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Changes to comment ratings

Comments of 100-130 characters now have a maximum rank of 3 stars. 130-200 character comments can be awarded 4 stars. 200 characters isn't really that long - just exactly as long as this paragraph is!

The goal of this is to encourage people to write longer, more meaningful comments. Authors love hearing details about how you felt reading their poem. Take a second longer and write something that is useful!

Edit: Added some more reasons and explanations.
You were never supposed to be able to give comments a rank that were under 100 characters. Whoops!

Only letters now count towards the total. No html, smileys, spaces, etc.

Another new feature was added to prevent people from adding the same comment more than once. The system checks your last few comments to see if you've posted a comment that looks very similar to the current comment, and will show an error message if so, along with a suggestion to add more unique feelings about this poem.

I'm sure some will be upset about these changes, and I am sorry. Ultimately, I feel that this is going to result in a much happier experience to many poets - by hopefully encouraging all of us to write better, longer, more meaningful comments.

Happy poetry writing!

Updates


Some are upset with this change, arguing that they have the sole right to choose how much a comment is rewarded. I disagree - one of my goals with this website is encouraging people to IMPROVE their poetry. In order to improve, it is necessary for comments on a poem to have meaningful content.

Some have said that they get 'just as much use or more' from a comment like 'great job' than a possibly rude comment about 'i didn't like this much, perhaps work on the second stanza or introduce the speaker more'. To that, I would say that you're not trying to improve. That's just ego-soothing. It's become a common thing on the site, and has frustrated me. Yes, there is a place for detail-less encouragement. Ultimately though, the path to improvement involves accepting the fact that with critical feedback, all poems can be improved.

Instead of leaving a short comment, please try leaving a longer comment, including what you really feel. Feel more! Explain it more! Lets help each other improve our poetry!

Included in the list

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Comments

1 - 99 of 194     1 2  next >  (show all)

  • melodytcromer
    July 31
    Edit | Reply

    When the other shoe drops

    If a person can not read a poem and explain in detail what they did or did not like about this piece of work then there is no point in having feed back at all. Some of my best poems were done when somebody made me angry frustrated or down right sad so I say to you that feed back of all kinds does make for better poems and better understanding of what the reader can observe while still helping you to fix a peom or to simply know that the poem is done and finished. Thankks For All Feed back Good and Bad as a poet I get allot out of it and this makes me a better Poet in the end.


  • Meroza
    July 29
    Edit | Reply
    PS; had a look at the "most ocmments today"? Usualy I lie there with everything between 80 to 120, now the highest one is 38...Sure you get more depth in the comments, but there are less poets who get that loooooooooooooooooooong comment.

    Say if your offline for a week, vacation maybe, and you have ten-twenty long comments, you don't really feel like reading those right away, since your tired from the long day.

    no this is ucking stupid


  • Meroza
    July 29
    Edit | Reply
    This is silly, its school all over again, write more then three pages about a three lines poem or you fail.

    How can you write 200 words about a haiku poem? Or a sentance? Or 5 words?

    I'm glad I stopped paying you, for you ain't even worthy the monthly fees


  • kiwigirljacks gold member
    July 27
    Edit | Reply
    Kevin, I just want to say.. thank you for providing this site! Yes, I left a comment complaining about the star rating changes along with all the others.. but at the end of the day, you do provide this site free of charge to many people! And, it's the most function and fun site of any I've seen.

    I believe your motives are good, sometimes the excution could use a little work lol..

    But overall .. THANK YOU! I love AP


  • PurpleAraucana
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    two comments:

    first, i'm in a public profession that involves a lot of opportunity for very public, personal performance evaluation. based on my experience, public ridicule doesn't improve performance, it stunts it, and often leads to silent resentment or overt animosity. public praise increases productivity and pleasant social interaction. this is human nature.

    however, critical evaluation is essential to improve performance. it has its place. on AP that is in a private IM. serious critique is like a dance between cooperating partners. both participants in the interaction may or may not agree to public display.

    if public evaluation is really going to be useful, it must involve buy-in of all parties. it's obvious by the plethora of comments here, you do not have complete agreement.

    and finally, as to the worth of wordiness, i have two quotes that make my argument.

    Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
    And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
    I will be brief.
    ~William Shakespeare, Hamlet


    The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do. ~Thomas Jefferson

    enough said.


  • Starhiker
    July 27
    Edit | Reply

    Frankly,

    I agree with Kevin, that the changes in the star rating system will result in a much happier experience to many poets. I have long been annoyed with the system as it was before, when people exploited it to swindle points out of the rating system. One of the ways people did this was by making similar comments, sometimes to each other, then rank the comments with five stars, even if the comments were almost non-existent. True, some may turn to using bloated up comments, putting in redundant words for no reason what so ever, other than gaining more possible stars from the poem author... Some of you may say that I am doing exactly that in my last paragraph, but I'm doing it to prove a point. People who really want the constructive comments, and not comments full of filling, won't care about how many stars they are allowed to award the comment with; They will write back a reply to the comment!

    People need to get better comments to become better poets, and the readers need to learn how to MAKE better comments. Kevin has a good system for that here, if people just bothered to notice it. It appears under the comment box, and changes dynamically as you write more. If you have not seen it, take a look next time you comment on a poem. Comments does not always have to be either positive or negative, they can be neutral - but it is an OPINION, and that is what the poet wants, not lots of words saying nothing, just for the benefit of some comment rating stars. "Great work," or "This stinks," or other short comments does not tell the poet anything! It just tells that the reader did not bother to put in the effort to either read the poem properly, or to comment it properly.

    In summary, I wholly agree with Kevin on this change, and hope people learn to write better comments.

    To finish off, I quote Blaise Pascal. "I have made this one longer only because I have not had the leisure of making it shorter."

    Edit: Put in a few words to make first paragraph more understandable.


  • Sylvyrwyng gold member
    July 27
    Edit | Reply
    Hey Kevin,

    I agree with most of what you say however, I do think you could have phrased it better for most. I remember when there were no stars and such and still agree that there should be a letter count for the points. Especially for the those that are on the free accounts. I loved having to work my way into entering a poem. I love the critiques and the fact that you wish to have folks critique, rather than say "great job" and leave it at that. Doesn't say much for me but then I am not a child and I think therein may be a bit of a rub for most. Especially those with kids. But, be that as it may, this is your site and as the owner of it, I am glad that you at least include us in your changes so that we are not left in the dark. thank you for that.

    If you are working towards having people write longer and more critiquing comments, I am not sure that this is the correct way to go about it, but we will see where the chips fall. Personally, i don't care one way or another about comments, I am happy to have a place to share my work and enjoy reading others.

    I do hope that this helps.

    Christine


  • Matt E. Smith gold member
    July 27
    Edit | Reply
    Your logic is flawed: the majority of whom consume your 'product' are disagreeing with you and proper business etiquette would be to make them happy...regardless of what your 'vision' is.

    I think you will find that your vision includes losing a vast number of the people who currently give you money from their pockets to be here.

    You have failed to even address the questions regarding why you have made these decisions/updates without consulting the community first. It is a very "ME ME ME" mentality you are placing on display.

    Dude, someone's ego needs to be seriously deflated here and I don't believe it is the ones that are okay with the 'good job' comments.

    I have noticed any of my comments discussing this matter were deleted.

    Censorship, indeed.


    • S A Adelmann
      July 27
      Edit | Reply
      "the majority of whom consume your 'product' are disagreeing with you and proper business etiquette would be to make them happy...regardless of what your 'vision' is."

      How do you arrive at this "majority".

      I would say that, with well over 10,000 members, the majority don't seem to care one way or another.


      • Matt E. Smith gold member
        July 27
        Edit | Reply
        I don't believe there are 10,000 active members.
        However, in one day there was a petition of over 400 'signatures' before being deleted. I'd say of the people who do care and are paying members it is definitely a majority disapproving.


        • S A Adelmann
          July 27
          Edit | Reply
          If you hit the button on the bottom of the right-hand column "Show all online", you will see that there are easily two thousand people online right now.

          400 might seem like a lot, but when you consider that that means that every other member who was online during that time didn't care, it still is a long way from a majority. Not even close.

          All you can say for sure is that 400 people felt strongly about it, but to say it is a majority just isn't borne out by the facts - even the meager facts available to us civilians.


          • Matt E. Smith gold member
            July 27
            Edit | Reply
            I don't think much more than 400 would have seen the column while it was posted...perhaps there would have been a lot more signatures if that was the case. Point being... if there was a poll... I think it would largely show more of a negative reaction than positive.


            • S A Adelmann
              July 27
              Edit | Reply
              Well, now, if you had just said "I think" to begin with, I could've saved a lot of time and energy.

              It is kinda important to separate fact from opinion - and to be clear about the separation.


        • Kevin Moderators member
          July 27
          Edit | Reply
          From the front page: This week 14,128 users visited.

          Online forums are dangerous because they make it really hard to see just how many people are around.

          Making people happy is one thing. Making the world a better place is a better thing. I feel that helping people improve in their poetry does that... sure, I want to make them have as good a time as possible also, but a higher calling gets me up in the morning than just keeping people entertained.

          I'm not saying I don't care what people thing, on the contrary. No-one hates these political situations as much as I do (well, or maybe its a tie, some people really hate them!). But I'm not going to change my mind because 400 random members of the community say so - I'm much more likely to change it based on some good arguments and some time to think about alternatives.


          • Mari Goes gold member
            July 28
            Edit | Reply
            The points don't worry me at all. It's the idea that this new system will be the only method to allow us to choose to rate or not a comment. Look at your comments, they are (or used to be) quite short, do you feel that you didn't help people with those comments, at all? Would make such a big difference if they were longer ones? And if so, why did you choose for short ones?
            I know you are not going to change your decision (you rarely do), but we members of this site have the right to disagree with you, and show our discontentment in a way or other.


          • Matt E. Smith gold member
            July 27
            Edit | Reply
            Well, I have been on this site since February, which is when I began writing poetry and I can tell you my poetry has improved tenfold and it had nothing to do with any long critiques. I improved through reading other people, studying and yes, through encouragement.

            You have sharepoetry which to my knowledge is aimed more for critiquing/improving so I am unsure why you are trying to make this site the same way. I think allpoetry is more noted for the community aspect.

            Anyway, my point was... I think you could have handled it better. Like I said on the forum, the star-system is not a big issue.. I was taken aback by the way you responded to people's disapproval of the change.


          • S A Adelmann
            July 27
            Edit | Reply
            Yeah - I knew the number was higher than 10,000 - I was kinda over-estimating the number of multiple accounts that might have logged in.

            Also, given that there is a policy forum, I would have expected at least a hundred of those who signed the petition to feel strongly enough to visit the forum and weigh in. (I am guessing maybe ten or fifteen have done so.)

            I know you are trying to tweek this, Kevin, and I am sure that ten or fifteen people won't like whatever you come up with, no matter what.


            • PurpleAraucana
              July 27
              Edit | Reply
              tweek it, yes. that i understand. he has every right to do that. he runs the site.

              however, i still strongly believe he has to consider the ill-will factor involved in public critique. it is a fact that people may not voice their resentment at unsolicited public rebuke, but they will feel it. that "community" feel that is advertised to the public, and truly felt by many, will dissipate. it will result in fewer participants, not more. it will result in fewer published pieces, not more. people need strokes in public, negative critique in private. seriously consider this fact, please, Kevin. that is all i am arguing for.

              also, large businesses are well aware that the number of actual product complaints is far greater than the number they receive. there are statistics kept on this somewhere; i don't have them in memory. because "only" 400 out of 14,128 (or whatever figures you want to use. Kevin knows best.) signed on to a complainants petition that was available for a limited period of time, leads me to strongly suspect that there are a far greater number of AP participants that agree with the general focus of the petition than signed it.


  • quantumsurveyor
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    Here's an idea for kiwigirljacks and piggyback: do what I do compose your comment in "notebook" or something similar and when you're happy with it copy/paste it into the AP comment box. I have to do this because of my own software problems and find it works 100%.

    • piggyback
      July 27
      Edit | Reply

      <

      I have done something similar in the past, but sometimes I might forget to go through that. Also, I often leave impromptu long critiques when I am so inspired and I think such a glitch should be fixed, is all.


  • zhaniswolf
    July 27
    Edit | Reply
    I have a habit of saying similar things to different people, because sometimes the poems make me feel the same way. Sometimes people write similar things, and I have the same ideas for different poems. I agree with purplearaucana down there


  • aboomer silver member
    July 27
    Edit | Reply
    I never counted the number of characters in a comment on my writes - I was just happy that someone took the time to read it!
    I would much rather see a system that rewards someone for 'returning the favor' - I have mostly given up commenting on writes as maybe only 1% even bother taking the time to return the favor. So - I just stopped reading most writes except for my favorites who take the time to return the favor (and I have a lot of favorites who no longer see me - as I don't see them!)......maybe that's not the best way to handle things, but otherwise most people just get discouraged enough they leave here and go to other sites.....a shame, really.
    anyways - I do understand your reasoning behind this. And I appreciate that you do try to change things here to make it a better site.
    best wishes


  • islekine gold member
    July 27
    Edit | Reply

    The site is yours to run as you wish...

    But what about people who RUN contests and say...I may or may not comment? I won't even enter those contests...maybe start with the source? Have it mandatory that you not only VIEW the poems in your contest...but Comment too! I find it rude to not even get a "good" job from the host.
    On another note...I am a free member...almost two years now and have written over 1,500 poems.....and have a weekly contest I do with two other members...one Silver, one Gold...
    we enjoy what we do...
    I will continue to comment as I always have...sometimes short,
    sometimes long, sometimes ego stroking...


  • Griswold silver member
    July 27
    Edit | Reply
    Well, this is a can of worms isnt it?
    And since I'm a fisherman at heart, I'll dip my hand in a squeeze a few.

    I believe I read long ago, the first time I got in trouble with site administration(over an adult picture) them sending me the link for site policy.
    Which in my sober stupor I must have read. If I recall correctly, the rating system now in place was always supposed to be in place. It just didnt work.

    I think they must have fixed it.

    that's not saying I prefer it this way now, I liked it the way it was actually,
    but I can also see Kevin's point of view, even if I don't agree with it.

    Now I don't feel there is any reason to go throwing the big "C" word around,
    again in site policy it states that no works of an inflammatory nature are allowed.

    There are many things here we can all agree to disagree on,
    I came from another site, I found this one better.
    AP is much more interactive with contests and IM's and groups and so on.
    The sterile Starlite as I call it, was Mrjunkman not Griswold.

    There are no classes to take to help you improve,
    and their challenges I can do with my eyes closed now.

    I came here for the interaction with my betters and peers,
    and have learned and grown tremendously in almost 3 years here.
    Change is inevitable, perhaps it will spark longer and more meaningful comments, perhaps not. Only time will tell.

    Sure we should all have a say in our preferences, to anybody it really matters to, they will find this place.

    But then again Griswold's opinion matters about as much as a fart in a windsock.

    It is now duly noted.


    • SubKitten
      July 27
      Edit | Reply
      People are throwing the "C" word around (as you put it) because even the politest petitions are being censored simply because they don't agree with what Kevin's doing. That IS censorship.


      • Griswold silver member
        July 27
        Edit | Reply
        I personally do not see it quite that way. As stated in my comment, site policy does not allow you to post anything that is inflammatory. But that being put aside, this site is Kevin's creation and as much as we do not like change, change will happen.
        Now people getting up in arms and slandering or at best insulting the site owner is ridiculous. They are ALLOWED to post on this site, it is a privilege that is revocable and for some it has been revoked. A sure fire way to add yourself to that list is to go against site policy.
        The "petition" as it was called was polite enough in itself, but the comments and the ire that were displayed caused a ruckus that was not acceptable to admin. so it was removed. If you feel that is censorship, that is your opinion. I call it common sense. No one lets a rebellion build right under their noses. If you truly feel that it was censorship maybe another site would be better for you. But let me tell you, they all have their policies and procedures about what can an cannot be posted. I do not like the change in the star rating, and that is what this whole thing is about, censorship has nothing to do with it, something was posted against site policy and was removed for said reason. Why do people scream censorship? This column Kevin has posted is where things like this are addressed, not out there where it will do no good whatsoever except for letting somebody start a riot. The rating system is working properly now, it never did before, accept it and write. I see more energy put into this foolishness than is put into writing meaningful poetry. I'm personally here for the poetry not the politics... Just my opinion... Scott


        • cricketjeff gold member
          July 27
          Edit | Reply
          I PAY to post on this site, I am not ALLOWED to do so. If The site had no commercial side your comment would be true, you also pay, by seeing the ads that are placed here, as soon as you accept a payment or a service from someone else in exchange for something the whole game changes, there is then a contract between the parties. It may be an explicit contract or an implied contract but it is a contract nonetheless.
          However this is not the issue here, there was no criticism of the site or the site owner in at least one deleted column, merely a request for those who agreed to join with the poster in asking for the situation to be changed back. This was a perfectly reasonable action. Deleting it was not.


          • Griswold silver member
            July 27
            Edit | Reply
            Just a couple of things from the terms of service we all have to accept to post on this site.

            "By submitting material such as comments, messages, bulletin board topics, bulletin board comments, and anything not a work of art covered above, you grant us the royalty-free and sublicensable right to use, modify, translate, adapt, and republish.

            No compensation will be paid with respect to the use of your Submission, as provided herein. We are under no obligation to post or use any Submission you may provide and may remove any Submission at any time at our sole discretion.

            By Posting a Submission you warrant and represent that you own or otherwise control all of the rights to your Submission as described in these Terms of Use including, without limitation, all the rights necessary for you to provide, post, upload, input or submit the Submissions.

            If you should go againt our TOU and post material you do not own or control the copyright for, you take full responsibility for legal fees for our defense or court-awarded penalties.

            We have the right but not the obligation to modify or delete content for any reason. We reserve all rights with regard to refuse service to anyone, for any reason."


            I did not say the column itself was abusive, but the comments on it were, to the site and it's owner.

            We both know this has happened on more than one occasion, and recently as well.

            None of us like it, but it is what it is.


            • cricketjeff gold member
              July 27
              Edit | Reply
              Those are the published terms, however that does not mean they are the terms of the contract. For a contract to be valid there must be equity between the parties. If the more powerful party relies on the terms to do something unreasonable a court may very well strike it down. HOWEVER that is not the point, just because there is a rule that says moderators can act unreasonably would not mean I had to like it. And if someone censors my opinion, even if they have the perfect right to do so, I assert my own right to protest reasonably.


      • PassionsPromise gold member
        July 27
        Edit | Reply
        The reason they are being censored OOOPS the "C"word..is Because it states that, no poet/s should bash ap..(i know I been in trouble for this) anything will cause a controversy such as well...this....is unaccetable behavior and will be CENSORED...It stated that in the guidelines (ya in wich i had to read several times, because of above, i been there) Actually I am quite surprised Kevin hasn't deleted the contests I seen running. I wont join them. Do I agree with the change??? No I do not, never said I did. But why argue about it? Its his site to do as he wishes. I think the amount of characters is outrageous. But when I joined this site, it was about learning poetry, and with alot of help from poets on here with their comments/critiques over 200 characters or under..I have learned something new and am grateful. Like the poet above I came here from two other sites and even though I don't agree with some things, it is a much better one then the others.

        Coming down hard on the site owner isnt going to better anything, learn a way of working around it. There are more serious issues to tend to on this site then a star system. Such as minor children under 18 reading and writing erotica, or even viewing it for that matter. I understand he is working on that..at least to minimize them viewing it and such. I say, when one comments give what you can then go read a piece by them, interact with eachother not the stars. Forget the stars, shine on the poet, show your appreciativeness to the poets comment by returning it. Respect another poet. I do agree people should leave longer comments to explain "your piece is too cliche", well okay why do you think that? Can you make a suggestion to better it? ect. Instead of giving someone "your poem sucks, I could do better"
        okay, why do you not like it, explain yourself dont leave a poet saddened because of bitter words. Hell, for all that goes, look around at the coments below you...then say " Just read two comments down and their opinion that this piece was too cliche, I found to be very touching and heartfelt, and appreciate someone who can pen with such emotion" we can always find time to say more.

        I do not comment for the reimbursement. I comment to show I read it and whether I liked it or not. Its my job as a poet to venture and comment whether for no stars or 20 stars...We are here to improve our fellow peers..So why let a star system destroy a good community???

        just accept what is and see how you can better yourself in commenting. You never know what will happen in the future just make do with what you have today.


        Passionspromise


        • kiwigirljacks gold member
          July 27
          Edit | Reply
          I agree! Well said hun!!
          I love AP for the community aspect and the fun side of it. I don't comment for star ratings.. never have.

          I'm staying right here on AP

          Love you!
          ♥


        • Wolf Mistress silver member
          July 27
          Edit | Reply
          I stand behind you too sweet Lady,

          You have soooooooooooo right.....


        • Griswold silver member
          July 27
          Edit | Reply
          This is why I love you so...


          • PassionsPromise gold member
            July 27
            Edit | Reply
            shhh..now stop that this is a public place. Venting / assisting...Tory at their service


            • Griswold silver member
              July 27
              Edit | Reply
              Hey, hey, hey now!! Your service is for me only!!!! You want me at door #1 or #2??


        • SubKitten
          July 27
          Edit | Reply
          There's a difference between bashing AP and politely making a petition to show Kevin how many people want this changed back. I don't leave comments for the points I get, I leave them because I have something to say. But when someone comments on my work, that I put the effort into, I should be the one to decide whether or not to rate the comment and what to rate it. Not the system.


          • PassionsPromise gold member
            July 27
            Edit | Reply
            I understand that, My god if I hear anymore this poets column got taken down because it was a petition, I understand this and know the poet is not a vicious one meaning to attack but voices with concern. BUT in the policy it says " anything that will lead to a controversy and a uproar on the site will not be acceptable" no matter how sweet it was, it caused a stir, a big one. I agree with you. WHoleheartedly. I also see his point in giving more input on a poets piece. Cant hate a person for that. I dislike what hes doing, but, cant much do anything about it. Me ranting and raving wont solve a thing. All I say is, its not worth leaving or getting a whole lot of people angrier. Your voice should be heard and am glad people are doing so reasonably. But there are some that arent do to this column that was removed. *sigh* I stand behind the poets actions, but, also, know that they knew that it was against site policy. No matter how sugary it was. I hate changes I do.


  • deathbyfrootloopsxx
    July 27
    Edit | Reply
    I've been with AP for almost five years now. I have 138 poems up and can't even tell you the number of comments I've had on all my poetry. I remember almost none of them.

    I agree with you to an extent. I believe that there is too much 'ego-stroking' going on, and people should take time to tell others what they feel needs fixed. However, the one comment that I remember getting on a poem was only 67 characters long. It was from my sister, and said that my poem had left her breathless and in tears. I have always looked up to my sister and wished I could write poetry like she did. That comment was what made me change from just "venting on paper", to examining the words I used and the rhymes I chose to make the poem truly powerful, beautiful, and meaningful.

    Sometimes good works deserve an ego-stroke. And aspiring poets NEED comments that just say 'you've come a long way. please keep going'. If I hadn't had those comments, I wouldn't be the poet I am today.

    I'm not a paying member, so I don't have quite the fire in me as some do. I understand where you're coming from in this, and I understand your opinion. However, when you actually delete (or "censor") a column where your paying members are expressing their concerns, you know there's a problem.

    If members are paying, they enjoy what this site has to offer. I believe they are willing to work out some sort of compromise here if you are willing to listen to their side. Merely hushing their opinion is only going to hurt this site in the end. And this truly is a great site - I hate to see it come to that.

    Bottom line is, there are people out there who will leave constructive comments. There are some who will read a good piece, but recognize that the benefits are not worth a comment. And there are MANY who have already left and will continue to leave the site over this. They truly just want to be heard. You just have to be willing to listen.


  • raspberry Greeters member
    July 27
    Edit | Reply
    Kevin..

    I applaud you taking care for the poets here.. Ofcourse, all of us love to hear a meaningful comment

    Archana..

  • superl337sauce
    July 27
    Edit | Reply

    I agree with Kevin.

    I agree with you, Kevin. I'm sure everyone will get used to it after awhile.

    Even if a brief comment condenses a lot of good critiques into a small package, there's nothing stopping the poet from going to the accounts page and manually dishing out points, or perhaps leaving a heartfelt reply of gratitude. It's not like points are especially hard to come by anyways.

    If you're paying for membership and you sincerely don't like the new system, the solution is simple: stop paying, pack up, and leave. I'm sure Kevin expected a temporary dip in membership when he reinstated this new system. It's not like he's running a democracy.

    Also, remember that while "ego-soothing" may not apply to you in particular or your other buddy on AP, Kevin has deemed it an overwhelming trend, enough so that he's decided to instate a controversial new policy in an attempt to curb stagnancy.

    On a side note...
    I don't see why poets should get so upset when users view their poetry and don't leave a comment. How many times have you passed by a painting or heard a song in the elevator and not really had anything to say about it? In fact, more than likely you didn't say anything at all. Furthermore, a reader may not actually read the poem even if s/he visited the page. Likewise, the reader may not be able to find anything to say that hasn't been said already.


  • Jesann gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    Dear Kevin
    I can see that your goal..was to encourage people to IMPROVE !!!
    You state "In order to improve, it is necessary for comments on a poem to have meaningful content"

    This in fact, is just ONE opinion or perspective, and just ONE way, YOUR way without intending to be rude, I totally disagree.
    My opinion is.. that it's a very MINOR element in assisting people to improve.
    The majority of my improvement has come from viewing/reading other poets work, noticing impact, tangents, perceptions, broadening my own perspectives etc...
    Most comments I've been given in regard to suggested improvement, I have ignored because in actual fact, I, THE POET intend to leave the poem as is....because I like it that way.
    Or it's obvious from the comment, that the person has totally misunderstood the meaning of the whole poem, or not even read the whole poem.

    Comments : It's the positive comments, long or short, that have given me the CONFIDENCE and ENCOURAGEMENT, to continue writing and to PARTICIPATE on this site.

    I believe you underestimate the importance of encouragement for people's IMPROVEMENT.
    I believe I HAVE improved over the (almost) 12 mths on being here.

    I joined the site to read poetry & share some of my own.

    I DIDN'T join...to be schooled in the art of poetry !!!!!
    I came, to be myself and to appreciate others....OPEN to leaning & improvement, in my OWN way.
    NOT as TOLD....by someone else.

    Which I have enjoyed to this point.

    You obviously have your own opinion on how people improve, however it seems you are not open to the opinions of others...on how they actually learn to improve.

    " Ego - soothing frustrates you" !!!!!!
    Well I find your arrogance frustrating...as you're obviously not listening to site members.
    And are FIXED in your own personal opinion !!!

    Your statement in..2nd paragraph of updates..."To that, I would say that you're not trying to improve"
    Excuse me...that is so judgmental, rude and arrogant...you seem to think you have the one & only formula for people to improve.

    It may work for some,BUT I hope you're listening...it DOESN'T work for me !!!

    There are groups set up on here for those who WANT extra assistance, or critique comments etc etc
    There are also places on here to go & be taught, different styles of poetry, haiku etc etc.

    So let us do OUR OWN improving at our own pace, in our own way ...
    instead of dictating it the way you see it.

    Cheers.

    • groovy afternoon
      July 27
      Edit | Reply
      I absolutely love what you have written here!


    • Rose Dark Thorn silver member
      July 27
      Edit | Reply

      Jesaan

      I completely agree with pretty much everything you have said. I improve in the exact same manner you do; by reading and being influences by others, etc. I very rarely take anyone's "critique" about what THEY think work and use it unless I agree with them, which is almost never. If I like the poem as is, then it simply stays that way. I have gotten so much better in the five years I've been here WITHOUT critiques. I didn't need them to improve and I'm not going to need them for as long as I write. That doesn't mean I won't take their suggestions into consideration; just that most of what they have to say normally doesn't work for me and Kevin is being pretty biased. I'm sure there are people who ego stroke a lot and that's all they're interested in...but those are people who aren't serious, or aren't ready to be serious about their writing. Those who are have their own way of improving; those who don't care about improving simply never will whether the rating system is changed or not.


  • silver-X-lining gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    I'm inclined to say that some short comments I've received have actually included much more useful information (like 'work on the third stanza' or 'too much repetition', etc) than much longer filler comments with too much filler information. A lot of people get right to the point in their comments and give very helpful criticism WITHOUT taking up a lot of space with filler compliments. And of course there are plenty of people who write very long comments... without saying much at all.


  • Aussie Gypsy gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    I for one wish I hadn't just paid for a years gold membership to have no freedom of speech. This is not going to force people to leave better or more constructive comments. It will force them to leave FILLER comments full of fluff just to get to the limit to get 5 stars to say Oh run a contest or promote their work at 50 points a click. Ridiculous example of not listening to the people


  • Rose Angel gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    Dear Kevin ...Just as critiquing painting, the viewer or reader has to have experience in properly commenting..
    Perhaps your wanting to improve poetry by the commenting has come as far too harsh all of a sudden...and to those who feel they are paying their membership fees to respond as they wish.. I am all for helping one and all become better poets....It appears harsh all of a sudden to be introduced to this system....Perhaps there is a better way to encourage better commenting?


  • Dark Geometry
    July 26
    Edit | Reply

    Rotton idea

    Anyone who even leaves a comment deserves three stars for taking the time. I wonder if this is why I haven't recieved any comments on my most recent piece. Thanks guy. Oh, how many characters was that?


  • AngelBellerose gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply

    I do not support the new comment system.

    Case closed for a better term of words !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ricachic gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    Kevin, I'm a gold member and I pay a fee for nothing more than to have the ability to stroke and be stroked, as such I want to keep this ability to have a little control over that process. This is a business to you and we are your customers, stop trying to blow smoke up our asses, if this comes down to the cost of bandwidth and your ability to generate income just tell us so, I like and enjoy this site very much and wouldn't want to see some of the friends I've made leave over this issue, please leave the rating system alone, I'm generally long winded anyway so this new system won't affect me much but there are others out there that are short and to the point. I value their comments much more than many a blowhard such as myself. I realize this is your show but I think you might as a business listen to your customers on this one.
    I do not support the new comment system.
    Thank you for your time
    Rick


  • MichaelSavage gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    When I go to a store to buy a shirt, I want satisfaction or money back gaurantee. It's simple curtesy from owners. In other words, if I am going to pay for something I want a say so in it. I think what I say in comments can be said with critique and kindness all rolled into one and in short order if need be. I don't have to drag it out to say what I need to say. This is a poetry site and if we want to say something on comment we should be allowed to say it the way we want, short of being rude, of course. If my work stinks, that can be said by STINKS. It does not need 5 paragraphs to explain how stinky it is. I do believe we grow as a poet by critique and if we want that we should ask for it in comment section. It seems so simple, then why has it become so complicated, and why don't the paying members have a say so? And, what happened to our freedom of speech? Now, we HAVE to say more in order to comment?? So much for freedom of speech.
    Michael


    • AngelBellerose gold member
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      well said Micheal ..
      you always know how to say the just the right words and no bull ..love it hun.. always love Angel♥


  • Daniela Violin silver member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    Kevin could very well take this site offline, then what would happen?


    • SerenityNChains gold member
      July 26
      Edit | Reply

      < He would lose....

      Lots of money! See I know someone on here in which Kevin tried to sell the site to over 4 yrs ago. How much? $500,000!! Now the site gets ad sponsorship, paid memberships keep getting higher, and he sells points t shirts and so on. He makes a LOT of money from this site. He will/would not remove the site, so let us ask a more useful snyde question ok.


      • Daniela Violin silver member
        July 26
        Edit | Reply
        This was in response to what someone said. I read her column that she was complaining about being censored and said that she was going elsewhere so I asked to set up my point. A checkmate sort of thing.


        • Riftkin gold member
          July 26
          Edit | Reply
          There are other sites, I for one have been asked to join such a site. I love it here. I do not want to go, but I am thinking of just writing for myself, reading my friends, and not leaving any messages where others can read but sending them IMs with my comments. That way I do not have points, so do not have to hold contests, give reviews or any of the other stuff that is being demanded of me here on this site.


    • karma-n-peace
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      HAHAHAHA... Kevin would lose big bucks and I'd get together with SpdurPoet and between the two of us we would open a site and WE would make the big bucks.
      Sure there is a lot of work involved but do you really think KEVIN the all mighty (in your mind) is the only one who can get a site like this going?
      Do you think no other person (or people) alive are capable of creating a site or even PAYING a pro to create a site for them?

      And I am sorry but do you realize how ridiculous it sounds to demand a person to shut up about censorship ROFLMRO!


      • Daniela Violin silver member
        July 26
        Edit | Reply
        I never said that Kevin was the ONLY one but we should appreciate the work he does. To quote spydurpoet below: "the word you don't want me using"

        it worked did it not? Have a good day.


        • karma-n-peace
          July 26
          Edit | Reply
          I also appreciate the site, whether Kevin created it himslef or had it created matters not.
          I loved AP and was satisfied with the amount of money I spent.
          And actually you did say... and I quote
          "Kevin could very well take this site offline, then what would happen?"
          So I answered you, simply and plainly.
          As for your comment regarding being proud that you somehow got her to stop using that word CENSORSHIP, she was being sarcastic...
          and if you continued to read what she had to say in later posts you would be shocked and upset to see that she not only typed the word censorship but she also typed the word censoring.




          • Daniela Violin silver member
            July 26
            Edit | Reply
            the only reason I commented in the first place was because she capitalized that word and only that word and capitalized it four times in as many comments.

            I know she was being sarcastic.

            and Kevin owns and created the site back in 1999. Although it can be done I doubt many people can make a site like this and make it work let alone for that long.



            • karma-n-peace
              July 26
              Edit | Reply
              Okay, so you haven't been using a computer long have you.
              Well you need to take some time and surf around, you will then see that MANY MANY MANY MANY people create and run sites that are amazing for many many many many years.
              In fact did you know that they have schools that actually teach people how to do this kind of thing?
              I know! WOW huh!


              • Daniela Violin silver member
                July 26
                Edit | Reply
                really?!? I didn't know that! I'm SOOOO happy you told me.

                (sidenote: I just checked your page to see how old you were because I thought you were a teenager)


    • SpydurPoet gold member
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      I'd go back to the site I was before, hopefully the incredible people I have come to LOVE here at this site would go to the same site, and we'd be a happy family again with no...ummm...the word you don't want me using.


      • Daniela Violin silver member
        July 26
        Edit | Reply
        So if you're so upset about it that you have to capitalize and effectively yell "censorship" 4 times why don't you go there now?


        • SpydurPoet gold member
          July 26
          Edit | Reply
          As gatheren said, hoping that things will go back to the way they were. If you haven't noticed, you're in the minority here. Most people agree that it should go back to the way it was, and that it was wrong to change it without so much as a poll or notification prior to the change.
          I know a lot of people who are already removing their poetry to a safer spot and not going to pay for membership here anymore.

          That says a lot more than censoring someone's concerns about censorship.


          • karma-n-peace
            July 26
            Edit | Reply
            CENSORSHIP CENSORSHIP CENSORSHIP CENSORSHIP...
            Is that 4? yep...
            I'll be right there with ya at the new site
            But just like you said, I'd rather see the members of this site being treated with the respect of a grown up and stay here.
            As for this site not being a right but a privilege I have to disagree, when you pay hard earned money for something you do have some rights as well as expectations.
            The same rights and expectations as any paid member of any group and any club anywhere in the land of the free. LOL




          • Daniela Violin silver member
            July 26
            Edit | Reply
            I am in the minority because I realize that this site is a privilege not a right.

            and by the way...
            policy board:
            http://allpoetry.com/board/topic/268661677

  • SpydurPoet gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    Yup yup yup
    CENSORSHIP!


  • edit my world.
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    in all honesty these "ego boosting" commnets you say whether you believe it or not, keep people writing they make people enjoying coming to this site and reading a poem, and there are times when people have given my a comment and i've asked for a more depth comment in private so i can improve. sometimes people don't want how crappy their poems are displayed on their piece. it can hurt a persons pride. and i agree with half the people saying that it's not even close to being fair that you just up and switch this on anyone and not ask nor let people know. that's like the my school attaching monitors to me the first day of school and know one even mentioned it. it's not fair and you're going to lose a lot of money possibly for doing this. in all honesty, i'm going to miss the usual, "you're poem brought tears to my eyes" as to your 3rd line was crap take it out this this and that iss wrong and your punctuation is lame.

    so think about that .


  • Allyce May gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    A lot can be said in a short poem; can the same not be said for comments? Personally, I believe in quality, not quantity.


    • Allyce May gold member
      July 27
      Edit | Reply


    • deathbyfrootloopsxx
      July 27
      Edit | Reply
      Interestingly enough, you summarized and emphasized the complaints that everyone else is making, and did it quite efficiently and with power. Yet your comment was only 98 characters long.

      Thank you for proving your own point


  • karma-n-peace
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    "That's just ego-soothing. It's become a common thing on the site, and has frustrated me."

    It's ego soothing ( in your opinion ) and because YOU are frustrated by it doesn't mean that everyone else is.
    SO you own the site, I am only a visitor into your world and if I disagree with it I can just get up and go.
    Got it.
    thanx.

    BTW and FYI: perhaps there wouldn't be so many upset paying members if you had put this to a vote or something similar, I would think being a Gold Paying Memeber that my opinion would mean something but obviously not.
    I believe I read something somewhere here at all poetry regarding it being a great place to share and make friends, well some people need the "ego soothing" support of great write and hope you keep writing rather than the harsh criticsm of " you aren't good enough and need to improve"
    Not everyone who desired to be a poet and express their feelings under the anonymity of the site learns or improves the way you or others believe they should.
    Sometimes people just need the support of their peers in order to come out of their shell to find the poet within.
    Also, since your goal is to see improvement in anothers poetry writing skills did you ever stop to think maybe they are satisfied with their skill?
    What does the "My own Style" mean under the categories?
    How are you expecting people to impove a style that is their own and is perhaps meant to be exactly as it is?

    Why is is that anothers opinion of someones personal write is a determiantion of how well that person writes...in their own style?

    Why not just add a link to the site for "critical reviews only" on poetry or "advanced poets only" and then charge more to be member of that site?




  • requiempoet gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    I agree. There are tons of ego soothing, while that's good, it doesn't help improve the ultimate goal, to be the best poet you can be.

    @ BlueRew he's not saying that at all, but having poems you want critiques on but only have ego stroking comments are nothing but annoying. I want people to tell me that this poem sucks, or it needs a little work on stanza A,B or C.


    @ Ric, If you want ego stroking go find some of your friends and tell them to read a poem, and ask them what they think. No one is forcing you to pay the membership fee, there IS a free option.

    • ricachic gold member
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      P, the reality is we all need the constuctive criticism, this is part of the learning process, but the stroking works hand in hand, sometimes all we need to continue writing is a good old fashioned pat on the back. I just read several of your poems, all of which were very well written and "visually" stimulating as well. It is obvious that you are a much better poet than myself, but I learn as much by observation if not more than by direction. Not feeling qualified to critique a poet of greater ability I might read your poems and comment on how nicely you penned the piece and that I look forward to your next write, I've just stroked your ego, we all crave acceptance. Out of the 5 poems of yours that I read, all comments were of the stroking nature, how would it make you feel to open AP and see that others were reading your poems but not one of them left a comment. You have to realize the better you get the fewer poets are going to feel qualified to give you the desired comments. With the new rules I will read but not leave as many comments. I still get what I want from my little group of AP friends and you'll get what you want from yours, but what about that little kid from Pakistan struggling with the english language, how is he going to get his? He's still going to need that little pat on the back that he's been getting from us average "Joes", he dosn't need to be told his poem needs work, all is needed here is a little "stroke" in order to keep writing. But you are correct, nobody is forcing me or any one else here to pay the membership fee, that is truly our only real choice on this site. I do however hope that we including yourself have the freedom to express our discontent with something that we are opposed to. This site means much to us all.
      You have a wonderful evening and don't take any of this too seriously, it is what it is.
      One last thing, as far as the free option is concerned, I always pay my own way Doll, no free ride for this old country boy.

      Rick


      • requiempoet gold member
        July 26
        Edit | Reply
        Rick,
        I do check the " views on my poetry " option" and I see several people who haven't left comments on my poetry, it makes me angry, but I let it go. My group of AP friends can chose not to comment or they can comment...but ultimately it's up to them. A little ego stroking is cool, but essentially doing it for the purpose of not hurting peoples feelings...life is hard...sometimes you hear what you don't want to hear...etc...

        LOL I like the Gold membership option myself as well :-)


        Rosita


    • karma-n-peace
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      Perfect example of rudeness and sarcasm.

      Yes there "IS" a free option but as I am sure you are aware the free option is not the same as the pay. Aren't you?

      How about YOU go to the free option, YOu ARE NOT the ONLY paid member here that has an opinion, since your is in agreement with the owner perhaps your opinion may be the only one that counts but this does not mean that you and your opinion are right.

      Unlike some of the members here others don't require any comment at all and are peace with what they have written and the comments left.
      SO if YOU require the input of other members to validate your opinion of what you have written then maybe YOU need to message YOUR friends and have them leave a comment...


      • requiempoet gold member
        July 26
        Edit | Reply
        Where was the rudeness and sarcasm? You're the only one that is being rude as far as I'm concerned. I am a lifetime paid member. One fee that's it. I accept the changes as they come, because one thing might work for awhile, it might not work always...and I think that's what Kevin is doing right now that's it.

        And I should have stated that I like to do a little bit of 'ego' soothing, but only if the poem warrants it...and as much constructive criticism as possible.

        As far as my friends are concerned, they comment if they want and they don't if they don't want to, they leave the dumb little star things if they want and if they don't want to that's ok too. It's entirely up to them, but I don't let comments and lack of comments ruin my day.


        Have an enjoyable night and don't take this too seriously.


  • Yvette Champ gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    Kevin,
    I appreciate your intent, that of endeavouring to enourage longer comments in the hope that a more verbose comment may be more constructive than one that is shorter, more concise. Yes, allpoetry is a community poetry site where we are able to workshop our creativity but a short comment isn't necessarily sharp no more than a lengthier comment is necessarily more useful surely?



    Surely by introducing a policy where an electronic system counts characters we are agreeing to a machine, to technology, deciding what we are able to, and wish to, decide for ourselves?


    It's a paradox that we have freedom of speech but are being asked to accept that a system and not ourselves, only has the freedom to assess the usefulness of a comment. Is that not another step towards an Orwellian society?



    I reiterate that I appreciate and indeed respect your worthy intent but perhaps instead of this new ratings system you could take a poll of ap poets re their suggestions?

    Perhaps also a column re useful comments that you suggest?

    Finally, not all poets are seeking critical feedback, some poets here are published and do not need it, some poets post poems for personal reasons and seek only an emotional response rather than a constructive critique.


    The system whereby the poet chooses to ask for either a comment OR critical feedback works, the system whereby the poet( and not an electronic abacus counting each character ) chooses their own summary of a comment left to them, works.



    Please would you reconsider reverting to the previous 5 star system based on how the comment made the poet feel?



    Yours Sincerely,



    Yvette













    • Fallen Archangel
      July 27
      Edit | Reply
      Exactly.
      To add, because of the different types of poets we have we can't assume that this new system is going to provide the results you wish for it.
      Those that gave constructive feeback prior to this system will continue to do so and those that gave short emotional responses will continue to do so.
      From the people I've known in the past and the different types of personalities I've seen I can only assume that this will spark those who care what comment rating they get to rambling a bit more.
      It's a tossup whether that rambling would be constructive or just a long and drawn out list of variations on how to say, "hey, that was pretty good."...

      Personally, how the system functions is irrelevant. I don't see it having a huge impact all in all. But as best as I can see the only users talking about it are the ones who don't like it, thus the rest are at best indifferent. So in the current state the system only pleases half the site whereas the previous one was fine and dandy.


      Point - Don't mess with a good thing. =]


    • Aussie Gypsy gold member
      July 27
      Edit | Reply
      Perfectly worded my dear, perfectly worded. I would give you 5 stars for such an intelligent response but alas I can't

    • kiwigirljacks gold member
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      Wonderful comment!


  • SpydurPoet gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    Amera had a petition up against this.
    CENSORED!
    I have a column up about this. Probably going to be CENSORED.
    And they DO get cash when people BUY points instead of EARN them.


  • gatheren
    July 26
    Edit | Reply

    Legal Matters

    To Kevin,
    Although your membership does not contain legal notifications or statutes of contracts, you are bound by the limitations of the WWW statutes.
    Since you did not make agreements or contracts via longterm membership, monthly membership, etc, and only based on what the person was paying for, the terms of the contract are based on the statutes of the WWW.
    This includes statutes of notifications of 10-15 days prior to any changes. Also, subject to only those without contracts of membership.
    Members covered by the WWW statutes are held by a higher contract which will not be changed otherwise refund or suitable reimbursement of such change in contract will be given.
    I am notifying you that you have broken contract with all paying members, which will lead to legal action. I am hoping to resolve this before legal action becomes necessary.

    • kiwigirljacks gold member
      July 26
      Edit | Reply

      <

      I didn't know this! Thank you for enlightening me on this subject.


    • Danny Beatty gold member
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      yeah, you are correct here, and fine writing in the acceptance of terms cannot supercede specific laws ... it is about time this was said ...

      I know you are correct and if a class action suit should go forth, contact me, please.


  • Blue Rew silver member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"~
    John Ray, 1670
    Are you saying we aren't mature enough to evaluate
    the comments received? But yet we are mature enough
    to give monetary value to this site? Who has the right
    (owner or not) to dictate what is found useful to another's
    creative energy? Whose ego is showing now?
    Censorship is wrong. Columns have been removed and now
    it seems our outcry will be labeled as ego rather than
    creative righteousness. You have a community here that
    supports one another in natural communications...
    Your changes and excuses are saying one thing:
    Do it your way or be deleted. I can't be anything but disgusted.
    Blue


    • poet2angels gold member
      July 27
      Edit | Reply
      Blue, After reading your comment, I could not think of a better way to address it than you did. I especially was touched by

      " You have a community here that
      supports one another in natural communications..."

      that is what I love about all of the friends that I have made on this site. I also have friends who send me a personal message if I have a typo or something that could be better expressed by using a different word, etc....
      Now, my friends are leaving one by one and I find that so sad. With all of the drama here lately, I find myself here less and less. One thing I will never change is the way in which I comment. I do that from my heart and will not have the words that I choose determined by anyone but me.

      Thank you for expressing what I was too upset to say

      Lynda


    • SpydurPoet gold member
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      Thank you. THANK YOU. It is nice to know that I am not the only one who immediately thought censorship on this.
      I think that when it comes to poetry, or writing, or any art in general, being censored is the fastest and best way to piss off the artist, excuse my language.
      Write on.
      ~*~SP~*~

    • groovy afternoon
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      Blue thank you. I also read what you wrote and I am in total agreement with you. I too feel annoyed and disgusted at the way this situation is being handled and I felt that it was most necessary to say so. The only way to be heard is to speak up. I hope that more poets will weigh in their opinion here too as well. Thanks again!

  • groovy afternoon
    July 26
    Edit | Reply

    MY OPINION

    The truth of the matter in my opinion is this, one would think that you would be more up in arms about people who click on other people's work and refuse to leave a comment. I find that truly offensive and rude and not to mention frustrating. Now when somebody takes the time to actually leave a comment, the poet whose work is being commented on no longer has the right to value and appreciate the time and effort that a person took by leaving the comment in the first place? Come on now, that is totally ridiculous and out of bounds. One learns to better their craft by encouragement, and by allowing self room to breathe, not by rule of law. The only outcome I foresee with this new rule is alienation of us all and what would be the sense of that?

    Now it seems that a few people have taken exception to this new rule of yours, I had wished to read some of their comments and such and I find that there are no where to be found, what happened to them? Why did you take them down? Isn't this a free thinking, democratic and productive site, even if people disagree with you there is such a thing as freedom of speech, you are annihilating this very thing that drives us to be who we are.


    Look...I would have to conclude that people love it here and they keep on coming back because this site gives us a place to vent, better ourselves and in some cases heal. You have done a good thing here by creating this site, but it seems to me that now you wish to curtail what you have started and that is a place where expression is valued and appreciated. Think about it, instead of mandating and forcing these changes, ask us how we feel if you were to do this. Appreciate the family feel you have created here and such an effort will not go unnoticed. This is how I feel.



    • SpydurPoet gold member
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      I completely agree with Blue Rew. You are completely right in what you have stated here.
      Write on.
      ~*~SP~*~


    • Blue Rew silver member
      July 26
      Edit | Reply
      Time and effort are and should be considered valuable...
      You make a very valid point. Clicks without comment should
      be addressed, not comments that fall short of "the authority's"
      presumption of what critique should be. Thank-you so much
      for weighing-in. Blue


  • kiwigirljacks gold member
    July 26
    Edit | Reply
    I read the updates.. as much as you would like that to happen.. most people here just will not leave a detailed comment, or have the ability to adequately critique a poem because people here are amatuers and lack the skill necessary to do so... so I think the comments they will leave will simply blah on about crap to fill up space. I certainly do not feel adequately qualified to leave a critique.. I'd rather give a brief encouragement.

    Yes, there are a few people who have the ability to critique.. they are the minority. If we want those critiques, we will go to those people.

    I always say how the poem makes me feel, but do not feel the need to go on and on about it... particularly if the poem isn't great, I'd rather just leave a brief comment, especially if they are in my contests and I need to comment.

    I do understand what you are trying to do... and I wish it would work.. I just don't believe it will.

    Again, I don't care about points, I get given enough so this isn't about me wanting points. I thought this site was supposed to be fun, not a chore.

    Nice try though.

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