This judging system is written to help all judges in determining which poems should be highly esteemed, and selected as the top choices in their contests. Please do not feel intimidated by the concepts in the categories listed below, nor be discouraged from writing just because you can not write at the top level in each of the ideals listed. We are all learning and developing our God-given talents, and Allpoetry is about helping each other, sharing our ideas in writing, and having fun. No one should be out to cut anyone down, regardless of the level of writing skill the writer has. The judging is based on a 100 point system, with the highest possible score being 100 points. I list 10 areas which can be rated from 1 to 10 points. The categories are listed and explained below.
(1) BEAUTY, POWER, EDUCATION, or ENTERTAINMENT
At the very least, poems need to have one of these values, and if it has more than one, so much the better!
A. BEAUTY - A poem can be beautiful in its combination of colorful and descriptive language, beautiful word pictures, the beauty in the thoughts which are evoked: such as serenity, nature, the cosmos, idealism, inspiration; or perhaps even beauty in the general appearance of the poem, as it looks on paper. Some poems are shaped and formed to appear as something connected to the poem's subject matter, such as a lamp, an hour glass, a tree, a sail boat, a loaf of bread, etc. This, in itself, if the writer has done a good job, should be worth extra points.
B. POWER - A powerful poem is one that moves you, stirs your passion, hits you square between the eyes, lifts you up emotionally and makes you feel good inside, or takes you, the reader, into the depths of sorrow and pathos, flaming rage, or bitter disappointment. It may lift you up mentally and take you to exotic and far off places, or take you back in time and place you in the middle of some cataclysmic or earth-shaking event (Lord Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade" is a good example). One way to gage the power of a poem is to gage the emotional impact it has on you personally. Does it put a lump in your throat or move you to tears? Does it make you angry? Are you sorrowful? Or perhaps you are awe-struck, overjoyed, filled with wonder and amazement.
C. EDUCATION - Does the poem have any educational value? The poem "Charge of the Light Brigade" is a very beautiful poem, written in powerful language, and since it is based on a historical event, has great educational value. You can see where points A,B,& C should cause us to rate this poem highly. However, we shouldn't necessarily assume a poem has no educational value just because it is not based on true events. The events may be plausible, hypothetical, give us a valuable lesson, or moral, and have great educational value. Also, keep in mind, just because a poem has educational value does not give it license to reject beauty. Education is "enlightenment" and should be treated as such, and not as a dry lecture, a tirade against the "ignorant," or come across as "holier than thou" and show contempt toward those who do not have "higher education."
D. ENTERTAINMENT - Does the poem have entertainment value? If it is not in some way beautiful, powerful, or educational, then it should certainly serve to entertain or amuse the reader. This could include such things as humor, irony, rhyming riddles, mystery, drama, horror, science fiction, parody, and satire. Using the 4 points of A,B,C,& D, I would have to give Lord Tennyson's poem a perfect 10 in this group rating. In reality, Tennyson masterfully uses all 4 of these points in his classic poem. Beauty, power, education, are given to us in a delightfully entertaining way.
A poem need not necessarily have all four of these points to rate a perfect 10 in this category. In fact, if it uses only one of the above values in a superb way, give it the full 10 points.
(2) MESSAGE & INTEREST
Message and interest are at the heart of the poems "reason for being." It gives it legitimacy. If it is only of interest to the writer, then it doesn't deserve to be in the public arena. Ask yourself, is the message clear? Is it a good message, or is it of little value to anyone? Is the subject matter profound, or is it trite? A poem dealing with trivial matters or concerns should not rate as highly in this category, unless it is of keen interest (entertainment) to the majority of people. "Love" is not a trivial matter, whereas your own personal love life may be a trivial matter to others. On the other hand, it may be of great interest to others, depending on how it is written, so the judge must be able to balance the message value and the interest level when judging in this category.
You must rate the poem fairly, even if the topic or subject matter of the poem is of little interest to you. Let's say you don't like the game of golf, and you were asked to judge the merits of a humorous golf poem. You would have to ask yourself, "Would someone who likes this game find this poem of great interest?" Then rate the poem accordingly. If you cannot see where the poem's message is clear, or where it is of any importance to anyone, and you do not see much possible interest in the poem for you or others, then you would have to give the poem a low score in this area. Poems with profound concepts, and/or unforgettable "punch lines," or endings, should be given extra credit. Score between 1 & 10.
(3) TECHNICAL EXCELLENCE
If a poem is riddled with grammatical errors, misspelled words, double negatives, wrong punctuation marks, with "your" for "you're," "there" for "their" or "they're," "toll" for "tole," "bear" for "bare," etc., etc., then it needs to be rated accordingly. These types of mistakes also take away from the beauty of the poem, so you would have to dock points from the first category as well. However, keep in mind that technical excellence is more than using proper grammar and spelling. It also includes the way a poem is organized, and how the thoughts are presented. Does it have the proper form for the type of poem: Haiku, Villanelle, Sonnet, Tanka, Limerick, etc.? Is it titled appropriately? Should the lines be shortened? Is there proper "economy" of thoughts and words? Should the overall poem be shortened and streamlined? Does it reveal too much and leave little to the imagination, or does it not reveal enough? Perhaps there should be another "fill in" verse. Does the poem "work" - that is, does it accomplish what it sets out to do?
Giving a poem some time to "digest" will often reveal to us what it needs or what it lacks. I have written poems which at first I thought were excellent, but the same poems have since been either totally re-written, or relegated to the "reject" bin. One cannot always tell the special qualities of a poem with the first reading. If a poem is technically correct, and has a finished professional look, give it the full 10 points for this category.
(4) RHYME and/or METER
Poems don't have to rhyme to rate highly in this category, but rhyming poems need meter as well as rhyme. If a poem is written in rhyming verse, then it should be rated according to how well the rhymes fit, not only with each other, but with the flow and the intended nuance of meaning the verse demands. Read and study the rhymes in Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's poem "The Builders" as an excellent example of good rhyming verses with beautiful cadence. A poem needs to have some sort of acceptable meter (rhythm or cadence). Meter/rhythm can alternate from line to line, and even from verse to verse, but they should form a pattern that creates a pleasing effect. Even in free verse, the words need to form their own pleasant rhythm and not clash with each other, cause clumsy pauses, twist the tongue, (unless it's meant to be a tongue-twister!) or put emphasis in the wrong places.
An excellent example of good rhyme and meter, with a powerfully emotional ending, is found in Edna St. Vincent Millay's poem "The Ballad of the Harp Weaver." Notice how the words are phonetically pleasing, the rhymes are excellent, and the syllables in the words create a natural and pleasant rhythm, even though the poem itself is sad. This creates an emotionally satisfying experience for the reader. It is not just a collection of sad thoughts on a page. Score up to 10 points for exceptional rhyme and meter.
(5) ASSONANCE and ALLITERATION
Assonance in poetry has to do with the sounds of the
words, and whether those sounds create the proper mood sought for in the poem: the sharp and soft sounds of the consonants, the hard (long) and soft sounds of the vowels. A good example of pleasing assonance is found in Edgar Allen Poe's "The Bells," in which you can almost hear the bells ringing in the words themselves. Another good example of using vowel and consonant sounds to the best advantage is found in the free-verse poem "Lincoln, Man of the People" by Edwin Markham. The author uses powerful words and powerful sounds to express powerful thoughts. In tranquil and pastoral type poems one would want to see words like softly, peacefully, quietly, hushed, etc., and not a lot of words that "snap, crackle, and pop." In describing a battle, one would hardly think of using a lot of soft and placid sounds.
Alliteration has to do with a pleasing repetition of sounds, such as "She soared through the air with the greatest of ease" - note the repetition of the "s" and "th" sounds. Sometimes a pleasant alliteration can be achieved by repeating whole words, such as in Poe's "The Raven" - "Nevermore" and "Lenore" among other repeated words. For excellent sound quality, give a poem up to ten points, for average, 4-6, and for poor quality, 1-3 points.
(6) FORM & FLOW
The "form" of the poem simply refers to the shape the poem takes on paper: long lines or short lines, broken into verses, or left in an unbroken chain. Normally, a poet would strive to keep some kind of pleasant symmetry and balance in his/her verses; keeping corresponding lines close to the same length, so that each verse appears similar in size and shape to the rest. Also, it is not good to have a "bristled" appearance in a poem, where some lines stick out like misplaced bristles, giving it an unpolished and "skewered" or "lopsided" appearance. On the other hand, if the poem is about porcupines, or disheveled hair, a "quilled" or "bristled" appearance may be quite appropriate! Remember that good form can also be given extra points for beauty, but in granting "form" points here, make sure that the form is best suited for the poem. Study the unusual but fitting form James Whitcomb Riley used in his poem "Little Orphant Annie." Other poems to study for beauty and symmetry are Walt Whitman's "O captain, My Captain!" and Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's "The Builders." Do not penalize a writer for creating unique and original form and shape in his writings if it is fitting.
The flow of a poem is determined by its natural progression, both in thought, tempo, and speed. The words themselves, their pronunciations and emphasis, along with natural pauses at the ends of thoughts, commas, periods, etc. help determine the speed and flow of the poem. Notice the difference in flow with the following 2 lines, both expressing the same thought: "I'm going to go to work to earn my pay check" and "To work, to work, to earn a pay check." Three things serve to speed up the tempo in the second line: The use of all one syllable words, the repetition and two commas gave it more rhythm, or "bounce," (not always good in every poem) and the line itself being shortened, even though a phrase was repeated to emphasize it.
A poem describing a serene setting should naturally flow slower than a poem such as "Charge of the Light Brigade." Certain emotions should cause the poem to flow faster: anger, fear in the heat of battle, a desperate fight for survival, etc. (with pauses, perhaps, to "ponder" or "contemplate"). On the other hand, tranquility, satisfaction, benevolence, condolences, and love (unless it involves excitement!) lend themselves to a slower "flow" of thoughts and events, with faster flow if there are exciting moments dispersed in an otherwise serene and calm poem. A proper and professional balance in form and flow should give the poem up to 10 extra points in an overall evaluation.
(7). CHOICE OF WORDS & READABILITY
As a judge, ask yourself whether the poet has used the best possible choice of words in the poem. Assonance has to do with using the best sounding words, but here we are talking of using the words with the best nuance of meaning. Here is where a rhyming poem could be severely penalized. The words used to make the best rhyme may not necessarily be the the best choice of words to convey the idea, or stir the emotion. A person can ball, cry, sob, whimper, whine, moan, groan, and shed tears, but which term would best fit the mood the poet is trying to convey? The choice of words the writer uses should be geared toward the audience the poet intends to reach. A poem for a young child would certainly not include college-level language, nor should the poet use vulgarity and/or profanity. A religious poem, intended for religious audiences, would not include crass language, or anti-God slogans. Bigotry and racial slurs should be left out of all poems. A poem written for senior citizens should not denigrate old age. In general, all poems written for the public should show proper respect and honor to all the races, ages, ethnic backgrounds, sexes, and religions.
I feel too much criticism has been leveled against the "cliche`." If the cliche` fits, and makes the poem work, then it should not be penalized. After all, in one sense, every commonly used word in the English language is a cliche` of sorts. Many phrases are repeated time and time again, does this mean we should avoid them at all cost? A few examples are "green grass," "morning sun," "flower garden," "garden fence" "south wind," "cloudy sky," and we could list hundreds more. Even the terms most used in describing cliche`s have become cliche`s of their own: "hack-kneed" and "over-used." A cliche` is just a phrase commonly used in society, usually to make some sort of comparison or point: "dead as a door knob," "free as a bird," "smart as a whip," etc. We don't reject commonly used words in poetry, and neither should we reject commonly used phrases out of hand. I have been criticized for using the cliche` "happy as a lark" in my poem "A Fruitful Yield." I used it because it made the poem work. Had I used a term like "happy as a wren," "happy as a monkey," or "happy as a chipmunk" it would not have had the same impact, and would have degraded the poem. Sometimes old familiar phrases work much better than original ones. However, these phrases should be used sparingly, and where an original phrase is called for, or might work better, it certainly should be used.
"Poetic license" is another tool that judges need to be aware of. It is not uncommon for even the best of poets, in order to maintain correct meter, to drop a syllable from a word. A few examples are: 'round for "around," 'neath for "beneath," 'tis for "it is," 'twas for "it was," 'bout for "about." A poet may even drop a syllable out of the center of a word at times. In my song lyric "The Angels In Heaven" I spelled "ministering" as "minist'ring" in order to drop a syllable. This kind of "poetic license" is commonly used in song lyrics, and may occasionally be used in other poetry if it is done in good taste. Read Shakespeare's "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?" (one of my all time favorite sonnets) for several examples in using "poetic license."
After you have checked the author's choice of words and phrases, read a few verses out loud. Does it read easily, with the periods, commas, accents, and syllables flowing naturally, creating the proper tempo for the subject matter? Are there areas within the poem which seem to "trip" your tongue? Would it be "readable" out loud for the average person? An excellent choice of words by the author, along with good readability, should add up to 10 points in evaluating the poem as a whole.
(8) OVERALL IMPACT
Overall impact is the ability of the poem to etch itself into your memory and to become a part of your psyche. A poem may be ever so beautifully written, be technically correct in every way, have excellent rhyme, meter, form, and flow, and still not be a great poem. What makes a poem truly great is its ability to get under your skin, or to be so delightful as to be virtually unforgettable. The difference, then, between a mere "good" poem and an exceptional one is how deeply it affects you, and how long it holds you in its clutches after you are done reading it; not necessarily while you are reading it! If you can read the poem and forget about it, then the poem did not have a great overall impact on you, and it probably won't on others, either. I would give very few poems a "10" in this category, even among the "classics." This is one area where you can, and should, be brutal in your ratings. One other consideration is the age of the author. If a young child writes an exceptional poem, we should allow the age itself to "impact" us, and grant extra points in this category.
(9) ORIGINALITY
Are the word groupings and phrases the writer uses the author's own words, or are they borrowed from someone else? I am not referring to outright and intentional plagiarism, but all of us are influenced by the writings of others. It is not that difficult to determine if extra effort has been taken by a writer to coin unusual phrases, or to make unusual comparisons. Here is where using too many cliche`s can hurt the writer's overall score.
Check the rhymes to see if there is originality, or if common rhymes are used. There aren't very many words that rhyme with love. Perhaps the author needs to work harder at using the word "love" at the beginning or the middle of the sentence, so that more unusual rhyme schemes can be employed. Extra points should be given to a poet who creates his own style in the rhythm and the rhyming patterns of a poem. Rhymes don't always have to be placed at the end of lines. They can be at the beginning, or even in the middle, of sentences. Ending sentences and placing commas in the middle of a line is an effective tool in creating interesting, original, and unusual rhythms and pause patterns in a poem. A poet needs to be given extra points for originality in subject matter, phraseology, rhyme, rhythm, and style. For an unusual poem with an original, or unexpected ending, and a good amount of original wording, grant up to 10 points.
(10) POLISH & EXPERTISE
A poem can do well in all the above criteria, and still lack the flair and polish of an experienced and expert poet. In this last category, ask yourself, how well are all the elements of the poem put together to give the reader the impression that an expert poet was at work? Is the poem "seasoned with grace?" - That is, does the poem itself appear graceful, smooth, natural, almost effortless? Ask yourself: Is every word perfect, with nothing out of place, so that the whole poem, like a beautiful work of art, fits together flawlessly to form a masterpiece? A gifted poet does not need to "wax eloquent" with incomprehensible words and indecipherable phrases. Certainly you have seen beautiful figure skaters, expert ballerinas, and/or trapeze artists at work. In a flawless performance, their crafts may appear to be easy, effortless, graceful, and perhaps almost simple, but you recognize the hard work, practice, and preparation, that went into that performance. A "masterpiece" in poetry should have the same effect on you. Can you literally see the time and effort that went into the poem, or does it have the appearance of being thrown together haphazardly, with little effort at editing out clumsy wording and awkward rhymes?
You have heard the expression "without rhyme or reason." The modern trend in poetry has been moving toward poetry written with no "rhyme or reason." Poets often use mere word patterns and word assonance on paper. Poems with mere "color and design" on paper (like some modern art) have very little to offer in my book. The vast majority of people today would agree with me, that a group of words on paper is not a poem unless it has "reason for being." While there are good poems full of dark and mysterious phrases, and some are written as riddles, parables, metaphors, and guessing games, no poem should leave you feeling empty and totally perplexed as to the purpose and intent of the author. If the poem is written as a metaphor, or its purpose is to keep the reader in suspense, it should still be concluded in a way that enables the reader to understand the objective of the poem. Ask yourself whether the poet expresses feelings of anger, frustration, or some other emotion, but leaves the reader wondering why. Are the "loose ends" tied together, or does the poem leave you out in the middle of nowhere, with nowhere to go? Does the writer have a good angle, or approach in his/her poem? Poems can attack an injustice head on, and bludgeon it to death, or take a much more subtle and reasonable approach, which should merit extra points. The reason for this is that tact is considered a greater virtue than blunt confrontation. Extra points need to be given for a well thought-out and flawless "work of art" with graceful transitions and vivid imagery. Score highly in this category for poignancy, profundity, and wit, presented with class, style, and dignity.
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Each of the above areas are critical in the creation of a professionally crafted, polished, and quality poem. Once you have rated a poem in the ten categories listed, add the scores of each to get an overall rating of the poem. With an honest rating, an average poem should score somewhere close to 50 - with five points from each category. A good to very good poem should rate in the sixties to the lower eighties. It should take an exceptional poem to rate in the upper eighties. Scores of ninety and above should be reserved for the truly great poems. Whether you score points liberally or conservatively, you need to be consistent with every evaluation and rating. These scores are for you, to help you rate the poems, and should not be posted or shared with others, unless it is to tell a poet of a very high score. Never reveal an "average" or "poor" score to an aspiring poet. You may wish to share ideas with them on how they might improve, or what areas they need to work on, but for the most part, this kind of corrective criticism should be done one on one. Hopefully this system will help you in determining which poems deserve to be given a chance to win big in poetry contests. You may wish to copy and paste the points below, and print it out for future reference.
SCORE 1-10 POINTS IN FOLLOWING CATEGORIES:
(1) BEAUTY, POWER, EDUCATION, or ENTERTAINMENT
(2) MESSAGE & INTEREST
(3) TECHNICAL EXCELLENCE
(4) RHYME andor METER
(5) ASSONANCE and ALLITERATION
(6) FORM & FLOW
(7) CHOICE OF WORDS & READABILITY
(8) OVERALL IMPACT
(9) ORIGINALITY
(10) POLISH & EXPERTISE
TOTAL POSSIBLE POINTS 100
© Moses Hochstetler
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There have been many comments about this judging system, mostly positive,
but also a number of negative ones. These guidelines are not "etched in stone" and if judges think that certain categories are more important, and should be given more possible points, and others less, then that is at the judges's descretion, as long as all entry poems are judged consistantly with the same standards. There have also been some ligitimate concerns raised that this judging system might leave our young people "out in the cold" with no chance of winning in the contests. I have suggested that some members sponser contests for youth under a certain age, or within certain age brackets, giving them an opportunity to win trophies as well (this does not infer that there are no teens who are talented enough to win adult contests on their own merit). Another way that contests could be handled is to post a "HTR&JP standards" (to show that the contest sponser will apply the "How To Rate & Judge Poetry standards") at their contest site, in order to let people know that the contest will seek to impartially judge all poems and award the trophy to the best entry. This way those who work hard at writing a polished "Masterpiece" can expect at least an attempt at a fair and impartial judging of their submission.
This is given as a possible method for judges to use, and not intended as a system "etched in stone"
This judging system is written to help judges determine which poems should be selected as the top choices when judging contests
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Comments
1 - 80 of 80
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Well...how long has this treasure been hidden from me?
I need to begin to read more columns, I think. I am bookmarking this column so that I can use it as a ruler for my contest. Excellent! This column should be featured, at least once a month. Thank you for this handy tool.
BOOKMARKED!
Much Love ♥
Renee
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A wonderfully informative column!I'll definitely take these into consideration while judging lol
Thanks for taking the time to write this
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Hoosierpoet,
Thank you for this column. I am about to launch my first contest and I've found many good tips here.
well done!
rachel -
This is really alot of information you have here, but I really gald you wrote this. I always have difflecult judging because I want ever one to win and I can't make up my mind at times. I hope your information may make things a little eariser on my judging the enteries on my contests.
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This is excellent...I have been using the method used on Sharepoetry which has helped me a lot so far, but this is the one I shall turn to from now on when judging my contests...thank you...~Lilac~
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Thank you
Thank you for this excellent, comprehensive criteria for judging poetry. --Ellis -
Very informative. I have added this to my favorites, so that I can remember all of the points you have listed here.
etherealforu
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an intelligent and fair way to judge a contest, for sure. bookmarked for future use Moses, thank you and all the best
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very informative column. about 2 judge my first contest... probably wont follow this completely... but some of the categories u mentioned r stuff i look 4 anyway, such as imagery, organization, oriinionality, impact on me personally... instead of "meter" though, or maybe in addition 2 u might want 2 mention more general "rhythm" which i believe is really important even if its not following standard form and meter. how the poem flows, how it SOUNDS. also, i think it would be helpful if u included links 2 the poems u r using as examples because i am not familiar with them, so it was not very useful 4 me.
still uv made some good points here. hope this is a great resource 4 judges.
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I think is an excellent guide, and judges should be required to read this before posting a contest.
The only think it lacks is something I think should be common courtesy- READ ALL ENTRIES!
Of course if you're underage and someone enters an adult poem, have them submit something else or change the category (if it can be appropriate).
I am frankly sick near to death of contests run by judges who don't bother reading everything (and try to excuse their way out). If these guidelines were made more obvious (like a link on the contest submission page) perhaps there'd be more good judges out there.
Anyways this was great and I plan on using this to help me judge next time I hold a contest. -
Thanks for the information!
I feel much more secure now!
Lady anairO -
This was a wonderful column, and I couldn't have found it at a more appropriate time. I'm about to judge my first contest this weekend, and while, because of the very nature of the contest, much of what I'll be looking for is the emotion that "moves me," this will give me a wonderful guideline! I've read many of the comments here, and I have to agree with so many that say they have all but stopped entering contests, and for many of the same reasons. Because I do feel that way, I want to do my dead-level best to insure that my contest will not be judged on the basis of "friendship" or even (in my opinion) the misguided attempt at encouraging not so experienced poets by handing out a trophy to inferior work. Thank you so much for the time and effort you put into this very helpful, and informative piece! It's appreciated much!
Paula -
What an awesome article.
Im gonna use this for my contest. Thanks for sharing it with us, it's perfection. -
This is a wonderful article, Moses, and I am so glad I found this on the board at the elitist group. I am going to pring this out and keep it with all my little papers and stuff when writing poetry. I just wish that more people hosting contest could read this, because sometimes one can just shake your head at the some of the poems that wins trophies. Of course, as chrisstiena said here above, there is always personal taste and preferences and many times people relate to poems they can understand, lol! I also agree with you that sometimes the enormous amount of applauses on certain poems totally baffles me too! I wish more people can feast their eyes on your system of judging - it is excellent and diminishes subjective judging and favouritism (well, hopefully). Now I appreciate that gold trophy I won in your contest so much more (please forgive if I seem vain - it is not that. I just appreciate your skills! Again, wonderful my friend - this article deserves my applause!
~ Nicolette
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You are so right, Crisstiena, on several counts. for one thing - sometimes simple poems can leave a bigger overall impact, and seem to be more original in thought and idea. Also, I find that, especially on this site, there are a number of poets that get enormous amounts of applause and trophies for unimpressive poetry. A lot of this has to do with popularity - such as "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" - or "You applaud me, I applaud you" type of thing. Good observations and comments on your part - thanks for reading.
Moses -
very useful column
Thank you for posting this.
I am running my first contest and will no doubt find your guide
extremely useful. But I do think some of the judging should be
done on personal choice. A poem that you really, really like that might not have all the criteria as laid down above, can still be a worthy winner. And sometimes something really simple from a relatively unknown poet can say so much more than another poem that would normally get tons of applause.
But hey, thanks anyway! ~ crisstiena
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Hello Moses, I have taken the liberty of adding this link to our Greeters 'Help' column regarding 'Contests'.
It's clear and concise and will, I'm sure prove to be of great assistance.
Thank You
~Von~ -
very good
Don't have time to read this right now but I have printed it our as reference. The little bit I looked at seemed really well thought out.
John -
Great
I found this very helpful not only to critiqu on others work but to keep in mind when writing my own -
Hi. Peaseeker made me aware of this column, and i sure wish i knew about it before I judged so many contests. This is absolutely fabulous. I am in tears right now, because not only is this going to make me a better judge but it is going to help me clean up my own peotry, and not embarrass myself so much on here. Thank you so much for a brilliant column. I bookmarked it, but I will also print it out. Thanks again.
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Valuable
I applaud this comprehensive listing of the qualities of elegance in poetry, for you describe them in ways that can be applied, not only in judging the work of others, but more importantly in our own before submitting. I also appreciate more than you know, the legibility with white font! It allows my use of this document as a guide into the future.
Later when time permits, there are some points I would like to clarify by [im]. Just now I have to proofread and post a first chapter before the contest closes. Thank you for this!
Vanhakka -
I really want to read this column, but cannot. Even enlarged and bold as I have set it, my damaged old eyes will not let me.
Would you please change the text to white? Pale blue would do too. I am not alone with this problem--I know of at least two others who find black on dark impossible to see without severe eyestrain and possible damage to eyes.
Vanhakka
Edited on Jul 15, 9:56 p.m. because 'typo'. -
I gotta agree with a lot of the remarks I see above: this is a well thought-out system and should, if applied thoughtfully and honestly by someone at least fairly literate and with a fair amount of taste and a working knowledge of the craft, produce the desired result. I'll recommend it to anyone who ever tells me they have to judge a contest and aren't sure how.
(That is, I'll recommend this article immediately after I kid them unmercifully for allowing that situation to arise!)
I have to admit, though, that my own process isn't near as involved. I have basically 4 steps.
1) success
2) proficient crafting (formal correctness)
3) Pleasing verbal flow
4) artistically inspired vision.
They're in that order because too great a failure at any step along the way means there is no need to judge further. Basic success as a poem means that the poet has managed to convey to me as the reader what he intends me to feel, why he is writing this work, what message he intends me to carry away. There are, of course, varying degrees of this success, varying levels of artistry on the achievement of it...but he's got to achieve that success, in those three areas, for me to go on and examine the poem for the second facet, proficient crafting.
A proficiently crafted poem is an adequate representation of both form and genre...the poet has given the level of attention demanded by the voice to considerations of meter, rhyme, structure to be in keeping with his intent: even when it comes to a sonnet, for instance, different areas of the poetic arts will call for varying degrees of strict adherence to the iambic meter. I want to see the poet create up to the needs of his voice, and if he doesn't, I don't usually (when judging) look further.
If I HAVE gone further, I'm now looking past craftsmanship and have begun to consider the artistic aspects of the work: is the language assembled in such a way as to figuratively 'lean me forward'...to draw me through the wording without stumbles or breaks in the flow or in my attention. Any place where I'm forced to stop and wonder whether the poet made an error or chose an ambiguous term, any pairing of words that create verbal or physical tongue-twisting, any word that seems unlikely or misplaced in context of the poem's voice...these are stumbles to the read and disruptions of the pleasing verbal flow. Even if the topic is dark and the message unpleasant or morbid...the poem fails if reading it isn't stimulating and doesn't pull the reader to read on.
What can I objectively say about aspect 4? Sometimes, a poem shows all the aspects we just looked at, but just doesn't reach me the way I thought it should. When the dots are all connected, but the picture just doesn't come together, the artistry is off. I can't even offer guidelines for recognizing this...it's almost entirely intuitive, but it's the most vital aspect of poetry because it's what distinguishes the poetic art from word-crafting.
For obvious reasons, I'll send anyone to your article before I even TRY to tell 'em how I do it...'cause I seriously suspect my way only works if you come up with it on your own, Moses...which makes folks pretty lucky you went to all this trouble!
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I think you have a well thought out set of rules to judge by here. I am glad you have shared them with us.
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I really liked the column Moses and agree that we need more objective criteria in our judging. I think I browsed over this column in the past, but I wished I had paid closer attention before judging my contest. I posted my own 5 objective criteria before the contest started and sent everyone there score and breakdown before the contest ended.
One thing that I had in my list that wasn't explicitly in yours would be "showing instead of telling." I feel like this is the greatest error our young people have in their poetry writing and it is pretty much accepted as a flaw by all poetry teachers (and books) that I have encountered.
I am really dismayed at the post-modern direction poetry is heading these days. At the same time, I think we all can rise above sing-song greeting card sentimental mush.
I am learning so much from you. So glad you're around!
Jennifer -
I'm running my first contest at the moment, and to be honest, i don't think it matters who's written the poem. I read the poem and judge purely on whether i feel the poem is a good one. I certainly don't check to see whether the author has won many trophies before. I use a database to help me judge my contest (on a much simpler version of the ablove criteria). In order to make it totally fair, i number the entries as they come in on the database and judge them based on their number, not the title or author, and then i check to see who it is. This particularly helps when someone enters a few poems, as a don't judge later poems because i thought their earlier entries were good or not.
Having said that, i do recognise that some people will reward poems which are worse than other entries, but there's not much point talking about it, as these people will continue to judge unfairly no matter what.
It's not fair that some good poets don't get recognition, but i think that even if you enter a contest and don't win, a lot of people will still read your entry. And most judges do comment on all the entries - i think its just common courteusy to give feedback, even if you are being critical.
XXXX -
Well I have read about one hour and the discussion makes me crazy But let me draw a conclusion out of it all- I will create a fair judging system out of it all as a conclusion. I have posted a contest and it is too late to add new rules- but for my next contest there will be a new rule:
Each writer has to come back when the contest is closed- he will have to read all other entries and will have to name his three favorites(except his own poem )
The poem with the most votes from all writers will get the first place and so on- I think this is fair- should there be two with the same count I will send out a new IM to tell them to decide between them- I think this will be fair- I think their will not only friends post to give away a trophy to friends- fair enough? -
leave the strict rules
i'm relatively new here and i'm thinking of hosting my first contests.i read the rules for judging and although they may seem a bit stringent,i feel that they display a great degree of fairness.in all honesty,if these rules were followed,some of those with an abundant of trophies would now be seeing less.entering a contest is optional,so when you choose to do so,you should be required to put your best foot forward.if not,why not just give your points away in the first place.i'm using this site to become a poet,so i welcome the constructive critiques.i do however consider than anyone who chooses to host a contest should be compelled to read all entries.limit the contest in a way that will allow you to handle the amount of entries.employ the help of others,but don't just not read the entry.host do have the tendency to read the entries of poets they are familiar with and choose the winners from there.that's why a more strict judging system would go a long way in ensuring that the best entry will win.not only that,if there were a rating system just for contest entries,then the ones that don't win will understand why and would be inclined to improve in the areas they are lacking in.contests should be used as a teaching tool to help those serious about their writes to move to another level in their work.a system that will say,see how much you have improved or see what you need to work on.so i say the contests should be entered in if you think you are good enough to win.but there are criteria that has to be met in order to win.you can accept not being the winner a lot easier if you knew the weakest of your work.if the score to win is 100 and i got an 85,and i knew were those weak points were found,the next time i enter a contest,my write would be on point.i wouldn't throw something together and call it poetry.this,of course is for people striving to create true poetry.let's face it,there is a lot of crap passed off as poetry and some of it has won contest.so the judging system,if it seeks to improve,should have those stringent rules to adhere to.maybe there should be contests for the beginner poets and the judging system for that would work according to the ability of the entries,be not as strict.in mt short stay here,i'm already disillusioned with contests,but i'm still going to try one.avy pointers to make this one unique? -
First, I want to say that I found this column informative. It provided several methods that can be applied in judging a contest. I didn't agree on everything, but who does? I will take from it what I can use, and leave what I can't...simple as that. So, Hoosierpoet, thanks for sharing...I will apply some of this in the future.
Now...I've also seen a lot of contests entries go unread and without comment by the contest holder. I do not agree with this practice, as I read and comment on EVERY entry in my contests, but I can't tell anyone else how to run their own contest. So, I keep the pen name in mind and steer clear of that person's future contests.
I've also been very suprised and confused by the outcome of some contests. (no, I'm not one of those who IM's the contest holder questioning their decision). I know we all have different tastes. I know our various experiences in life will leave us more touched by some writes than others...that's expected. But I'm talking about the gold going to a poem that was so obviously worse than 70% of the other entries that it was painful. This is disturbing to me. There is no denying that most poetry sites are one big popularity contest....clique crazy! Seriously, it's like high school...but this is no way to judge a public poetry contest. If you want to pass trophies and points out to your friends, you should hold a "My Friends Only" contest...spare everyone else the waste of time.
I'm one of the poets who has thrown a "Trophyless" contest. My reasoning? Simple! There are a lot of excellent poets on this site with countless trophies. There are a lot of excellent poets on this site with few or no trophies. As good as we are, there's always someone better, right? Well, if all the "someone betters" enter one contest...then the excellent poet one step down from them is never going to be recognized. I think they need the encouragement. I think that those with 20 or more trophies have received enough encouragement to carry them over through the one little "trophyless" contest thrown out every now and then. I mean, c'mon, would you like to face down Poe, Wilde, and Dickinson in every poetry contest you entered? Sure the challenge is good most of the time but, sometimes, you just want a chance. Naena
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actually that sounds good on the surface Maureen, but people would just IM the contest runner with the title of the poem they wrote, and they would end up giving the trophies to their friends anyway.
Im done with entering contests. Ill be doing a helluva lot of research on someone who gives out contests before I enter again. Im tired of trying, coming up with something, entering it and being told "yours was probably the best, but you already have so many trophies already"
why bother?
Like thathom said, ever thought that the poets who have the trophies, got them because they worked on their poem and did a good job on it? Maybe those poets are considered good, because they have been writing poetry for years.....and youll notice, not many of us who got our trophies over the past few years in FAIR contests, are entering contests anymore.
its pointless.
so those of you who IM us and beg us to enter your contests, simply because you only have a few entries, and those entries are only in your contests because they are your friends.....dont bother IMing me. I wont enter your contests anymore.
but thats just me.
not to mention. some of the contests I have seen judged, havent even READ ALL their enteries. There have been contests I have seen judged and some of the entries havent even been LOOKED at. How can that be fair?
anyway, Im fed up with this place in the area of contests.
if I put on a contest, I judge ALL the entries, I read ALL of them and comment on ALL of them. If you run a contest, at least have the respect enough to your entrants to comment on their poems. and I think Maureen has a very valid point. You should limit the number or at least close it up early if you have more than you can handle.
ok, off I go to write something. or umm at least think about writing it.
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If there could be a way to enter poems in contests without the judges seeing the poet's name, I think that would help insure a fair contest. (When a group of people were asked to judge quotations without knowing who wrote them, it was amazing how many chose quotations written by very unpopular authors. I am sure we would see the same results in a poetry contest if the author's name wasn't known.) I also think there should be a limit to the number of poems that can be submitted to a contest. The average person does not have 10 to 20 minutes to devote to judging each poem when they have 100+ entries to judge (or even 50 for that matter). JMHO
Maureen -
This is a nice thought.
But judges will be judges and that means they decide what's good or bad, regardless of the rules. If the judge likes crappy non ryhming story type illiterate nonesense poems, they'll win.
Someone up there said people are fed up of the well known names winning... Has anyone thought that maybe the well known names are actually very good poets? You can't create your own competition so the crap poet can feel like they're good at what they do.
The defeats the whole objective of being "tallented".
If your crap at writing poetry, you need to get better so you become a well known name. It's like poetry is turning into Modern Art. "I'm crap at drawing so I'll paint a messed up red cicle on some sand paper, give it a meaning and its the best thing on the planet"....
Poo.
Poo poo poo.
If you want false recognition and little trophies awarded to yourself for not recognising your a bit of a poo poet, then fair enough. But when you don't win a prize, its because of 3 reasons.
1. Your entry wasnt as good as the winner
2. The judge doesnt appreciat your work and has a different view to what's good or bad, regardless of the proper rules above.
3. The judge likes to make competitions so they can reward their bestest friends in the whole galaxy a trophy when they enter. Regardless of it being a big bag of crap.
RARRR
Tiger
me.
Going.
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"I will see, if the site administrator has no objections, whether contests that are strictly based on meeting certain quality standards (such as using my criteria, or some other set of standards) cannot be labeled as such when they are posted."
People can post rules in the poem description area on any judging techniques they will be using....most everyone does it.
Everyone who enters any of my contests has an equal opportunity of winning...as long as the rules are followed...and as long as they don't IM me and say they hope they win....that is ever so annoying.
Has anyone noticed that a lot of the contests are for "trophyless" poets? That's because some people are tired of the "well known names" always winning.....while the "well known names" don't want to enter anymore because someone else besides them win. It's a never ending ego inspired cycle that's not going to stop, regardless of what rules someone wants to incorporate. -
I'm not sure if I would use these because some things (like 'message' and 'impact' are so personal that I don't believe they can be part of an impartial judgement system - how, for example, can 'a judge' say that the 'message' of a poem is invalid - even if only valid to 2 people, the poem was still fit-for-purpose) and other techniques, such as assonance and alliteration, may not be used in a perfectly good poem.
I think these guidelines would be extremely good for someone 'in-between' - if they don't know enough, then they might become bureacratic and 'know it all' (and we've all seen people like that here at AP), and if they have a world of experience they probably have these things absorbed on a subtle more 'live-with' level. If the person is in between these two points, however, the list would be ideal ... the thing is, the people who judge badly don't usually do it because they don't understand poetry but because they are biased and/or lazy (like the person who openly admitted giving 1st, 2nd, and 3rd to the top 3 poems on the list in their contest and commented on NONE. That P'ed me right off!).
A good solution would be to have this list as guidelines BUT have no names visible on contest poetry till after it is judged - that might prevent bias. I don't think there is a solution for 'laziness' - maybe charge 'points interest' on contests after the deadline, so it costs you 10 a day unless you judge it or something. -
I know! And the worst thing is that when I see rules my hackles rise! lol
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Oh no! I feel a bureaucracy brewing....
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Moses, at the risk of sounding like my dear old pappy; now you're talking. Those "Masterpieces" are also welcome in my contests, as long as the writer understands what I'm looking for. My latest seeks profound wisdom, and is open to anyone who can convey a message that I feel was touched by God. I care more about the message, than the way it is delivered; and more about who the writer is than what he/she is. Therefore, each writer who enters must understand that content is more important to me than structure. Others can do it in any manner they like. Perhaps I may even host a contest, down the road, that focuses on structure over content. Though I think my next contest will be on general appeal. Can a poet write a piece that can charm the young without losing the interest of the more mature reader? I suppose we’ll find out soon enough. In the meantime, having a few separate contests that focus on structure will allow everyone an equal opportunity to win a trophy. Perhaps then, a well structured piece will receive it’s due, and be proclaimed a “Masterpiece” by someone other than the writer. Take care, and have a good evening.
Mark
Edited on Jan 13, 5:05 because ''. -
Mark, you may have some good points. I will see, if the site administrator has no objections, whether contests that are strictly based on meeting certain quality standards (such as using my criteria, or some other set of standards) cannot be labeled as such when they are posted. This way, those individuals who work hard at creating a "masterpiece" will not be passed over in order to give our youth an opportunity to be recognized. I have talked to a number of people on this site who no longer want to enter contests because they feel they are unfairly ignored, and I am sure the same goes for many of the young people. By stipulating in some of the contests that "This contest adheres strictly to the HTR&JP standards" - contestants would understand that the contest sponser would at least attempt to be impartial regardless of who posts. Would you consider that a fair way of dealing with this probelm?
Best wishes,
Moses -
Moses, I don't agree with stacking the deck either. That is why I believe these criteria should be used for nothing other than deciding ties. Using these guidelines to judge the general population would unfairly stack the deck in your favor, wouldn’t it? And rather than create separate contests for the unskilled, we should do it for the skilled. There are fewer skilled poets than unskilled poets on this site. Therefore, I believe a separate forum should be created for the minority, not the majority.
Our youth should not be herded off to the playground. It is a handful of would be poet laureates that want to turn All Poetry into the Dead Poets Society. Let them have the playground. Why should the young people, who out number us two to one, have to be segregated? The bottom line is this; judges are going to pick what appeals to them. I have been overlooked countless times in contests. I’ve won my share as well. That is the nature of the game. I have adapted, as have a number of poets who are, in my humble opinion, quite talented. I can’t tell you how many times I have observed contests where the poem I thought should win did not. That experience has taught me how to adapt, and how to deal with losing. To coin a phrase; Life is not a picnic, and our poet laureates need to learn to deal with real life. The majority of Americans read and write at a sixth grade level; that’s reality. The privileged few who want to make this all about them can create their own little clique. They can separate themselves from the main flock, and form an awe inspiring elite group. Our youth, and our average Joe’s and Jane’s have been here much longer than I have; and I haven’t the right to enter their forum and tell them they have to change it because the glory that is me has come into their midst. And neither does anyone else. Good evening.
Mark
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Great but...
I agree with Mark Spencer on the aspect that while this is a very good guide- I personally judge a poem by how I feel towards it personally. I believe that not all the best poems have to have polish or expertise, nor do they need to have a specific technique and I believe every poem is original as every person is original. While some poems may contain the same ideas or typical lines as other poems do, like people it is the overall thing that makes them unique. I do feel that grammar and spelling is very important, however if a poem has an amazing message I can get past the minor imperfections of it, as long as they are minor/medium.
One example is a poem written by my younger sister when she was younger. She doesn't write much but she wrote this when she was young, maybe 9, and I still to this day think about the poem. She used simple language, it had no rhyme and barely and meter, wasn't polished or technical- but it was still amazing. Here at allpoetry that is what counts in a contest- the poem should be the one that you think about immediately when thinking first place because it is your contest, not an admission to a literature book.
This was not meant to be harsh, for I agree that this is a grea way to judge a poem, however I disagree that this should be used to judge allpoetry contests due to the nature of the wide range of education and personalities in the registered users.
~Zeek -
This is fine, Mark, but then what you are doing is not judging for quality poetry, but passing out cups to build egos. Life is not a picnic, and our young children also need to learn to deal with real life. This does not mean that there shouldn't be a forum for our youth. There would be nothing wrong with hosting contests for certain age brackets, and even for certain skill levels. There might even be the possibility of holding an invitational contest. But I do not feel that stacking the deck in an open poetry contest in favor of the unskilled is a favor to anyone.
Respectfully,
Moses -
Very informative. However, so that all poets have a chance to win, instead of just the well read few, I will continue to choose the works that move me, regardless of spelling errors or improper grammar. Instead of picking at the grammatical errors, misspelled words, double negatives and wrong punctuation marks, like some carrion scavenger, I take into account that most of the poets on this site did not have the luxury of higher education. My contests will continue to be judged by which piece best fits the contest criteria. I believe the guidelines you have created should function as a method for deciding deadlocks. However, I believe a 13 year old should have the same chance at winning a contest as you or I. Most 13 year olds certainly lack the polish of an experienced and expert poet, and wouldn’t stand a chance at winning, based on these guidelines. Most teenagers, as well as most adults, need positive reinforcement. They need an occasional boost to their egos.
Poetry is a reflection of one’s heart and soul. If an individual loses over and over, and they are constantly made to feel that their reflection holds no beauty, the damage to their self-esteem could be disastrous. We have already lost a number of young people to suicide, we don’t need to lose more. These guidelines would work for a college poetry course, but this isn’t college. There are children here, with fragile psyches, who constantly wrestle with matters of life and death. Ask any teenager, who writes, if they have ever considered suicide and you will be amazed at the number who say yes.
As I said earlier, these guidelines will be very helpful at deciding ties, but as a regular criteria for judging, they would give an unfair advantage to the polished poets. As long as children continue to post on this site, I will judge as I see fit. While polish, punctuation, spelling, beauty and technical excellence be damned. This forum is for everyone, the contests are for everyone, this is not a college course that caters only to the best writers. If it becomes that, I will leave. I will not be a party to alienating our young aspiring writers, or those without a college education. Ordinarily, I subscribe to the notion that one should say nothing at all if they don’t have anything good to say (something that should be adopted by everyone), however, I felt someone needed to address the cons.
Mark -
Thank you for this; must have a lot of work. You have analysed the "je ne sai quois" of poetry and turned it into "je sais quois." This should prove really valuable to those who take their contests seriously.
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This, in a way is something that has been done on almost all ofmy contests...however, my criteria are different, though there are 10 apects I am looking for, and I rankfrom 1 to 10, and see who gets closest to the 100 point mark...NOBODY has ever made it over a 96 at any point...however, I am left feeling slightly robbed afterward, because within these contests are poems that were more personally enjoyed that are dissolved by this system...I do think my system needs revision because some points, TO ME are more important than others. I guess I figure now, after having given away thousands of points in my 6 contests that I should have my judging system reflect more of myown personal requirements for good poetry and take away some of the technical guidelines....after all, I have earned mypoints, and when I see a poem that may be packed full ofgrammatical and spelling errors and possibly is less proper than another; yet, speaks to me personally, I think my system interferes with giving them the points and recogniton that I desire...
Anyway...a great colomn that is likely to help many people who are having difficulty judging contests...~genielassie~ -
excellent
Well...I'm not sure I agree with everything you've said in this article, but I certainly agree with most of it. I am so glad to see someone take umbrage with the out-of-hand dismissal of cliche. While I agree that you don't want to see 5 four word cliches in a 12 line poem, I believe that cliche may be artistically employed in much the same way as metaphor and simile. After all, cliche is a sort of verbal short-hand which can evoke a whole range of images, emotions, or sensations in a concise manner. I also was grateful to read another reiteration of the importance of basic spelling and grammatical skills in writing poetry. While most of us make spelling errors on occassion, it is disgusting to me to read something like "I no your going to be better then me." I mean, puhlllleeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz. People...we're about using words to create images and thoughts in the minds of others...at least, that's what poetry is to me. How the heck can you do that if the reader can't figure out what you're saying. I'm also grateful for the message you gave about poetry having a perceptible meaning for the reader. I am heartily sick of being treated as foolish because, with pick, shovel, and sieve, I was unable to uncover the meaning the poet intended. Either you write a poem for public consumption, or you keep it in your journal at home...that's my theory. And, if you want me to read it, make it fathomable, fercryinoutloud! (Yeah, I know...not acceptable punctuation, spelling, or word use...but, well, it sorta gets my goat, dontchano.) I'm all for creativity, but let's be rational, shall we? Ooooooops. Didn't mean to board a soapbox, here. Thanks for this interesting (and, evidently, highly provocative) article.
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InspiringlyFantabulous!
Wow...you typed a hand full(said a mouth full) I just created my first contest....I'm glad to have read this...although it was for humor...and I think hey...if it's funny..it's funny....but...after reading some of the entries...I realized...it's not going to be easy to judge....because...well...most were pretty darn funny....so...this here has given me a little more excuse me...a lot more insight...as to what to think about to make my choices in judging..so thank you...and God Bless!...
RollyPollies!
*Bugs & Fishes*
~Gleto Orica/C. L. Brandon K.~
Edited on Jan 11, 3:43 because 'Silly Typoes....
Me no know?!...'.
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useful educational piece
many of us are here to learn and are complete novices -
This is not only helpful for judging, but for writing education -
I agree with lonelyhowls - some of the poems chosen as the winners or runners up, aren't of that good quality and i myself have ever won a contest for a poem which i thought was very ordinary when there was better entries. Hopefully many people will read this and consider these factors when judging poems.
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Wow!! This will totally help me since I just started my first contenst, I only skimmed it so far but Im going to bookmark it, this is a very useful piece
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nice one
David -
This is a good guide to judging, but I personally think that as long as you aren't biased and are a relatively good writer then you can judge contests well intuitively. I personally judge contests first by seeing if they followed the rules and addressed the contest and then by seeing which one moves me the most. And I place a great emphasis on grammar and spelling. I believe that you have to learn the rules of grammar before you can break them.
As for favoritism in contests, I have given first place to friends of mine but that isn't because the person is my friend but rather simply because I thought it was the best poem and fit the contest the best. That's really all that matters when judging. -
That's funny...I just judged my contest and I found an incredible turn-off in one of my entrees...The person (who shall remain nameless) spelled a person's name wrong...And I think I took off too much credibility than I should have...
Your information came in handy to me and I hope to many others.
!~*YS4e*~!
Scarlett
Edited on Jan 10, 6:23 p.m. because 'typo gnomes...'. -
Very imformative column, everything but intimidating. These are all rules I try to follow with critiquing and judgement daily. I think there are a lot of people that need to read the part on chiches. I once had an attack because I used the phrases "empty eyes" and "meaningless walls". They said they did nothing for a poem, but I totally disagree it gives detail and poems NEED detail. Not to mention it gave insite into how I felt. Anyways a very nice column, couldn't have done better myself
Crystal -
I found this to be a very interesting and informative column. I have entered a few contests, one a couple or so ....and I've posted some of my own, with some wonderful poetry entered. I always have a hard time deciding which to select as winners but this column will most certainly be a big help in the future.
Thanks for your help
Dee -
A good idea, i suppose. for me, personally, i think it is much too restricting and mechanical. Saying this type of judging system is impartial would be a stretch; for example, on evaluating how 'moving' a piece is, its very easy to see that certain things move some people and not others, simply because everyone is different.
another idea that bothered me is the assesment of grammar and punctuation. Its obvious that the most important part of poetry is the idea of communication - whether it be emotion, knowledge, or anything in between - and sometimes english grammar and punctuation can merely be a hinderance. now, that isnt all the time; obviously, if errors in syntax make the piece hard to read, then that is something that needs to be adressed. for example: i used the conjunction 'isnt' just a second ago. does anyone honestly not understand that i meant 'is not?'
Another thing. in your last category, you stated that alluding to an idea rather than taking it head on would score more points. Who decided that beating around the bush is always better than simply coming out and saying it? it just seems to me that even this rather mechanical method of judging is a little biased and exclusive itself.
I mean no insult at all, i am simply responding to your article. It is indeed very well thought out, and you make several good points. Also, the subject of fairness in judging is very important. it just seems to me that it cant be solved this easily. This all just seems very exclusive to certain styles of poetry. In any case, thanks for posting this column. its given me quite a few ideas i will remember when i have another contest.
D -
This brought up some good points that will come in handy for sure because I just posted a new contest, and I was a little worried about the judging-I think I could've done better on the last time I judged a contest.
Thanks for posting this, it's very helpful. -
Thank you. I found myself getting discouraged with some of the contests I would enter. It seemed that the judge was lacking the proper skills to judge (not saying just because mine didn't win) but I always go back and see who was picked and I really wish some of them would give a more detailed response as to why, either on the poem itself or on the contest page so everyone could see why they were picked and perhaps better themselves and experiment with new things. I think that's another important idea...plus just my own opinion but I wish judges would comment on people's poems they enter..sometimes people put alot of effort into creating a piece that fits a certain set of rules, and when even the judge doesn't make even a two word comment (which I guess I'd rather not have one at all if all it would be was good work) that is really discouraging too! I want to hold a contest soon, I have well over 1000 points (I've been saving!) and I will definitely bookmark this page to help assist me with being fair to myself and fair to others by being a well informed judge. Again, THANK you, and it's given me hope to enter more contests as hopefully they will be a little smarter when it comes to just handing out trophies to someone because they are popular or they like them and instead value what's important: the poem! Oh and I'm glad you didn't say the image was super important considering some of us cannot even do that!!
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Very well researched and presented. Most of my poetry is intended to humor the reader or get them to think and so much of the emotional judging is never there. There seems to be a preoccupation with, sorrow, gore, or sex. I can't think of any of the classical greats who made their reputation on such subjects. It seems the comments unfortunayely have as much insight to the working here as your essay. Those who know how to write poetry will already know how to judge it. Those who don't will continue to rely on the immature reasonings of friendship, images included, repayment for trophies earned, or other non-creative reasons.
Thanks for providing the information and the forum. -
I think an impartial panel of qualified judges would be great, and would help out this site, but it probably won't happen. About your other question, big and little vocabularies don't necessarily make a good poem. Most of my poems are simple enough for the average person to understand, and are not written for the intellectual elite, but for the common people. Most of our greatest (English)classics in poetry were written for the common person. It is a shame that a few of the cultural elite today supposedly determine for us what is good poetry. When are we going to allow the popularity with the general population to determine this again?
Best wishes,
Moses -
Excellent Information
Excellent column. Much needed.
Everyone knows I don't generally enter contest for most of the above reasons stated by others earlier.
Only addition would be to add links to the poem examples listed so that people can go and read the poems. Perhaps they would read them after reading the article; or while reading the article. Either way listing the poems would really make this a 99%er in my book. It's at 95% quality level already .
Good write. -
It's kinda sad to think that I may have gotten my 30 'cups' because of popluarity. hmmm.....not popular, so nope
......
Myself, I don’t enter many contests anymore because they all seem to be the same “make me cry” contests…or the ever popular “Cutting / suicide” ones. And, I know a few of the poets that always pick their friend’s poems, and I never enter their contest. If they want to spend time swapping poems back and forth, then power to them. -
A very interesting assessment of judging, and certainly a way to achieve more consistency, but I think with a few flaws – for instance, how is one to judge word content if ones vocabulary is limited? One poet’s obvious is another’s sesquipedalian… and from this obvious example come so many more subtle variations; perhaps we need a qualification to become a judge…
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A very enlightening article...with some good advice given...I hope this reaches a wide cross section of the all poetry population...
I stopped entering contests for various reasons - one of them because my cups all mysteriously disappeared and no one ever told me why...
Secondly - some poems I have submitted are judged by people who do not always understand what I write about...with all due respect to my fellow poets its a little uncomfortable when people IM asking what your poems mean...
There also seems to be some bias when judging poems - and I wonder if sometimes people havn't already made their minds up prior to judging...I am not suggesting this happens all the time - but it happens...
I don't even bother with contests anymore...I just read and write...I dont think the amount of cups one holds necessarily determine how well you write anyway...its only one person judging -I find more honesty in comments from a wider audience...as long as they ARE honest...I would hate to think anyone lies when they comment on my work...it would be a massive insult to me...
I would only take advice from a few people on here anyway...though there is so much talent on here - there are so few who write blow away material...
I enjoyed this though - I hope people take heed and apply as appropriate...
~ sonia ~
Edited on Jan 10, 2:42 p.m. because ''. -
Thanks...WILL DO!
UB
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next time you run one, lemme know via IM. I dont even look in that section anymore. :S
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and that is exactly the point i was making...
and yes...i think that is exactly the reason some of our best writers have stopped or decreased their entries to "contests"...at least those that i have spoken to directly about this...
heck, i even ran a contest recently...and thought it was decent...and was offering good points...and couldnt even get entries! Maybe because i won't run popularity contests...hard to say...
anyway...i'm shutting up now
UB
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its interesting actually ....
I pretty much stopped entering contests all together. I have won my fair share, and have honestly been told at least 5 times in IM after something was judged that "well yours was the best actually but you have so many trophies already that I wanted to give it to someone who doesnt have any" or you see three other entries to the contest, almost all of the three are horribly writen, with no creativity, talent and an incredible amount of grammar mistakes, and they get the top three places just because all three were the contest runners friends.
Ive been careful to try to avoid contests that my own friends put on, simply because if I were to win, I would wonder if I actually deserved to win, or if they were biased and let me win because Im their friend. I dont want to win something if I dont deserve it, and I dont want to NOT win something, when I do deserve it, simply because "you already have alot of trophies" or that they were just going to give the winning ones to their friends anyway.
:S
either way, I pretty much stopped entering.
most of them are judged unfairly and more and more I see contests offered by poets who are honestly, in my opinion, too immature as a poet to be Judging others work. I know that sounds horrible...but its true.
I always look to see the age and read some of the poetry of the person putting the contest on, simply to see what to expect of them. I wont put an hour effort into a poem for their contest, worry about language use and imagry and metaphor if all they write about and are interested in is talking about body functions and havent themselves writen anything on a mature enough level to understand half the words I use sometimes.
I have noticed alot of the poets around here that have been here over the past two years along with me, have all stopped entering, or seriously reduced their entering, and I have to wonder if it has to do with the same reasons I dont enter anymore.
:S ok Im done.
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Great column! I think one of the biggest problems with some of the contests held on AllPoetry is that they have become popularity contests as opposed to any real contest of craft. In speaking to many of the writers on this site who have been here for an extended period of time and been able to see the noticable change in the contests...it has become very clear that most people win contests because someone "likes" them...and not necessarily the entry. If you are friends with the contest holder, your chances of winning at AllPo are greatly increased, regardless of the quality of your entry. People seem very concerned about offending their "friends"...and that to me is not a contest(and i hate that term anyway...they used to be considered "challenges"...which i much prefer). So, giving some insight into some really positive ways to subjectively judge these "contests" is a fantastic idea. Though i suspect that many will still continue to follow the same thing they have been doing...awarding the trophies to their friends and continuing the popularity contests.
UB
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This is a great method, and maybe it will even show people why their poems arent placing. i think that this is a great system for both judges and writers, because if we all know the criteria, we can have much better poems, which are more appealing.
i think that if everyone follows this system, or one similar, it would cause people to write much better.
but, in the same token, it does take away a bit from spur of the moment writes. it something seems perfect to you when youre done writing it, maybe it should stay that way. and it is also a little unfair if a better poem doesnt win a contest, but a poem shaped like a loaf of bread does, simply because its shaped like a loaf of bread. some poets write to write, and dont bother with pictures. the poem should be good enough that you dont need to use a gimick like that to draw attention to it.
but, if a poet is able to use these techniques without taking away from the fluidity or beauty of their poem, then, all the power to them. i dont think that im really 'flowing' in this comment, so ill stop...
anyways, good column, great idea, but personal preferance or gut feeling should also be taken more into account.
~fallen -
This is long, but good. Great rules that some could use when in a worry about who to award points to. I usually pick the winners in my contests by: if they fit the contest rules, and then how they affected me. It may not be the 'best' one that wins....after all, they are my points to give to whomever I select as winner. I've read some winners in other contests that I thought were tripe, but the host obviously found something in it that I didn't, and awarded their points to it.
This might work for others that host a contest, but for me...if I had to follow these rules...I think I would rather not hold a contest then to give my hard earned points to a poem I didn't like, just because it excelled at all these topics. More than half of the poems would fail, since most people on here are amateur poets, not experts.
I am in *major* agreement with you on "(7). CHOICE OF WORDS & READABILITY" Nothing worse than reading a poem that has too much description, or mixes large words with small ones in a less than enjoyable way.
Edited on Jan 10, 12:18 because 'it's affect, not effect...my bad'. -
this is a great idea.. ususally i judge by how the piece affected me, along with some other criteria (or whatever the word is lol), but mainly how the poem made me feel. i suppose what i do works for the types of poems in the contests i've run so far, but perhaps using your method would be more fair.. in any case, i'm probably going to use this a lot hehe, because it could also help someone in writing their own poem and making it better, not just help judges, right? ^_^
-taori
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Four Stars
This was the first poetry evaluation technique I'd read. It appears to be a way for readers to plough through a stack of poems and give each a fair score more or less, instead of relying soley upon more whimsical methods that could be influenced by variables such as room temperature, time of day, financial concerns, political environment,how many poems one has already read that day, and so forth. Subjectivity would be a factor in any event, yet it might be channelled through a standard evaluation paradigm and then become somewhat more objective.
Like the bowl championship series for the NCAA, technical rating methods do not always identify the best, nor provide accurate scores for comparative evaluations. After Oklahoma's astounding loss to Kansas State in the big eight title game the BCS rating of the #1 team for weeks was a shambles. In time, Louisiana and Southern California 'tied' as the best team in the nation...which is implicitly illogical unless they battled against one another and neither were at some point able to continue, or time ran out.
A winning poem might be so fine in just one category, that it reduces deficiencies in other categories to insignificance, or the reverse. The Light Brigade charged into the valley of death as a result of an error after all. Blind obedience to instructions resulted in the obliteration of a brigade (if I remember the story correctly). Poems that commemorate security measures of the WTC as glorious might have a similar categorical deficiency.
Edited on Jan 10, 11:39 because ''. -
hehe thanks... I was wondering how I should judge my contest and your column makes it easier . Thankie you are a life saver
Love
Mal
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There's no hard and fast way to judge every piece of poetry. I think you laid out useful general guidlines applicable in many instances. Thanks for sharing your ideas.
Edited on Jan 10, 11:09 because 'I tried to get my grammer gooder.'. -
*Technical note* "Charge of the Light Brigade" was written by Alfred, Lord Tennyson, not Lord Byron
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Thank you so much, this is wonderful.
I think I've used a lot of these same kinds of criteria in a semi-conscious way when judging my contests. I think I can also use this to judge my own poems and see where they need work. I'm bookmarking this for future reference. -
i disagree with alot of what you are saying on this....but who am I to say...poetry should be judged on an individual basis. Period.
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Hmmm...I'm sorry, but I didn't get to finish this..well more like did not have the patience to...but this does seem like a fair way to judge non-biased. However, I generally judge by reading a poem and seeing how it effects me. If it doesn't? Then low marks. If it really appeals to me? High marks. but maybe I should consider this method, because I can be biased towards certain topics... anyway thanks for writing this :-) I think I will find time some other day to finish this.
~Amy
Edited on Jan 10, 10:11 because 'spelling...blah'. -
This is a wonderful contribution to this site. I think if people really care about making this site a more constructive "workshopping" environment and want to give good feedback, they definately should study this document.
Excellent.
~ Wendy -
This is a good system, very simular to one which I have been using for judging various poetry competitions. One thing about this kind of structured evaluating, which shows its fairness, and always fascinates me, is that a poem you really like can score less than one with lesser appeal, simply because the less preferd one has been written more skillfully.
This is a system which many could benifit from.
Andrew
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