whoever said that, I don't know either, but since you are bringing it up, I will address it as if it was your own position.
By the logical examination we would see that the cause of MORALITY itself is not worth dying for. And thus if another year of life was made available to a "mature man" by killing 1 or killing a million others, you would advise that a MATURE man would kill and so enable himself to live humbly in his causes rather than die sooner in his ideological refusal to commit mass murder.
If you would accept that there exists any possible state that a MATURE person should choose their own death and thus avoid, then you contradict your own statement.
It is not mature to persist in life believing that your time on earth is infinite. We ALL die. It is mature to accept the fact that in any calculus of the value of your own life, you should treat your remaining life as what it is: a few decades at best.
After those decades expire, the evil continues thanks to you, and you are dead anyway. The only thing which persists is the EFFECTS of your actions on the universe and the others within it.
But all of that is also immaterial. The only question is whether or not the motif of making the ultimate sacrifice for your beliefs is poetic or not.
Poetry is not necessarily "mature".
In fact... poetry is arguably intrinsically childish. As it values fickle emotion over staid reason, volatile and subjective feelings over objective immutable facts.
The critique that the motif in a poem appeals to "immaturity" is no criticism of poetry at all.
-
Well frankly if you think that that's what love is then you haven't been in love for a very long time. I do think that I'm in love, and it did make me feel like a child. Then the infatuation wore off. I still love her. I just recognise that she's human. I really do think that that emotion you are speaking of is just heightened infatuation.
Also the example you gave to prove that quote wrong was ridiculous. It's not an axiom that's applicable to every situation. Certainly not one where other peoples lives are at stake. But I think it's applicable to Romeo and Juliet. There was no reason they couldn't have gone on living. If they weren't so hasty and emotional everything would have turned out fine. I really think that that's what Shakespeare was getting at with this. Incidently I don't think that there's anything in the play to indicate that it is true love. He was a crafty cat.
And to be fair, I don't think that I claimed that his poetry was actually bad at any point. (If I did then I didn't mean to) All I've said was that it didn't appeal to me for these reasons. -
Oops. I just saw how my love arguement is completely invalid. You should probobaly ignore that.
-
"I do think that I'm in love, and it did make me feel like a child. Then the infatuation wore off. I still love her. "
its settled then. When people fall in love they feel childish.
What happens if the infatuation does not wear off, EVER, even after death. that is poetry! Forget about the practicality of it. Poetry goes beyond practicality. Imagine a love where the infatuation NEVER wears off: that's a poetic motif!
-
I wrote my poem this morning, then when I scanned the contests,
found yours and figured it was a match made in heaven.
My Poem is the culmination of a similarity in design I noticed between two different poems.
I combined the poems and while keeping the mood, created a totally new and original story, and from yet another poem for the climactic conclusion.
I read the rules and will put Poe's obit. up, but i will NOT put up my commentar on the submissions of other contest enterers and yourself.
I will instead PM it to you, if that suits you.
If it does not, allow me humbly withdraw from the contest, with apologies for wasting your time.
~Kmag
Edited on Jul 27, 3:20 p.m. because ''. -
So, I was reading the the conversation between Davidz and Fallen Seraph and was a bit intrigued by these sentences by Seraph ' Then the infatuation wore off. I still love her. I just recognise that she's human.' I would just like to say, if you recognize the one you love as human, your love will not last. To attain ever-lasting love, the such that Poe refers to in 'Anabell Lee', your love must be for the soul, which is an eternal infatuation. For life is momentary, death is perpetual-only the soul exists in both. I have even wrote a poem very much inspired by 'Anabell Lee'. I not only think of that poem as good, but I believe every metaphor Poe uses is hinting at this truth: Both the angels and demons fear the ones that love each other for their unseen beauty, their spirit. Well, I didn't mean to be intrusive, but, I noticed both of you failed to acknowledge such a type of love...I would also like to say this is an exceptional idea for a contest...Although I fear I'm going to lose, but, at least I will be surpassed in the name and memory of Poe...
-
That is a good point purplehaze, I never quite thought of it that way. And while this is true in real life, it is infinitely more true in the realm of poetry. True love must be exalted beyond the limits of mortality or else it will not be merely mundain and unpoetic.
-
The one thing that all of you YOUNGSTERS have forgotten is the Elenor in Poe's poems as well as Ullame were not Clara but her mother, he had mature thoughts about immaturity and mature yearnings for her mother-two halves of one face and older and a younger version, some considered improper either way, plus the fact they were cousins and the blood ties were a natural precursors to perception and appeal. He got two for the price of one. In Israefel the singing angel he is referring to his wife and the fact that angels were sexless unisexed creatures he made have implied that their marriage was sexless, also in Annabel Lee, the child reference you argue, her invilidic state would explain this. He was enchanted by her, small, delicate forever innocent, possibly unable to enter into a full relationship with her, he instead toked and smoked to ease his desires and needs. Back then this sort of relationship was quite possible. Also, many opium dens served as whore houses.
His addictive personality perhaps was also due to an illness that some Scots know well and the Allens were Scots and that is porphyria.
Drinking and use of opiates as well as being in the sun, exacerbated the illness at various times, he preferred darkness,daylight was painful, causing personality change, and depression, giving pneumonia like symptoms, such as those that appeared on the occasion of his death. He went to the hospital the day before and he was said to be alright and they turned him away, he died on the steps the next day. The illness can cause visual changes, psychotic episodes, and temporary dementia especially in the presence of alcohol, high protein consumption. His seeming recovery after his European trip may have been due to a high carb diet, lack of alcohol and drugs, a low levels of sun exposure. -
Hi David, thank you for the bronze, hugs Di
Adding your comment:
