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Why I Have My Much Debated Disqualification Rule

Hi Contestants to a lordoftherings Contest:
We have all read it and we have all discussed it and I would like to offer you a viewpoint of that much debated dis
Hi Contestants to a lordoftherings Contest:

We have all read it and we have all discussed it and I would like to offer you a viewpoint of that much debated disqualification rule that is written on all my contest pages.


But just for a refresher here it is --


STOP!!!

PLEASE READ THESE RULES CAREFULLY:  

IF YOU DO NOT IT IS AUTOMATIC DISQUALIFICATION
 

MUST BE SPELL CHECKED:
 
ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS RULE

 
If there are any spelling errors (and I don’t mean by using figurative language and slang, I know the difference) or grammatical errors (like improper spacing or no spacing between words where they should be, punctuation – when needed, or improper use of the apostrophe or neglect to use the apostrophe) then I will automatically disqualify you.)  
 
(This is not a rule, but if you must explain yourself about anything mentioned above to avoid a disqualification then place it in your Author’s Comment box, I will not go running after entrants for corrections.)
 
I AM GOING TO BE GIVING EVERYONE A CHANCE HERE
PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING!!!  

Call upon your resources of friends to come and read your work!

If you enter a poem with the following guidelines below, and if there is A  spelling or grammatical mistake, you will have until the end of the contest to have corrected it.  If it is not corrected the night I close the contest, then it will be disqualified.  This does not mean that you can be sloppy and just post right away, you must have had to at least attempted to proofread before entering it.  I read the first reading as soon as I receive the post, so I will note the editing efforts of it on the original read.  Thank you for making it easier for me to read them.
   
That’s it for the rules.  Simple, right.  You would be surprised!


The following is an explanation for the above stringent rule to enter one of my contests.

Number 1  Spelling error rule.  Being a university student attempting to graduate in honours in my field, I am constantly reminded to check my work over for spelling, clarity, and the correct use of the English language.  It thus becomes a learning experience because in order for me to do this I need to rely on the next clue in the contest page.  It also enables me to watch and set an example for other poets here.  If I was not to make sure I followed my own rule, then how can I expect others?  I realize that I make mistakes and have been corrected and that is more important than leaving the embarrassing mistake on the page.  And I do appreciate when people point out my faults in writing because I learn from it.  

Number 2 Call upon your resources of friends to read your works.  This opens up a communication and the interaction that allpoetry.com is based upon.  One read begets another read and begets another and communication is exchanged.  More people read your work and critique it.

Number 3  I accept prewrites.  Another interactive method of having your works read and corrected.  Place them in the Featured Box or the Shameless Box and have people glance them over.  Even write a message in the Author's Comments requesting it and you would be surprised at how many people will respond.  There is also someone who will read them for you in certain contests before you place them in.

Number 4  You have until the end of the contest to make changes.   Once it is entered, the final version will be read after the contest closes.  So it is not like I have cut you off the moment you have entered.  It will only be disqualified if I see that NO attempt was made during the contest to have it corrected.

I do not feel that the above rules on spelling and grammar are that harsh being the interactive community that we are proud to belong.  It is especially why I run these contests, to open up dialogue between the diversity of the poets we have in our community.  Leaving comments on the rule in a negative manner defeats the purpose of the rule that I am asking.  I am hoping that the feedback for this rule would shift to the positiveness and the heart of why I run these contests.

Thank you

Gregg  
lordoftherings


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Comments

1 - 42 of 42
  • Edge of Dreams
    August 20, 2004
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    I think this is great and I wish more people would adhere to rules like these. Another thing that really annoys me is when people claim a poem is of a certain form, but it's not. I have seen multiple stanza ryhming poems in the haiku category, love poems that only talk about how much they hate someone, etc. It's frustrating!


  • squeezy
    August 19, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I take it from this that you've had people getting irate because you've got standards; personally, I say 'well done'. Of course, at times poets deliberately use slang, slash-juxtaposition, deliberately twisted spellings and double meanings. Most of the time these will show really clearly in the context of their work (for example, I used the word 'Canon' as a double-meaning in a poem about religion, poetry and violence; the capitalisation and single 'n' being a reference to a religious Canon and 'The Canon' of literature, but the word also reminding the reader about big guns) but if there is likely to be some confusion, that is what the comment box is for.

    My only issue with this column is the fact that it makes such perfectly normal sense that it leaves me thinking "why did he have to write it?" - but then again I know there are some people at AP who want things their way 100% of the time (even in another person's contest).
    Edited on Aug 19, 10:17 because 'typo ha ha ha!'.

  • Silver Fox
    August 18, 2004
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    I cannot agree with you more. The purpose of poetry is to convey some message or emotion, and if you intend to make such a thing successful, then proper grammar and spelling is key. Spelling and grammar errors, a lot of times, disrupt the flow of a read, making the reader shift perspective from one of the poem's imagery, to one of realizing that a poem is being read.

    Also, I tend to think that if there are glaring errors in a poem, then not a lot of thought and attention was invested in making the poem perfect. Right from the start, then, I will not give it a lot of slack.


  • kjack
    August 18, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I feel the same about spelling and grammatical errors. I hate to read something that is filled with misspelled words and improper punctuation. If I ever have any misspellings or grammatical errors, I would hope that someone would point it out to me. I know I am not perfect, and I do make mistakes in my writing. I appreciate it when someone helps me out. I will in return help them out. That is a very good way to make friends on this site. Thanks for posting this. I enjoyed reading it, and I agree with your rules.

    becca


  • ChangedMyname
    August 18, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I giggle like a schoolgirl on crack when, in a posting about disqualification on the basis of violated grammar rules, you have a great number of sentance fragments. Yes... keep up the good work!


  • Meridian
    August 18, 2004
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    10/10

    From a personal standpoint I don't think there is anything wrong with enforcing this rule Gregg. This is a community of writers after all and if there is one thing that will reduce the appeal of a written piece it's bad spelling and grammar. It's even more annoying when taking into consideration the fact that there is a spell check feature available to all writers, I'm aware that it doesn't pick up on all spelling mistakes for example if someone wrote bare when meaning bear, but as you've written above getting a second opinion will prevent this. I know fellow writers will pick up on any spelling errors or grammatical glitches that any of us write but in this instance you're talking about a contest so the entry should be proof read prior to and not during the contest. Also it's not up to our fellow poets to proof read and correct our work, when submitting our work to this site we're doing it to be read with appreciation not to be proof read. I'm always greatful when an error is pointed out to me but I feel bad about the fact that it was there to begin with as it is my job to ensure my work it correct. Also anyone who does have an error pointed out and fails to correct it before the closing date is simply asking to be disqualified. The rules clearly say to change it and if it doesn't get change then clearly they don't want to win, simple as.


  • cherche -d -ame
    August 18, 2004
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    Oh Gregg , now you made me smile...and I do understand the rules for the contest , as I do see some things written on here at times that are impossible to read.....lmbo, go back to your comment second one above this....thaterror<----improper spacing...taking two of my points back
    Reenie


  • Barbara gold member
    August 18, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    My largest peeve is when you mention to someone that there are spelling mistakes, or it doesn't fit the contest rules on some easy to change level, and they don't bother to change it. Even when you point out exactly which words are misspelled or incorrect (your instead of you're, their instead of they're, etc)


  • lordoftherings gold member
    August 18, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Jane: thank you for pointing out that error and I have now corrected it, including using a question mark at the end of my phrase, even though it is a rhetoric question that could or could not use one. It sounds better with the question mark at the end. Also thank you for your comment on this debate of one rule that appears on my contest page. Gregg
    Edited on Aug 18, 12:15 because ''.


  • lordoftherings gold member
    August 18, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Lisa au contraire because in the rules I have made room for exceptions if the author let's me know ahead of time of this preferred style, I can think of one author on here that has her own unique style that I am fully aware of and an excellent writer...and I know she takes the care to make sure that her work is presentable...the only thing she doesn't use is Capitalization and Emily Dickinson is one of my favourite writers with her enjambment and purposely capitalized Germanic words in her poems and I find no contradiction in that because the author has made us aware of it Gregg
    Edited on Aug 18, 12:14 because ''.


  • cvillelisa
    August 18, 2004
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    I'm with the group that says "It's your contest ..do what you will with the rules" with the caveat that you maintain the same rules for all entries. Having said that, in my opinion Plinky is one of the most unique writers on this site because of her ability to massacre the language in the most beautiful of poetic ways. So the freedom goes both ways. You follow a very strict format and as you know a poet such as cummings or modern poet Ntozake Shange would likely chuckle at your restrictions. But I would imagine they would not be your preferred style of published poets! I can dig your rules. Peace, Lisa


  • August 18, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I applaud your rule!


  • Nicolisis
    August 18, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Bad spelling really annoys me too. The only problem that I sometimes come across is the spellings in English and American English and of how they are very different. I always try and make sure that as I am English my spellings are correct for where I come from - and if someone doesn't like that I spelled Centre like this instead of like this Center then that is their problem.

  • oneluckygirl
    August 18, 2004
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    "if I was not to make sure I followed my own rule, then how can I expect others."

    Gregg, I'm just sure you MEANT that first word to be capitalized, right? ha ha ha

    Your rule is valid. Tell folks to simply get their shorts out of their crack.

    hugs,
    Jane
    Edited on Aug 18, 6:19 because ''.

  • Dormouse
    August 18, 2004
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    i've notice in a lot of contest that most of the rules for disqualification are really arbitrary (the "author's box" quotes, mandatory commenting, etc.). correct spelling, in my opinion, should come natural to anyone 18+ years of age. after 12 years of school and such, you'd hope so. although, i do believe that giving helful reminders to someone, so they can proofread their work before the final cut, is ok. i just think it shouldn't really be a make or break thing, you know? just my two cents. all in all, despite what anyone says about your rules or judging, they're still YOUR rules and YOUR the judge. don't even sweat it, you have valid reasons for your actions. don't second-guess a thing.

  • bowie
    August 18, 2004
    Edit | Reply

    good

    I write Contest all the time and find myself giving way to the people who enter their poems without fallowing the rules, because well, im week. LOL. the last contest I had I gave everyone who entered a applause and some people extra points, even though I didn't particularly like thier poem or think it well done. Thsi is because I always have thsi overpowering voice int eh back of my head saying, be nice, don't say that, that could hurt their feelings. It takes a lot more guts then I got to stand up and say, these are the rules, stand by them or get out. I don't think I will ever be able to do it, because, well, Of that little voice in my head that says, Thats not a very ncie thing to say. LOL. So I salute your being able to stand by your rules. Keep up the good work!

    Bowie of the knfie and spear.


  • Hinemoa silver member
    August 18, 2004
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    As a friend of Gregg's I will stand by him, he is a very caring person! If you took the time to get to know him you will see what a wonderful man he really is. As it is your contest Gregg, you run it your way, as everyone else has a right to run their's
    I am behind you 100% Gregg...Your Sally...


  • jonnyfaint
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    nice, haha, i was expecting like a poem, but you know what sucks not many people like crique its stupid, ohh well

  • Jay Is Magic
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    First off, it's Gregg's contest. He is allowed to have any rules that he wants. If they seem to be 'holier than thou' to one of you, then obviously you need be kicked out of the carriage that your parents are pushing you in. It's what he expects when he puts HIS earned points on the line, and it should be HIS decision. If you don't like it, don't enter. Don't whine about them either. Gregg is one of the kindest people that I have ever encountered, and he just expects a standard.
    For some reason, Gregg isn't as harsh as it is being made out to be. I stand behind his Disqualification Rule as if I were to enter a contest and I didn't follow the rules set forth... why not be disqualified? Not only that, it is an extremely fair rule.
    I've noticed a lot of ignorance and child-like behaviour in commenting to the column. Grow up.
    Stop crying about this rule. It's a rule that should be enforced in more contests.


  • -LizBTropez-
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    There is far too much half arsed crap on here masquerading as poetry (I am guilty of it too, sometimes). I take my time and read poems thoroughly and try to do an in-depth critique. If there's mistakes, I point them out and provide suggestions or corrections. I acknowledge efforts to expand vocabulary, and use fresh rhymes. Anyways, if people don't like your rules, then they should simply NOT ENTER. They are depriving themselves of a valuable learning opportunity though if they don't make an effort to improve.


  • nike gold member
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I simply look at it this way: It is your contest, your points at stake, and your reputation as a judge that is on the line. You should be able to make and stictly abide by any rules you choose. These rules however are not silly rules like "Put AC/DC ROCKS in the author comments" which I always find extremely stupid. You are inspiring people to put forth effort, most people choose not to do that and that is okay for them, it doesn't have to be okay for you and thus they are rightly disqaulified.

    Keep writing.


  • starharbor
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Oh, Canada! Well, "colour" me "embarrassed."
    Edited on Aug 17, 10:51 p.m. because ''.


  • lordoftherings gold member
    August 17, 2004
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    Don't tell anyone Starharbor: I'm Canadian and it's cold up here, double -rr so we don't freeze our double -ss! Gregg

  • angeliciceangel
    August 17, 2004
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    i dont know, i do see how spelling can get bothersum if you have to read something sooooo poorly done, but i think in general some most of the time people dont realize that they made the mistakes so it is really hard to catch them
    just my opinion since you had the chance to voice yours

  • starharbor
    August 17, 2004
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    Word of advice: "embarassing," not "embarrassing."

  • seaflame
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    well no one can say you havn't tried to get the rules straight


  • FlawedDestiny
    August 17, 2004
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    I don't understand why people would need to complain and whine about your spell check rule. I for one use it everytime I write a poem. It doesn't make sense to do otherwise. People are so offended because you want proper English and spelling? Hm..that's just odd to me. I pride myself on sounding intelligent. I've made errors of course, but it's always an embrassment to me. Good for you for sticking to what you think is right!!
    ~*Destiny*~


  • MagicLady silver member
    August 17, 2004
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    I have entered your contests many times....and I have learned so very much because you are a great teacher. All of you who are making Gregg sound like a "greater than thou" person...you are barking up the wrong tree. He is a very loving and giving person. He will help anyone who asks for it. I have gotten help many times from him. Just because he asks more from us does not make him think he is "better than we are"

    I have so much to learn. I will learn where I can, and from whom I can. Isn't that why we are here?

    Cheryl
    You go Gregg!!!


  • -theheartofme-
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    steps on box

    first it is your friggin contest.. whatever rules you wanna use its your game...second, you arent forcing them to enter..so fuck the whining bullshit..and third you are being more than gracious by allowing them time to change the mistake. so, they have been forewarned, chose to enter, and been giving time to fix stuff...

    boo fucking hoo if you get disqualified because you screwed up people...this isnt kindergarten.

    steps off box..rant over

  • KeepingTheStars
    August 17, 2004
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    "or you havent taken a in depth course in grammer and spelling I dont even want you to try to enter my contest"

    whoops, a should be 'an'... an in depth course....

    Oh and teh should be the... are you not going to read my comment because I had a typo? Grow up sweetheart.
    Edited on Aug 17, 7:04 p.m. because ''.

  • KeepingTheStars
    August 17, 2004
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    First as my two cents to Plinky- Even while I text message on my cell phone, I still use proper english and also periods and commas where they are needed.

    Now lordoftherings,

    I must say, that I am not always perfect with my grammer, but I do try. I do think that you are a little harsh, not everyone spells correctly all the time and some people, although intelligent dont know when to use, too or to. And that is not something that should be held against them. We are here as a community and we are supposed to help one another the best we can. To just disqualify someone without actually pointing out the errors and giving them a chance to correct them is just like you saying, "I'm in college, therefore if you arent as smart as I am, or you havent taken a in depth course in grammer and spelling I dont even want you to try to enter my contest, because your writing isnt good enough for me." That is what I got out of your crazy little rules. I would probably not enter your contest just for the simple fact, you are putting people down by not giving them a chance when they make a mistake. I am possitive that you are not perfect.

    As for me, I always mix up breath and breathe. Does that make me not as smart as you? I also tend to forget apostrophes, unless I am using the word, I'm, because it just looks funny without it, but with dont and doesnt, I usually forget, does that make me not as smart as you? Or does that make my writing less well written? NO.

    Also, you make a big deal about puncuation.. I for one, hardly ever use puncuation in my poems, maybe commas, but no periods. I dont know how to use every form of puncuation so if I missed something in one of my poems, it would hurt me if someone said, "I am not going to read your poem because you forgot to use an apostrophe." Hell, not everyone knows if the puncuation goes inside or outside of the quotation marks or if you are supposed to use a comma before you start teh quote.

    Lay off... your higher than thou act is un attractive and it is childish. And what was the reason for posting this list of contest rules? So that you could make yourself feel better?

    I am an academic student also, and although, when I hold contest I dont allow CoNFuSEd caPs nor do I allow words such as: u, 2, y, cuz, 2gether... because that is over doing it, but I am not so mean as to say, that if you spell something incorrectly I will disqualify you, that is going a little far dear.

    You are in college right? Then grow up a little bit and help others with their writing instead of putting them down because they dont write as well as you do.

    Cristina


  • cutiepie gold member
    August 17, 2004
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    Terific

    Punctuation is something I am hopeless at, so I appreciate having a contest where it is so important to get it right. Makes one use their brain Thank you


  • melphleg gold member
    August 17, 2004
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    Speaking as one who spells poorly, I applaud this rule and think it is entirely fair. Your explanation is sound and just.
    Edited on Aug 17, 6:50 p.m. because ''.


  • misselaineous
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    it's so good to have standards
    i have few ~ i am just a slut and a sloven
    but i do continue to aspire [or is that expire]
    I hope that that is okay?
    giggles...
    good on yer Greg x
    elaine


  • astralshepherd gold member
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Thank you, Gregg, I appreciate your clarity and efforts in making yourself clear. As one who dwells in the lower reaches of literary understanding, I look forward to having your post contest elvaluations. Heck, just being able to have something to enter in one of your contests is a high point for me. Blessings and best wishes, ~richard


  • plinkyponk
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply


  • plinkyponk
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    well this makes it very difficult for me as i never do any punctuation as it slows me up and i never use commas either or apostrophes or capital letters. i use a full stop and thats it. plus i like writing things how they sound such as hillhairyarse and pom for poem and other things so i could never enter your contests you will be relieved to know. i just write as i speak. i suppose its extremely rude of me really not to have a bit of care and do things properly. i never like doing things properly its a hang up that i have. pretty much like your hang up about dong things right. i think its cute when people do spelling mistakes. sometimes they are funny like when i just typed dong instead of doing. and you still know what i mean. la la la. however if i did ever enter one of your competitions it might be quite fun to do it your way if i had a poem i might do that. i respect and can understand your reasons and they sound very good and i have noticed that when people start committing rrors in spelling and such that it does sort of spread out and make you confused. i think its the influence of texts on mobile phones as well thats spreading and in a way its how spelling evolves isnt it. didnt words used to have more 'e's in them and 'f's are now 's's. things change so who knows what sort of things will and wont be acceptable in the future i wonder. i think its good you have standards too and that theres room for everything and everyone and diversity is what makes things interesting.

  • Northern Redneck
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I, for one, completely agree with you. English is the primary language of most of us, so shouldn't we know how to use it correctly? Besides, the computer will do a spell check for you if you take the time to use it. Proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar were very highly stressed where I went to school so bad language and poor spelling and improper punctuation are kind of a pet peeve of mine. Thank you for taking the time to stress the importance of them.
    Edited on Aug 17, 12:01 because 'I mispelled a word'.


  • MysticalMelindy
    August 17, 2004
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    I agree about everything. There is a spell check on the site, it only takes a couple of clicks and...well would you look at that, all corrected! If there wasn't one, I could understand. But people have no excuse now, and no reason to get upset at disqualifications or comments due to their spelling errors. I liked this column, I agree with it all. Those seem like very fair rules to have for a contest, I hope you get many entries.

  • beetle
    August 17, 2004
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    i like your standards; i hate it when you're reading a perfectly good poem and then it's tainted by a simple mistake, or many. why do some people have a problem with having to make their work presentable? ...cheers


  • Einstein on Crack
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    like your standards ... good luck with the competition

  • I left ap
    August 17, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    this is really stupid ... i dont know why i clicked this pos.

    †vampyr†

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