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Gullible? - A poetry.com journey

Updated June 6, 2006


A while ago, I entered a poem at poetry.com.  They had a number of lines limit, so I entered a poem that matched the lines. Surprise, surprise...it was selected to appear in their newest volume of works.  All I had to do to see it was to purchase the book.($49.95 US plus $8 shipping)  Oh, I was assured that the poem would be there, regardless if I bought or not. As a bonus, I could pay to have a mini autobiography added on the facing page.  I opted against sending any money.....

....but wait, there's more!

Today, in the mail, I received another letter from poetry.com.  It had my poem on it(still not with the corrections I had made in the previous letter).  This letter stated that: "I am delighted to inform you that your poem "Summer Memories" has been awarded our prestigious Editor's Choice Award because it displays a unique perspective and original creativity -- judged to be the qualities most found in exceptional poetry."  With a cute little certificate on the bottom part of the page.

Apparently the book it was featured in is now sold out(whew...good thing I didn't order one then).  But, they reserve some for the poets whose works appear, so I can still order.  I can also get my poem put onto a commemorative plaque.($38.00 US)Four distinctive borders, mounted under Lucite on a walnut-finish plaque.

....But wait, there's more!!!

"Every so often, as our Editors review the poems that have been presented our Editor's Choice Award, they personally select a few poems that they believe would have a wonderfully expressive quality if read by a professional reader.  Your Editor has suggested that you become one of the 33 poets..."

If I agree, and send in my copy stating so, I can order a copy of the 3CD set for only $49.00 US plus $8.00 shipping.


Now, what I can't figure is....do they think I am gullible, or just stupid?  I mean, it would be nice to see one's work in print, and maybe buying the book would be nice...IF it is of good quality (hard cover books are expensive) And since I always wanted to have a poetry book. I have a friend who was in the last book.  She bought the book, and is quite happy with it.

But, as for the rest of it?  Yeesh!!!!!  

And yes, I know that most everyone that enters a poem to poetry.com gets selected as "Winners".....but some other's may not know that.

A few other sites that deal in 'vanity publishing'(you pay them money, they will print any poem you send them) are: poets.com, National/International Library of Poetry, Noble House, Watermark Press.


Update, January 08, 2004

Just received this in my e-mail.....sorry it's so long, but....

Ladies and gentlemen, and fellow poets . . . It's now time to declare the winner of the largest cash prize ever awarded to an amateur poet . . . Our Poet of the Year for 2004 . . . and Grand Prize winner of $20,000 is . . .

Barbara Sutherland!

We're familiar with your work, Barbara, and you know . . .
it could happen just that way!

Dear Barbara,

I would like to inform you of your nomination as Poet of the Year for 2004, and to personally invite you to read your poetry at the single largest gathering of poets in history, where you will be formally inducted as an International Poet of Merit and Honored Member of our Society for 2004.

Your induction will take place Friday evening, March 5th, at the Walt Disney World Resort in Orlando, Florida, during the International Society of Poets Spring 2004 Convention and Symposium.

You will also be honored with two separate and very special awards for your poetic achievement at special ceremonies throughout the weekend.

First, to honor and commemorate your poetic accomplishments, after you present your poetry in front of fellow poets from around the world, amidst the applause from the audience, you will be presented with your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Silver Award Cup. The Award is a magnificent work of art in itself ($200.00 value), uniquely engraved and mounted on a cherry-wood base (see it here). This incomparable award is so large and heavy, you may need an extra suitcase just to carry it home!

And Barbara . . . there's much more . . .

In recognition of your poetry presentation at this prestigious International Symposium, we will also create and present to you a beautiful and colorful Commemorative Award Medallion to honor your poetic dedication and achievements.

36 POETS WILL SHARE $74,000.00 TOTAL IN PRIZES--INCLUDING
THE SINGLE LARGEST POETRY CASH PRIZE EVER AWARDED--$20,000.00!

And don't forget the most lucrative amateur poetry contest ever! Your contest entry poem can be written in any style, on any subject . . . and can be up to 40 lines long.

Just think . . . for this poem alone, you will have the opportunity to win one of 36 cash and gift prizes to be awarded at the Symposium . . including a Grand Prize of $20,000.00--the largest cash prize ever awarded in an amateur poetry competition. There's also a Second Prize of $5,000.00, two Third Prizes of all-expenses paid vacations for two, including a Caribbean cruise and a trip to Cancun, Mexico, a Fourth Prize of $1,000.00, and six other cash prizes of $500.00 each. World-renowned Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, W.D.Snodgrass, and Academy of American Poets Chancellor, David Wagoner, will be with us to congratulate poets and present the Grand Prize.

Your society is also encouraging today's youth to develop and utilize their poetic talents in a positive manner. This year we will award five $1,000.00 cash scholarships to talented young poets attending the Symposium.

Our editors and professors will also be searching for new poetic talent. Twenty poets will be "discovered" in the contest reading sessions. These winners will be awarded publishing or recording contracts that will generate international exposure for their poetic artistry.

In all, $74,000.00 in cash and prizes will be awarded at this single event!

LIGHTS . . . CAMERA . . . ACTION!

And that's still just the beginning . . . we've got three very special days planned for you . . . ones you'll never forget!

*You will be officially inducted as an honorary "International Poet of Merit" for 2004.

*You and your poetic achievements will be honored at two Gala Banquets and Award Ceremonies.

*You will enjoy dazzling entertainment shows created especially for you featuring famous doo-wop girl band, The Shangri-Las, legendary Motown singing group, the Marvelettes, plus other special surprise entertainers. These special command performances will thrill and delight you. There will also be lots of other entertainment, including Midnight Dance Parties on both Friday and Saturday nights!

*Our own "Poetry for Prizes" show will be hosted by Bob Eubanks. For four decades, Bob Eubanks wrote television history as host of the incredibly successful The Newlywed Game. Along with The Newlywed Game, Bob has served as the genial host for game shows on all three networks. Currently Bob can be seen four times a day on Sony's Game Show Network.

*You will learn more about your craft in seminars, reading rooms, rap sessions, and workshops, where you can read and discuss your poetry in informal settings with other poets from all over the world. Back by popular demand are the ISP rap rooms, our famous sunrise poetry readings, the ISP Coffee House, the ISP Open Microphone Rooms, and workshops on how to fine-tune your poetic talents.

*You will have the rare opportunity to get up-close and personal with the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet W.D. Snodgrass, Dr. Herbert Woodward Martin, and Dr. Len Roberts, who will also be reading their own work.

*You will participate in a fantastic international poetry competition featuring 36 prizes totaling $74,000.00. A Grand Prize of $20,000.00, two all-expenses paid vacations for two, including a Caribbean cruise and a trip to Cancun, Mexico, 8 other cash prizes totaling $9,000.00, 10 poetry recording contracts, 10 book publishing contracts, and 5 $1,000.00 Young Poets Scholarship prizes will be awarded at this single event.

*You and your guests will also be eligible to win one of many door prizes, valued at over $6,000.00.

*You will make friendships that will last a lifetime and will return home with wonderful memories, your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Silver Award Cup, your Commemorative Award Medallion, and lots of other special gifts.

DON'T BE LEFT OUT

Don't miss this opportunity. Space is limited, and our Conventions routinely sell out. Plan to join your fellow poets at the Walt Disney World Resort in Orlando, Florida, March 5-7, 2004, for the poetic event of the year! I am also looking forward to meeting you and celebrating the power and beauty of poets and poetry!

Sincerely,
Steve Michaels
International Society of Poets
Convention Chairperson



UPDATE - June 6, 2006
List of 'Vanity' Poetry Sites
(So far)

Cader Publishing
Circle of Poets
Creative Communication
Famous Poets Society
Iliad Press
Iliad Literary Awards Program
International Library of Poetry
International Poetry Hall of Fame
Birthwrites 
International Lib 
Pegasus Press 
International Society of Photography
picture.com
Arts and Kids
Freephotocontest.com
Photomuseum.com
PublishAmerica

The Nashville International Song
and Lyric Competition
National Library of Poetry
Noble House
Paramount Group
poetry.com
Poetry Press
Poetry Revival Contest
Poetry Unlimited
Poets.com
The Poets' Guild
PoetsOnly.com
Sparrowgrass Poetry Forum
Stamford Research
Watermark Press
International Society of Poets
JMW Publishing Company
The National Archives

Please note - Not all Vanity Publishers are scams.  You pay them to print your works....just please, check them out before trying them out.  Some will charge outrageous prices to print some books, while others will lock you in to a 'contract', and handle the sales of your book however they see fit.  There are a lot more Vanity Publishers that I have not listed yet, and most are Self Publishing places.  I have yet to hear anything bad about them, and if I do, they will be added.A haiku of mine will be included in the Allpoetry volume 2 book, but I know it belongs there, having won a spot honestly.  And once published, I will be buying one...or two.

Included in the list

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  • ea silver member
    August 5
    Edit | Reply
    poetry.com has been taken over by lulu now. It is called lulu poetry, as of March of this year. Interestingly, I looked it up on the wiki, and it states that no charges were ever substantiated that it was anything other than a vanity press - not fraudulent.

    The other thing that interests me is that the wiki article on Allpoetry is no longer up. How can that be?


    • Barbara gold member
      August 5
      Edit | Reply
      That is totally annoying... I had such high hopes for lulu.com, and they just shoot themselves in the foot in the literary world with a purchase like that Makes me seriously reconsider being a member there.

      Wikipedia is user based, so my guess would be whoever put the AP article on there took it off.

      • ea silver member
        August 5
        Edit | Reply
        I am not seeing the link to lulu that we used to have on here either. Is AP no longer associated with it?


        • Barbara gold member
          August 5
          Edit | Reply
          That vanished a while back... not sure why, though.


  • Ryan79
    April 3
    Edit | Reply
    Thanks for the advice. My girlfriend was going to have a book published by Publiosh America, and then after she submitted the transcript they sent it back to here and took back the offer. What a rip off! Thanks for the colum.


  • GiveMeTheGun
    February 13
    Edit | Reply

    noted

    very informative, i always wondered about those sites.


  • whos my humblepie
    July 23, 2008
    Edit | Reply
    I did get paid twice from poets.com though, but I had to comment on like three hundred poems first. not something I wanted to continue, not for 25 bucks each time.

  • whos my humblepie
    July 23, 2008
    Edit | Reply
    ha! That has happened to me, I still get such letters for poems that I have deleted years ago. poetry.com is creepy.

    I won the poetry in motion once, $100.00 gift certificate, I never got it
    I sent emails sayin 'hey I want my gift certificate'
    of course I was sweet at first, still never got it!


  • AliceinPoetryLand gold member
    June 25, 2008
    Edit | Reply
    Been there , done that and bought the book
    Gullible me *sigh*


  • jogn
    June 19, 2008
    Edit | Reply
    Thank you! I'm glad I didn't sen them anything.

  • Yvette Champ gold member
    March 11, 2008
    Edit | Reply


  • Wayne Leon Learmond
    March 8, 2008
    Edit | Reply

    Never a truer word said

    I agree. It is a minefield out there for people who are just starting out in writing. I urge everyone to please be aware of companies such as those above.

    Well done


  • Deke
    January 22, 2008
    Edit | Reply
    Checkout PublishAmerica and see if you think they should be on this list too. I published with them once but never will again.
    Damon

    • Barbara gold member
      January 22, 2008
      Edit | Reply
      PublishAmerica is at the bottom of the first list....it earned a place there in 2006. I've heard nothing but bad reports about them, yet some that use the company vow by them.


      • Deke
        January 22, 2008
        Edit | Reply
        I saw it right after I submitted my post. Sorry that I bothered you with that one.
        Damon

  • Thiefree
    January 4, 2008
    Edit | Reply
    It's a sad fact that if you stroke the ego of some poets you will get their love, their attention and their money. You have my respect for not falling into that trap!


  • Temptation.
    December 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    the ironic part of this is i had all the same happen to me when i was only 13. the same email. the same offers. and it was all for a retarded four line poem i wrote for a reading assignment.


  • Jalalbad gold member
    December 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    O yes most of us know about these hustlers. Thank you for posting this needful warning.


  • Expression
    December 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    i jus got a letter frum them 2day actually...


  • Peace and Love942
    December 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    I could have been a victom....

    I gave in a poem to Poetry.com a year back. My poem, Thoughts, was selected! I decided to test the sites valitity by submitting a poem that was completely nonsence. It to was selected! lol


  • Maybe.I.Am.Broken.
    December 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    COMPLETELY AGREED!!!
    One of my friends mum got published there,
    and she still believes she's famous!!
    I emailed this link to her though...


  • I-Like-Rhymes gold member
    December 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    An excellent column.
    I must confess that my first printed poem appeared via one of these companies some years back (United Press in the UK). However I went in with eyes open to their aims and at least got a Christmas present for mum out of it.
    Like you I recieved a variety of interesting follow-ups aimed more at my cheque book than at my poetry note book.
    I find that publishing here ay Oldpoetry is much cheaper (it can be completely free) and probably gains me a much wider readership since I've never seen the original book in any bookshop I've ever been in, and that's a lot of shops.
    Jim

  • Judith Chandler
    December 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    There are so many of these companies! I had no idea. My experience a few years ago was with the National Library of Poetry, I think. I was gullible enough to submit but not gullible enough to go any further. It was somewhat disillusioning.

    Thanks for the column.


  • Sheriff Chelsea
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I always laugh when I hear about poetry.com. I submitted a poem about harry potter when I was like 11, and of course, they said it was incredible, etc. It was about harry potter for godssake. I didn't get a letter until about a year later after submitting it, by then I had learned that it was a scam, the second I saw the letter I started laughing hysterically because I knew how bad the poem was.


  • grannyeri gold member
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    YEs, know all about this site, as I went through the same things. Sad to say I do have a few books I did buy, but since on AP have not had to go that route any more. Thanks for sharing and letting all know about what one should not do if they ever get these letters. Happy New Year!


  • MourningSun
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Yeah. i entered in a contest of theirs and got all that same stuff. I didn't order anything though. It seemed really ridiculous to me. Seriously it was just a complete scam. i agree with what you said.


  • candace-2007
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    ...it ended?? god.. i think i picked up on junk mail after the first yawn of the same thing twice. they really must be stupid. i'm just glad to say that i haven't been scammed, yet, although i have only been writing for a year or so. ...oh well, we all have to stick together and put an end to the bad ones.


  • RogueShadow
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    huh?

    okay the only way i would EVER be published at this current time that wasn't my own doing is through my state's poet's society. its a state wide thing and then they put one book (anthology) in DC's capital. and even then you volunteer your poems.


  • Sle3p
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    Hmmm

    It would seem, most of us here are gullible....


  • Avalanche.Echo
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Oh, here's another one: poetryamerica.com
    Scammage.


  • hoodoolover silver member
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Oh goodness, well it's the same for the site picture.com, as I entered a photo I took and similar things happened, although I sure didn't bite, then looked up on google, picture.com, scam?
    and boy did it all come out then, wonder if the same would be so for googling poetry.com, scam?
    Anyway, another day older another day wiser.

  • Avalanche.Echo
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I once sent a poem into poetry.com... semifinalist, editor's choice, etc. I didn't buy the book or anything, though. Why would I want to buy a book I was in, if anyone who sends a poem in and pays cash gets that? Augh. I've been published a couple of other times by legit sources (they sent me a free copy of the book, and one of them gave me the equivalent of $90 USD, and I checked them out beforehand), and I don't want to be used for money like that.

    I didn't know Watermark was a vanity publisher. Hm...

  • AliceinPoetryLand gold member
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Yes I had the same experience and was pulled in hook, line and sinker. I am so gullible! I bought the book and of course, my poem was on the first page LMAO!
    I have since thrown it away!
    I even forked out for the trophy I am so stupid!
    On well 'sigh' Glad I found this site
    I still get mail from poetry.com but it ends up in the round file


  • CarCrashHumor
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    same thing happened to me-- poetry.com

    and I had the same thought: "do they think I'm stupid??"

    I didn't send any money either good thing. my mom asked me if I wanted a copy even if it was a scam and I was like "no" and she was saying she'd much rather wait till I have my own book published

    haha, I doubt that will happen either, but anyways I think it's great that you posted this column. it's helpful to someone I'm sure to have it be common knowledge.


  • Hate of your Life
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I got scammed by poetry.com when I was really young, like 12 years old or so. Thankfully, my parents saw that it was a scam (and after more and more letters started coming, I saw it, too) and I never sent them any money.

    What I never understood is how the whole Florida thing works! Do they actually have a ceremony or do you think most people have wised up by then ;-) It's not illegal, but it certainly is dishonest. =(

    Good job warning everyone with the column!


    • Errant Panther gold member
      February 22, 2008
      Edit | Reply
      They actually do hold the conventions, my mother has been to the one in Orlando once, but you have to pay to attend the convention, on top of airfare and accommodation, just to get up on stage - read your poem and pick up the token awards. if you can't attend - you can choose to pay "a professional reader" to showcase your poem at the convention. It's all about profiting from inflating the ego.


  • AerinAlanna
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I submitted poetry on poetry.com, but I figured out what was going on when two of my poems got the same award at the same time...as if I had the money to pay for that stuff in the first place. I much prefer allpoetry.


  • RedwingSpirit silver member
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Same experience with them here too. Lies Lies and more, I just ignore their messages, anymore.


  • Mad Moon silver member
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I'm sorry to say, I had this same experience when I first started writing. I wish I had known so I wouldn't have wasted that first $49.95!!! OMG! Thankfully, I wised up soon enough to stop there. BUT...It has been & years since I entered my poem and bought the book....and YES!!! I STILL get letters from them, like the ones you get, for the CD's, guest readers, award ceremonies, etc.... Do they EVER give up trying??

    Thanks, my friend, for posting this for all to read. Hopefully it will save some new writer the devastation I felt when I found out I was scammed. I look back now at that pitiful poem, and remember how it felt to so "built up," and then so let down. If this column saves just one new writer that embarrassment, you have done a really good thing. I am bookmarking for future reference.


  • Sai Babas Lotus
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I've also fallen prey to poetry.com once. It was the worst thing ever. I was really scolded at by my Dad..I guess I was 15 or 16 then. I sent them the money they asked for(it was a HUGE hefty amount!) and I did it by secretly telling my Mom I was going to be a BIG poetess, rich and all, lol...and when my Dad came back from his work in another country, he was angry at me...lol...not too good days then came my way. I'm so glad you posted this article. Many are there who may fall prey to them and its good to forewarn others. Thank you for posting this!

    Charishma


  • galfalfa gold member
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    My experience

    I've been published by Publish America and i didnt pay them to publish my work, the only thing i paid for was to copyright my poems..which was roughly around 50.00 CD.
    They publish your book with your input as well and put it up on all the Amazons, Chapters and other online book stores..and they ask you to do your own promoting locally. Which i did...
    My experience with them has not been a bad one - i do receive royalty cheques and although its not enough to retire on, my first few were of a sizeable amount. Mind you they are getting lower now but all and all i dont feel duped or mislead by them.

    Poetry.com though is a scam, say, doesnt Kevin advertise them on this site


    galfalfa


  • ilovemygrape
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Aaaahahaha good lord...

  • haikumonk gold member
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Yeah.... I experienced the Eubanks one.... the invitation was exactly as you have stated here. Looks like a blast.... but it is defnitely for vanity and for them to make a fortune on the tickets to attend. Trust me, they cost much more than the awards they give out.... and they make a ton of money doing it.

    I opted not to join them.... cuz, unlike the rest, they are pretty dang obvious in what they are up to. We posted something about Poetry.com back when I was site supervisor. Hmmmmm... can't remember where... but I'm very glad you have written this and warned the members of allpoetry about it.

    You probably have saved a lot of people a ton of grief by doing so.

    Thanks so much for posting this.....

    Don


  • Jim Berkheiser
    December 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I was fortunate to have been warned about poetry.com and other such scams by the teacher of an night school Creative Writing class I took a couple of years ago. He advised us never to pay to have our work published.

    I read one entry here that said, if your work is good, you should get paid for it. I've been published by one very reputable literary magazine, one very good literary magazine, a magazine started by a friend, and an anthology by a new publishing company. My payment has been either one or two free copies of the publication. There are publications out there who pay, but you had better be one of the elite poets in the world with publishing credentials to get accepted by them. If you're into poetry to be rich or famous, you'd be better off seeking another path.

    There are some legit poetry contests run by very reputable publications and institutions that require a reading fee with your submission. Contests by publishers for chap books can also be legit, they may have a reading fee, however, they don't ask you to pay for publication and often give you some free copies. The tough thing is finding reputable and honest publishers.

    If you start submitting poetry, be aware that you may have to submit literally hundreds of poems, even if you are very good, to have one published. This will require double postage since they require return postage be included. There are also ezines that publish. Ted Kooser, a two time US Poet Laueate said that he had trouble being published before his appointment as Poet Laureate, now they'll print anything he writes. (Oh, the Poet Laureate of the United States receives $35,000 for the appointment and he has some required readings and must do something to advance poetry in the US during his term.)

    The most frustrating thing is trying to figure out what a publisher wants. You may have to invest in one of their publications to read examples of what they publish. Try libraries, it's cheaper. The difficulty of being accepted by good publishers makes scams more tempting.

    Web sites like this are nice, but they encourage a lot of bad poets with wishy-washy, nicey-nice critiques. These vanity presses play on just that, our vanity. We want to hear we are great. Who dosen't? Are you any good? Ask someone who has some background, experience and training and get ready to be hurt. We can all grow as poets, but not if we can't hear good, constructive criticism and try to learn.

    Speaking of this and other web sites, some publishers may consider a poem you post on line as being published. Very few good publications will accept previously published work.

    I have a contract I must sign and return now for the publication of three poems in an anthology. The contract gives them first publication rights in the USA and any foriegn contries. I maintain all other rights. If I ever have any of those or any other poems I've had published accepted in a chap book or for another publication, I must credit the original publisher. They also have the right to print the book in large print and audio tapes. I will receive two copies of the anthology as payment. I may purchase other copies (I will).

    You may all try to bring down these vanity presses, but as long as they deliver what they promise, they are committing no crime. Prize money is awared, plaques are awared, medals are given, the events are held, all is on the up and up legally. Think, if they publish 500 poems at $50 a pop that is $250,000. Then there are the special front page placements, the plaques, fees for attending their gatherings. The prize money is a drop in the bucket. I think you will find that there is never a mention that the books will be marketed.

    Buyer beware. Hey, if it's worth the money to see your name in print, do it. How many living, famous poets can you name? How many books of poetry do you buy a year?

    Work hard at being the best poet you can be.

    Jim

    • Barbara gold member
      December 30, 2007
      Edit | Reply
      That's why I have "Not all Vanity Publishers are scams. You pay them to print your works....just please, check them out before trying them out." under the vanity publishing list.


  • SixtySevenMustang
    December 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Hmm.
    I did the whole poetry.com thing.
    It was a scam.
    Unfortunately, I did not realize so until I had the book.
    And they kept sending me all the same stuff that you have posted here.
    I wish I would have known about this earlier.


  • Girl With Guitar silver member
    December 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I can honestly say I've never received anything like this concerning poetry. I definitely am sus about a lot, if not all of the emails and such that I get from people I don't know though.

    Thanks for putting this up, hopefully people will stop falling for these scams!


  • lalainya rising
    December 17, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I just about fell for Poetry.com's scam last month. I had nearly forgoton about one silly little poem I entered on thier site a while back, the only poem I had at the time that met the line limit.
    I recieved the letter in the mail and for one blissful hour I was floating in the clouds. But wait, says my bothersome logical side...I have to pay them? And, really, the whole letter looks rather...well, sweepstaky. Then theres that niggling little fact that I know darn well the poem I submitted was really one of my most awful pieces, not that good at all, when its comes to the blunt truth.
    A quick web search let me know everything I needed about them; all I could find was negative comments, and a lot of them.
    In the end I'm glad I kept my head about it, but angry for the smashing let down from that hour of bliss when I learned the truth.

    Thanks for writing this artical. Thanks for informing people.

    My only question now is how do I get off thier mailing list, I mean I've recieved fifteen emails from them in the last three weeks.
    I wonder, perhaps if I ignore them long enough I will win a cash prize? Wouldn't that be somthing.

  • Wayne Leon Learmond
    November 18, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    The Truth is Written Here

    The International Library of Poets is another orgnizastion that deals in scams. If your work is any good, A PUBLISHER WILL PAY YOU, NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND!

    You NEVER EVER hand money over to ANY PUBLISHER [Unless it has been agreed beforehand] There are so many people that get caught up in very expensive scams like these that if you do not know your way around, it can seem like a minefield. I have bitter experience myself with some of these 'organizations', dating back to the 80s when I first started my writing.

    I learned the hard way. I warn anyone out there, who has hopes of seeing their words in print, DO NOT FALL FOR THE TEMPTATION OF HANDING MONEY OVER, JUST TO SEE YOUR WORDS IN PRINT. The off shot is that reputable publishers will not look too kindly on you as your reputation would be somewhat tarnished. Do your research of these organizations and keep WELL AWAY.

  • Evan-Perrie
    November 6, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    so im completely new here, but...
    i entered that contest at poetry.com and i have a few questions..
    is the "$10 000 Prize" even real? O.o...
    and i guess this means the editors choice award is basically meaningless ?..
    if anyone could answer those questions, email me at: bitty_perrie@hotmail.com thank you.
    Sincerely,
    Evan Perrie.


  • Silent Cougar Moderators member
    October 6, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Barbara,,I came back to read this again, and i'm still creased up yet,,, this is a script for a comedy sketch,, definitely...

    Thanks for the laugh,, although serious,, you have to laugh..

    Regards
    Mike.


  • Rin
    September 9, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    we should submit a poem about poetry.com and how lame it is hahaha

    ill help you write it... you down?

    love
    clay

  • quakietree
    August 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    It's easy to feel a little flattered by these letters- until you figure it out. I opted not to buy mine and I also passed on the convention where my poem would be read- and they were giving me such a good deal- they sent me a special coupon that would pay for most of the costs- most.
    Thanks for the list.
    qt


  • misticmoonlite gold member
    August 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    well may I join the league of poets to follow through to
    the trash can>?
    the company sure gets a lot of reviews, as I see you cordially denied their invite,way to go...SH


  • lucy sky-diamond
    August 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    yup, i entered a poem there too, got the 'you have been accepted into the semi finalist' thing too, along with 'pay $200 to come to our convention'. if i was you i would steer well clear of that site!


  • Death of the Author
    August 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    *sigh* This does not fill me with confidence. I am 16 and a while ago I entered a competition by UnitedPress to get one of my poems published in their National Poetry Anthology.
    I was really chuffed when a month or two later I got a letter explaining my poem had gotten in as well as about 200 others. All I had to do was send this much for the book...and I could do exactly the same as you said, I could add a biography AND a dedication, each for even more money. The worst thing was you could either send a cheque but I think most people would use a credit card as it is easier and they sent a slip requesting for credit card details including the "security code".
    This kinda put me off but we sent a cheque nonetheless. Now I've just read this and it's made me think I was right and it's all a big scam.

    I might have missed it but you can add UnitedPress (UK) to your list of Publishers

    Very interesting article! x


  • zorman32
    August 31, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    Copyrite for free

    Every time they send you your poem in an addressed envelope for review....DON'T open the envelope. It is proof positive that you wrote the poem before the date on the postmark, and viola, you are copy write protected. (If my work is so god awful wonderful, where is my contract, commission money to "escape and create" etc etc...a scam is a scam, get the baby out of the bathwater and then toss out the rest). Thanks for sharing, best wishes!

    • Evan-Perrie
      November 6, 2007
      Edit | Reply
      the poem i entered in that one contest had already made it into a book at my school.. so shouldnt that be enough proof that it was made and mine before it ended up going to those fuck heads at the poetry place?
      Sincerely, Evan Perrie.


  • NoWayJo
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    A True Story

    When living in VA, there was a used bookstore and in that bookstore there was a poetry section. I was browsing through the section when I came to some 12 volumes of the National Library of Poetry collection--(If I recall correctly, one of those volumes may have been titled "Summer Memories"--So maybe they really WERE impressed by your poem-entry at poetry.com and passed it on to thsee people, Barbara).

    Anyway, being familiar though never taken-in by the National Library of Poetry scam, I really felt for every writer who paid good money for publication and these volumes, so I purchased all 12 of 'em at a cost of $2.00 apiece. I guess the writer who consigned these volumes to the bookstore for sale:

    1. Discovered the scam into which they had been drawn and decided to rid themselves of the evidence.

    2. Wanted to spread the word of their "astounding poetry" as attested to by NL of P editors to others who rarely spend more than $20.00 on any single book of poetry.

    3. Was so dirt-poor after spending their last dollar on publication, trophies, plaques and Disney World ceremonies and needed the 50-cent per-book consignment proceeds.

    Anyway, I felt I did my good deed for poetry. I brought the books home, skimmed through them and put them on the bottom shelf of my bookcase. A few days later I came home to discover my pup had chewed-up every copy cover-to-cover. Pages of poetry were strewn through the house one end-to-the-other. I don't know why she only chewed those books of poetry to this day. There must be a moral to this story though I don't know what it is, but it seemed somehow fitting to make mention on this column post.

    Jo

    P.S.: Only to add, it's sad that such scams are allowed to exist, but I suppose in the name of capitalism it's all fair game and legal.

  • grannyeri gold member
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Yes, I was taken in by this site earlier and have a couple of wonderful books with my poems in them to leave on my coffee table for all to see. LOL We all want to see our poems in print but often pay too much to get this done. Thanks for posting this to make others aware of these vanity pubishing sites.


  • sidewinder silver member
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    the problem is people who don't write don't realise to be published ...you as a writer get a royality on what you've writen.... and scam like these cost you to be published... and even at that... you as a writer are not recognised within the writing community. but they see these schemes and sadly are convinced that to be published one has to pay and therefore believe that it's only a pipedream


  • Frodofan silver member
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    lol


  • Abscessed
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    been there, read that


  • PANDAmonium
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    ok. Everything that happened to you in here. Happened to me too. lol. BUt I didn't fall for it.


  • Almighty Aphrodite gold member
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I am really glad I never bought any of their "books" or fallen for the other crap that poetry.com and others like it propagates. I submitted one poem to them back in 2002 and received a notice about becoming published, even becoming a semifinalist for some contest they were supposedly holding. Thank goodness I didn't have the money to spend on their lies--I don't think I could've dealt with the heartbreak of a hoax.

    I know one cannot police the internet, but there should be some kind of law in place preventing such scams from ever taking place anyway. I have many poems that people say is worthy of publishing, but what is the point of submitting to a contest if it's not legitimate? Before I let someone make a fool of me I will die of starvation to keep the integrity of my craft.

    Thanks for putting this notice out--it is something everyone will benefit from reading, hopefully.

    Many blessings,

    Raven Aurora


  • Red Devil
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    Someone finally said it

    I almost fell for poetry.com's scam once, but couldn't because I didn't have money. It was a poem I wrote in jail that poured my soul out and poetry.com said, well, what they say to everyone. I recently got an invitation to go to the most recent thing in Vegas and I told them that poetry should be honored for creativity and nobody should have to pay for that honor. I then proceeded to tell them that I love allpoetry.com!


  • CelticQueen
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I got a message just yesterday from someone on AP with a link to a 'poetry contest' offering prizes of $100,000. It was a link to poetry.com. I wrote back to the person and advised them that this was a vanity publisher and they really should stay away from them.

    I don't think a person is 'stupid' for being taken in by poetry.com and others. p.c is aggressive and for a young writer, to receive a letter in the mail telling you that you're a semi-finalist in their contest and that they want to publish your poem is absolutely thrilling! I know. I was there.

    Barbara's advice is good: check them out before trying them out.

    celtic queen


  • catz Moderators member
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Thanks for posting this, Barbara. Before Kevin invited me to join allpoetry back in October 2001, I had posted a few things on poetry.com and guess what... each poem was one of he best they'd ever had the pleasure to read and they were intending to publish it, read it, promote it, award me fantastic prizes.. and on and on, just as you've stated in your column.

    Gee, can't imagine why I became suspicious. I could have become famous and rich hahaha

    Anyway, I never bought any of their offers. I know one person from years ago who did, though. And sure enough her poem was in the current book at that time... in very small print, she had a hard time even reading it.

    I read awhile back that a group had sent in 'poetry' to poetry.com to see if in fact it was a sham and a scam... they sent really stupid stuff, jibberish, mispelled words... real crap. And guess what again... they received the same letters and invitations the rest of us did.

    Good for you for posting this as many on here still haven't experienced the poetry.com scam up front and personal. And hundreds of us have... and lived to tell about it.

    Dee


  • anaisnais
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    So good that you care enough to share this experience with this site. Thank you for your insight. Kindest wishes


  • Twisted Fairy
    March 18, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Forgive me if it's already said, but one should also check the Better Business Bureau before purchasing anything that sounds too good to be true. If they've got a lot of complaints, then it's not a good idea.


    • Catressa gold member
      August 30, 2007
      Edit | Reply

      <

      I was thinking the exact same thing.. I wonder how many reports have been filed? And can we check? Seems to me, that each county, each different state would probably have different records on file though.

      It's a sad fact.

      I am guessing though, and don't get mad at me for asking this, that Lulu is different because you don't pay?

      Not sure you all I haven't checked. No interest in publishing. But how does that vary?


  • Gerald Flagellation
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    If people are foolish enough to be taken in by poetry.com, that's their problem! Amazingly, thousands fall for scams like this every single day. A cruel person might say they deserve it for being so stupid!

  • Yvette Champ gold member
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    Thankyou

    Bookmarking this informative write.Thankyou for including the list of Vanity Publishers and for sharing.Good luck with your creative endeavours and congratulations on being published within volume 2 of allpoetry with a Haiku.


  • M0ofi3
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    This Is Bookmarked!

    Bravo! I'm glad this is posted. These scam-artists know that a lot of amateur writers dream of being published, maybe even become famous, so they "prey" on these persons with the intent of taking advantage of that dream of theirs.

    I think if I get another IM from someone about Poetry.com I will send this article's link as a way to say "I'm on to you" to that person.

    As it is, I learned a long time ago they were disreputable, by checking with the Better Business Bureau. Many businesses can be checked out through their website. All one needs to do is find the reports that either favor or disfavor that business.

    Plus there are websites dedicated to exposing these so-called publishing and poetry scams. One can search for "Poetry scams" on Google or some other search engine.


  • Electric Sunrise gold member
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Hey B,

    Cheers for posting this, although i have read it before, its dead handy given recent events to have this posted.

    So far the only publishing site that i would trust is LULU.COM, i have not only used the site now, but have spoken with several admins of the site to get 100% information about the services they provide and how they go about it.

    The sad fact is, there are predators always waiting in the wings for a lump of meat to come their way. Ladies and Gents of AP, don't be that lump of meat


  • annamoy
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Good column - I've never sent anything to Poetry. com thankfully, as I'd heard about their reputation. I'm from the UK and have been published in various anthologies over here with two different publishers. They say they are not vanity publishers and the price and quality of the books is good, but it would be nice to get paid for writing something now and again! I always buy the books even though it's not a condition of it being published, they just need your permission. I have yet to see any of the anthologies in my local bookstores or library either, so I assume it's just the vain authors and doting families that buy them. I've also thought that some of the poetry included in the anthologies is pretty awful sometimes, not that mine is that great. I would be interested to hear from other Brits who may deal with similar publishers and get their thoughts on this.

    Ann

  • Suzanne Dia
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Yay. I'm so glad you did this.


  • SenseiRidgway
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    Dear Barbara

    Thanks for the heads up.I just got the poetry.com thing yesterday and sent in a poem,but I do have to say it sounded a little fishy.


  • BarbedWireButterfly
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    why do they even bother? seriously. and know they're starting to spam everywhere. ap, myspace etc. it is frustrating. I can't contact them either with hate mail. which sucks.


  • dropthebomb
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Ohhh yes, I had multiple emails from them, over and over again. I eventually emailed them telling them to leave me the hell alone. A few months later I had an email from ANOTHER comapny saying they'd been shown by work by poetry.com. I emailed them back and told them that considering I clicked the button telling poetry.com not to pass on my details it was very odd that they should contact me and that surely it was in breach of the the website's privacy policy? Needless to say, they left me alone after that. I found out later they are the same company. They contact you under different names to try and make you buy other books and make out that your poetry is a huge success.


  • forever dreaming
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I came across -poetry.com a year or two ago before joining AP and like a fool I too submitted poetry and have been tortured ever since with letters about prize winning poetry. This piece highlights what you really get into when you get involved in that sight. Excellent.


  • cherche -d -ame
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    I wish there was something that could be done about all the scam artists out there and it is a wonderful thing you did to take the time and effort to create this awareness column on here. It is a shame , for I feel in a way it "devaluates" this art . Of course there really is no monetary award or anything worth as much as the pride a lot of us take in feeling within ourselves that we have written something that comes from within us as well.
    Many times I get asked "why don't you try publishing some of your work"? Up until now my reply has been that unless Oprah Winfrey or anyone else noteworthy promotes my work at THEIR cost and finances my "publishing circuit and advertisement tour", I am afraid I will have to remain a "starving artist" and continue writing just for the sheer pleasure of itWho knows , maybe my works will be discovered post-humously at some time and then all of my descendants can reap the benefits
    thanks again,
    reenie


  • Myaily
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    You mean mine was real?!?

    hehe LOL I was "published" by them maybe 15 years ago, but I was on like page 2 or 3 hundred and something. I wonder how long it took them to figure out the thing about putting you right on the front page? Oh, and I figured it was all a scam, but I kind of liked seeing my poem in an actual book As for the Disney thing and all the other letters they sent me... yeah, right.


  • MJ Donnelly gold member
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    "Vanity! All is vanity!" Lol! I still get stupid letters from those people, man, they are like a bad penny that just keeps coming back! By the way, have you checked out the, “Wergle Flomp Free Poetry Contest?” Funny stuff! It makes fun of such vanity scams.


  • poet2angels gold member
    August 30, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    BRAVO to you

    I am delighted that you have posted this.
    I was 20 years old ...Just getting started writing poetry when I was "chosen" by that scam site called poetry.com. When I got the letter and my first "certificate" I was thrilled. I called my whole family and my friends, but when I recieved the letter saying I was going to be inducted as an International Poet of Merit and Honored Member of our Society for 1981, in NY, NY...A wonderful festivity in the Big Apple, I was beside myself. My husband looked at me and painfully said that he thought it was a hoax. I still remember my heart dropping to the floor. For years after that, I went on a crusade to stop then, I contacted every site that had their ad banner on the page and tolg them the horror story of mine and all of the others I had heard of...But I found out they have many other names for the same organization, and as you said, other vanity publishers as well.
    It is heartbreaking and this is a close subject to my heart. I am going to send this link to everyone I know. You are doing a wonderful thing by making this known.. BRAVO to you, and I am so sorry that you have been through this

    Lynda

  • SilentMind
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Thankyou so much for taking the time to inform us all. Oh and anyone if you get messages saying "Great poems, I think you have a chance of WINNING such and such a competition" - it's a scam. Unfortunetely there seems to be a few around atm.


  • Arrianna MacEwan
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Thats why I love AP. I knew a guy who went to a conference where they said he was going to get to read his poem in front of 3,000 people. Then he had to pay them 300 dollars and then they ran out of time and he got a alluminum medal, nothing more, nothing less. pretty sad.


  • Dragons Lady
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Yeah been here done this and not pleased about that. LOL. This is one of the worst scams ever. I found a wonderful publisher who is actually a nice guy. Will look into getting a book done soon. Thanks for the post on this. Good luck with publishing.


  • adios muchachos gold member
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    Wish this could be anonymous

    I was an idiot at poetry.com
    But now...
    I'm just a fool for AP!

    Thanks Kevin!


  • Alien She
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    argh

    argh, i got one of those letters today, and i actually felt good about the poem i wrote (hollywood homicide on my page) but the price of the book kinda clued me in on the scam.


  • Elrenia
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Yep, got a couple of those. Thank you for the idea.
    http://allpoetry.com/column/show/2337872

    rous

  • Rowan gold member
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    yup..if it requires money from you to publish it, it's a scam. lol.
    Wonderful of you to do this, for those that don't know.

    Kathleen


  • AshtrayBaby
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Yeah, they did the same thing to me.

    Ahh. Scams.
    Gotta love them. <3

    But did they tell you that Ruben Studdard will be playing at the award ceremony?

    Haha.

  • Broken Rose Petals
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    it looks like we're all winners


  • Mulefa
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    Poems on commemorative plaques with "our distinctive borders, mounted under Lucite on a walnut-finish plaque" - that sounds so revolting. Just so so gross.

    I'm not sure anyone reads the poetry published in the vanity press other than the people who wrote it and perhaps the odd devoted Grandmother. I'm not even sure the "publishers" read it.


  • FeedYourHeadMeg
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    oh my god the same thing with the selected editors choice award happened to me this year!! O.O


  • LarryATilander
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply

    Amen

    Pull down the scams.


  • StormGoddess Greeters member
    August 29, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    You think the letters are a scam? Try being at that world's largest convention of poets. I was there (not by way of poetry.com, but rather because I live in Orlando and frequent Disney) I sat on the sidelines watching some of what goes on, and it is even a bigger farce than what you have portrayed here.

    An excellent write so that perhaps others won't get suckered into the oh so famous crap they put out there.
    Storm


  • Trial and Error
    July 7, 2007
    Edit | Reply
    *blinks*
    Hm... My friend supposedly won 10K off of poetry.com.

    • Barbara gold member
      July 7, 2007
      Edit | Reply

      <

      They offer the prizes so they have to give them out. The thing is that you have to pay to be included in the book, pay to go to the awards ceremony...

      Everyone who submits to the site gets the same letter, with the exact same chance of winning the money... allthey have to do is pay. Your friend was one of hte lucky ones in that she actually got something for it.

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