Dirty Pretty breaks down by structure and theme
Themes are surrealist
-emotions embody objects I have been studying this
structure and observed the following deviations
The format should add to the reader's understanding of the poem
dirty pretty started with charcoal on skin
hieroglyphics spaced to tell a story
DIRTY PRETTY utilizes calligraphy
It presents a poem by
*non-alpha numeric Characters,
*non-uniform Capitalization
*spacing (use to create blank spaces)
to shape poetry, to add pause and/or denote line hierarchy
*alternative spellings
*and other deviations (color ...)
to visually impact how the poem is seen and digested.
Here is a poem a wrote with these structures
I’m the glasscutter.
With a di(A)mond wheel g_l_i_d_i_n_g in Oil,
a single stroke /
opens a fissure ----------
I gently Tap beside the line
deepening the grooVe
until with a ~twist of the wrists~
I separate /
the glass as planned.
rhyme and rhythm help me keep reading through a long piece
decoration can mark passages
allowing me to approach the poem from more than one direction
-image detail encroaches towards tactile familiarity
these encroachments sometimes crawl into the structure
trying to burst through the page to make a connection
Themes are surrealist
-emotions embody objects I have been studying this
structure and observed the following deviations
The format should add to the reader's understanding of the poem
dirty pretty started with charcoal on skin
hieroglyphics spaced to tell a story
DIRTY PRETTY utilizes calligraphy
It presents a poem by
*non-alpha numeric Characters,
*non-uniform Capitalization
*spacing (use to create blank spaces)
to shape poetry, to add pause and/or denote line hierarchy
*alternative spellings
*and other deviations (color ...)
to visually impact how the poem is seen and digested.
Here is a poem a wrote with these structures
I’m the glasscutter.
With a di(A)mond wheel g_l_i_d_i_n_g in Oil,
a single stroke /
opens a fissure ----------
I gently Tap beside the line
deepening the grooVe
until with a ~twist of the wrists~
I separate /
the glass as planned.
rhyme and rhythm help me keep reading through a long piece
decoration can mark passages
allowing me to approach the poem from more than one direction
-image detail encroaches towards tactile familiarity
these encroachments sometimes crawl into the structure
trying to burst through the page to make a connection
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Comments
1 - 99 of 99
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its so funny because the traditional part of me wants to say "This is stupid.". but at the same time this is really creative and really just an awesome way of self expression. to make a usually 1 dimension art form become not only wording but also a structured architectual piece is quite impressive. maybe a little too much for me. i'll have to try writing some of it on my own first before i post anything. this will take a while to get used to. its kid of hard to read :/
seeing as most of the punctuation makes me want to follow tradtional rules. :/ -
so, did ee cummings write dirty pretty?
(I haven't read any other comments, in case it's answered below.) -
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I write in 'dirty pretty' a lot, and this pretty much explains the concept, wonderful job!
~Annie
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Just Another Art Form
When all is said and done, poetry that is written WELL - whether it rhymes or not - is all that matters, surely. The words have to be FELT and the reader, inspired, or moved. How the piece is put down on the screen or the paper, does not really matter as long as the 'meaning' is felt. 'Dirty Pretty' as it is called, is just another 'style' of poetry. Writing, whatever the style, is relative, you either hate it or you don't. I have an open mind toward it as it is just another 'art form.'
But I do feel that there is too much snobbery around writing and writers.
Wayne Leon
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I'm not into hating anything
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a different definition: (of DIRTY pretty, not DIRRTY pretty)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dirty+pretty
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What a brilliant assessment of this style of poetry. I thnk you may have made me a fan.
As with all forms of poetry though, dirty pretty can be very badly done, and done without thought or intention. But then I suppose it wouldn't truly be poetry, woudl it? -
Done.
Whether we like it or not, Dirty Pretty is becoming a style of poetry. Not only do I see it on AP, but on other forums I visit, and in classes I teach. Poetry is an evolving art form, and DP is one of the many species of poem.
Where would we be if critics of e.e. cummings were able to silence him? New and different voices must be heard.
I think people shy away from giving credibility to Dirty Pretty because of the cliches that generally go with the DP poems and the fact that a lot of the time, the deviations have nothing to do with the poem.
I am taking ea's suggestion to include this in the book; examples need to be set if Dirty Pretty is to become an acceptable form of poetry. You've done a great job lending credibility to this style.
Elizabeth -
I'm glad this got featured because it does lend validity to this style for a lot of young writers on here. I think your poem is excellent and you should send it into tinuelena so she can add it to the second AP anthology.
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I write alot in a "dirty-pretty" way, but I didn't start out by using the extra punctuation inherent in the style. For me it started out with attitude, and changing the way the words looked on the screen, instead of straight up and down I gave the lines a pattern to change the rythmn, then later I learned to use the punctuation in a light way to slow down or speed up the read as I saw fit. Dirty Pretty is an easily cliche'd style.. JUST LIKE EVERY STYLE. Every time someone writes about glitter, slashed wrists and eyeliner in DP, it's cliche, and every time someone writes a Sonnet about love, it's cliche... ALL poetry is cliche if you really get down to it. There are millions of us typing away trying to find something new and innovative, and not a damn one of us has produced the works of William Shakespeare yet... monkeys have a better chance at that kind of happy accident. So to discount a style of poetry is ignorant. No it's not Shakespeare, and neither are the majority of playwrights in this world. But just like every other art there are a handful of highcalibur artists associated with DP, and you can't discredit them just because so many are muddying the waters.
Thank you, Matt, for this informative piece. -
i second what tragicallygifted said!!
she just about sumed it up in the way that i didn't! -
Firstly, your poem was essentially disappointing as it did not address the sound made by the cutter and the glass as the groove is scored - a singing scritch, like a quiet cricket.
Secondly, William Blake spent his working life in an attempt to present his poetry as visual as well as written art. This is a valid exploration of aesthetics, as was the work of the Surrealist poets including Andre Breton, as was the work of the Beat Poets of America and The Angry Young Men movement of England, as is the work of the dirrty-Pretty Brigade now. -
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I might include that noise
thank you
glad to hear you've such high expectations from me
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Had to come back to say.....
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Picaso dared to explore the relationship of shapes, cummings explored the world of words without the restrictions of grammtical rules and puntuation, Ginsberg challenged the poetic world to write with passion through image, jazz musicians search the spaces between notes and journey the side roads of melodies and now Dirty Pretty, for lack of a better term, poets are exploring visual aspects of words and shapes in communication. Concrete or form poetry also explores visual aspects of word structure and in free form or blank verse white space, line breaks, enjamment visits the relationship of word groups and thought.
I've learned that the earliest poetry known was written by Nordic tribes. It wasn't rhymed or metered. Alliteration was the poetic form of that day. However, consider the earlier cave paintings. These were pre-written language attempts at visual communication. Can we consider them poetic?
Language is merely a group of symbols used to communicate thoughts, ideas and feelings. The letters we use in the English language are not universal. Look at Russian, Chinese, Japanese and Greek.
I have now read some Dirty Pretty poetry and, though it is not a form in which I will choose to write nor is it a form I will curl up in my bed to read, I admire those who have ventured off the path and continue to explore. We need them. -
I hate reading this kinda poem. I find it so destractions when everything is diffrent. If people want to do its its ok. Its just one of the things i hate. The poems can be good but destroyed with over done anoyingniss. I rhink people need to be carefull not to over do it.
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seems like
there is a lot of hate for this category, which kind of upsets me.
just like hearing "(insert music genre here) sucks, its all crap, blah blah blah."
it clearly has the capacity to portray things that words, when used in 'proper' grammar cannot. it can be overdone, it can be tasteless. but, lets be honest folks, so can every form of art.
i suppose i write some stuff like this, but i call it syntactical poetic license. my favorite poet is e e cummings, and i respect the idea of using capitalization, spacing, and line breaks to great effect.
meh. dont hate. tolerate differences in opinion. -
Dirty Pretty can also employ spaces and punctuation for changes in voice timber and pauses
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Thank you so much for this column Matt.
I thought dirty/pretty poetry was all about attitude. A nice way of being billigerant... I've seen some poets work on this site, one in particular, outryder who used the structure you have here. For me, and remember I am from another generation, dirty/pretty is simply "beat poetry" like that of a Clevelander named, d.a.levy. Here' and example of what I know as "beat poetry";
http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/dalevy/levyjw.htm
This poem by levy was written in 1967. Others, such as Kerouac and Ginsberg wrote in this style as well. Poetry that goes against the grain is what I see as dirty/pretty (beat) poetry. I don't know that I have ever heard of the form until I read a work by AP's outryder. Here's a example of his work. It seems to coincide with your description of the form.
http://allpoetry.com/poem/3375542
Again, I thank you for this column. It truly sheds light on a form that very closely resembles the beat poets work of the 60's.
Much Love ♥
Renee
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... I really dislike that members came, took a style we've been using for years now, and gave it a name.
This was simply called "WORD ART" for an extremely long period of time. I am ashamed to even write in this style; given the huge amount of members who have taken it, put a bow on a bunch of pretty words, and called it art.
You're so-called "dirty pretty" is supposed to be filled with meanings and connections.
But I'm sorry, dolls; in all reality it's just a stolen form in which you've placed a bunch of empty words together, solely because they sound pretty together.
Thanks for ruining what was once a great outlet.
(( Btw: Make sure you don't use the same damn word in all of your poems if you're going to write in this style. I get tired of reading about anorexic china dolls choking on their rib cages, etcetc. )) -
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i used to write that way when i was younger but i quit doing so because i wanted to try something different than what i was doing. but i hate the label they gave it on here "dirty pretty". what kind of name is that to be quite honest?
i like word art but not when it's like that. a lot of what i have read is horrible, and yours more than likely is rather amazing. i like your views on this. i'm against the category dirty pretty because it seems like they just throw everything together, it's disgusting. it's like they don't feel it anymore.
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i guess...
ima DP poet.....
and didnt know it!!!!!
*
* ah hahahahaha!!!
but never really like that....jus with the words sometimes spaced weird and sometimes i add hearts and stars with astricks and such to my poems...but idk...its cool as long as i dont have to read it.
~
me.... -
I absolutely abhor dirty pretty. I've written one, just for kicks, but other than that I think it is the most abominable poetry form, if it even is a form. God strike me down the day it's taught in creative writing classes. I think poetry's beauty should lie in the words and words alone. Placement is critical, of course. But the unnecessary punctuation, spaces, and other superfluous additions detract, so much, from the piece itself. A dirty pretty poem may have the spirit, but is defiled with the gaudy tools used. Alliteration, metaphor, simile, assonance, and many more. These are the tools one should use in sculpting something beautiful but not overdone. Beauty lies in the natural form of something. Not a young girl plastered in makeup, you can't see her heart.
Anyway, I just hate it. -
Thanks for writing...I've been seeing this DP form a lot lately on AP...and I wasn't 100% sure what it was all about
I have to say there are some good poems out there with the DP "form"...and there are some less remarkable ones too...like any other form/style of poetry.
For me...DP is not my style...but as long as the piece has feeling...emotion...and meaning...I'll read it
Thanks for sharing...I learned alot
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Thank you for writing this! I was confused on what dirty pretty was, and why on all the contests it said ''No dirty pretty!'' But actually I've seen that before, I just didn't know that's what it was called... I'm not too keen on it but sometimes there are poems like that, that really catch my eye
Thanks for clearing up some confusion here! =D -
i really dont care--if the poetry is good then its good it doesnt matter how its written--ive found a few dirty pretty pieces that i love--my personal requirement for good poetry is if it can make me feel something, whether i can relate to it or not
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cool. i saw this is my radiohead cd lyrics booky thingy lol for 'ok computer'
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Thank you for this column. I was confused when I saw on all of the contests "No Dirty Pretty", because I didn't know what it was at all, so thank you for the info!
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thank you for writing this column, i think that it has cleared up a lot of confusion here on AP.
i personally think that "dirty pretty" has gotten way out of hand. myself and a few other people from AP have written in this style more than a year ago. back then i called it glitter. it was basically poetry that had visual art to it. i wrote like that because i got bored with just plain looking poetry.
it is a shame that some people who write in this new, disgusting style call themselves poets.
as another person said, if the person is a good poet, than the poem will be good.
*end rant*
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Dirty Pretty poetry is really just an adolescent form based off of e.e. cummings style of writing. He was one of the first, and probably one of the most well known, who ever thought to illustrate a poem. I'm sorry, but I find Dirty Pretty poetry to be just another excuse to make a bad poem look nice.
Key word: look.
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i knew what this kind of poetry was, but i didn't know it was CALLED dirty pretty and I didn't know what it was either. now I know and now I can say that dirty pretty bugs me to death. thanks for the info.
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I went through a phase of writing like this a few years ago (before it was labeled dirty pretty,) I cringe now when I read that poetry.
It is only a personal preference, but I think it's cluttered/overkill, and if someone was to read these poems out loud, all those symbols would be useless. -
Matt,
Where can I find some Dirty Pretty poetry? Preferably some better examples.
Jim -
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I held a contest once
http://allpoetry.com/contest/2367782
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What makes it garbage?
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You forgot to mention that it's garbage.
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I agree with Charlotte
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Ah, that makes more sense...but I still don't like it!
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I agree
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I'm not sure I've experienced Dirty Poety, however, in general I tend to defend new approaches to any art. Any form of poetry can be abused or done poorly. Unfortunately there are those who may take a new form and adopt it because they can't write other forms. An exapmle is the work of e.e. cummings. His style incorporates either no or little punctuation and no caps, as the traditonal printing of his name indicates. I can't know the mind of a poet, but at times cummings imitators seem to write as they do because they can't punctuate and thereby overcome this shortcoming.
I don't write in some forms of poetry, such as concrete poetry, because I am less interested in the visual aspects of a poem than the audio. I've tried other forms and may some day research and try Dirty Poetry, but I usually move to more traditional forms that lend themselves to readings. In my opinion it's like choosing between painting and sculpture.
The poetry world is filled with elitists. Many try to dictate what poetry is but in trying to define they limit and restrict. If your child brings home a poem: "I love my cat/ and that is that./ It is my pet/ the best one yet./ I love my mom and dad/ the best ones can be had." is it great poetry? Would you submit it for publication? No. But it is indeed a poem and possibly moved you more than Eliot, Poe, or Dickinson.
Now, it's fine to say, "That is not my preference." We are all entitled to our own taste, but I would encourage anyone from dismissing anything as not being poetry. This is a way to stifle creativity and change. Let the seed be planted and see what grows. You always can look at your garden if the neighbors isn't to your liking.
Just my opinion.
Jim -
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that's a good link
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Dirrty+Pretty+
also that one with a different spelling -
Thanks, I thought so.
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Thanks for the in-depth description I had no idea what DP was att all lol
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I'm glad I clicked on this, and now have some idea of what DP is. Good to see innovation, boundaries are there to be pushed. But sublime and exquisite? I think the jury's still out on that. But, as a master glass-cutter myself, I found I identified more with the DP poem illustrating the concept than with what LarryATilander did with it. To me that means that the DP poem was better able to describe the feeling of cutting glass, and prompt recognition of the creative impulse as it lives.
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Thank You
I watched a few videos and read some how to articles
plus me sister used to cut glass
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Applauding a Valiant Attempt-
Overall, I'd say you've done a fair job explaining a genre to those who consider themselves too old or too young to understand this supposed-nonsense.
But, as for giving true insight to what it really is, you have done nothing.
There is little one can do to instruct Dirty.Pretty. It is no strict form with rules or even guidelines.
As you cannot tell someone what is art and what is not, you cannot inform one as to what is Dirty.Pretty and what is not.
True fact: There is very shitty Dirty.Pretty out there. I will not argue that. But, just because it is no good doesn't mean it isn't what it is.
Dirty.Pretty is a choice, unspoken or unrealized as it may be. It is free writing of creative origin. There is no mistake; only opinion.
An artist may create anything and call it Dirty.Pretty. They could be a painter, an author, a poet.
When it comes to Dirty.Pretty, the most important choice would have to be that of judgement upon it. Will you condemn another's creation because it fails to make sense to you- regardless of the movement in another's soul?
-Allura -
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Will you condemn another's creation because it fails to make sense to you- regardless of the movement in another's soul?
I'd move on to something I can understand -
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I didn't mean you, doll.
You're doing a commendable thing trying to explain what is misunderstood to those who don't understand.
Many, many people have given up on and over-all shut themselves off to Dirty.Pretty simply because they don't understand it.
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I think that this is one style of DP.
I believe it is more than excessive punctuation and abstract spacing, but this a relatively apt description if you are looking at certain factors and not others.
I'm sure it will help a lot of poets.
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What do you think of my comment?
A curiousity towards your opinion. -
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I like the way you've explained it.
I guess if you wanted a crash course in the purpose to DP you could say that is it about being able to write on any subject and still make it achingly beautiful with sometimes painful undertones (that is, when it's written well). I suppose it's about emotion, and showing that to it's fullest extent.
I wouldn't say I completely agree with your statement; "An artist may create anything and call it Dirty.Pretty. They could be a painter, an author, a poet.". Simply for the fact that just because something is over punctuated and full of words like "catastrophe" and "glitter" does not make it DP. But on the fliside I do understand what your saying and agree with part of it; DP is not limited to poetry.
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I don't know, in some ways I think that's left to the individual.
My opinion of something you've described is that it is misguided Dirty.Pretty.
But furthermore I mean that, it is left to the original writer- who probably knows they want attention, and on some level have failed themselves on creating something beautiful, and have instead spouted something fake. -
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and have instead spouted something fake.
fake is not a fair word
clunky or smudge would be fine -
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You're right, it is too strong, though your options would not be my first choice.
I would have chosen a better word had I not been trying to refocus my attention on something else.
But while I'm stuck here- I may as well ask what your opinion is about things said in my little chat with Friday?
Do you believe what's said to be the real truth of Dirty.Pretty?
It seems in all[most] of your comments on this column you address only simple aspects of a comment, not the entire thing.
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Ah now I get you
I think that point needed a bit more expanding to be understood fully.
All this aside, most people do not want to go into so much depth for a style (whether they call themselves poets or not the human race is ultimately lazy). So for all we can tell them it is more than punctuation and "pretty" words, that's all they'll see because to look beyond that is to admit they're out of their depth. -
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saying dirty pretty is deeper
doesn't tell me what it is -
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Too true.
"I guess if you wanted a crash course in the purpose to DP you could say that is it about being able to write on any subject and still make it achingly beautiful with sometimes painful undertones (that is, when it's written well)." (I wrote that further up in the conversation).
It's a bit like watching your home go up in flames on a freezing night, and for all you're despairing over the loss of everything you hold dear (people not necessarily included), you can't help but treasure the heat.
Does that make any sense to you? (explanations aren't my strong point.) -
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yes, I agree
well said
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You're probably right.
I was getting a bit distracted by that point. Teehee.
Very nice.
I am pleased to see how much I am in agreement with you on this matter.
I often wondered.
I get irritated when people only say, "It's not just punctuation- blah, blah, blah," not because they're wrong but because most who thought it WAS just punctuation are just rolling their eyes, and as you said; no one's looking beyond that.
If that made sense. >_>
Once again, getting distracted.
Allura
<3
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As you've asked:
I fail to see your meter or rhyme or any sense in your use of punctuation. I really don't have time to point out all the mistakes in your illustration. I'm sure the spelling and grammar checker in Microsoft Word can.
With all that fixed we see there are three sentences to your piece. The rhyme and meter are not obvious yet. It just looks like prose with illogical line breaks, as I said.
I’m the glasscutter.
With a diamond wheel gliding in oil
a single stroke
opens a fissure.
I gently tap beside the line,
deepening the groove
until with a twist of the wrists
I separate
the glass as planned.
Perhaps you intended to write something like this and got confused.
I am the master glasscutter.
A diamond wheel in oil like butter.
One single stroke will make a line;
A fissure that will snap just fine.
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Larry, are you under the impression that poetry has to rhyme?
"One single stroke will make a line..." Thank you, Captain Obvious.
This is why I hate rhyme. Matt's "a single stroke/opens a fissure" is carefully worded and more pleasing to the eye and ear than a forced rhyme.
There are VERY FEW poets that can rhyme well without resorting to forced rhyme and a certain degree of cliche.
Which is why most should stay far, far away from it. -
I fail to see your meter or rhyme or any sense in your use of punctuation. I really don't have time to point out all the mistakes in your illustration. I'm sure the spelling and grammar checker in Microsoft Word can.
subjects are segregated to lines as are phrases and actions
this allows easy digestion of each part
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you make it seem less trashy and stereotypical than most "dirty pretty" writers on here.
lovely. -
hm always wondered what this was. Someone told me it was about unconventional themes involving very bad topics, so I am glad you clarified it. Is this something new? I do not see it in my poetry enclopedia.
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playing with type setting is nothing new
adding letters used to fill space on a printing press block
which is why ye ol’ print might read "Shoppee"
e. e. cummings used this structure and parentheses
the access to the key board as an instrument has become much wider in the past two decades
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Although this is creative, I don't know if I would fully agree with your description. I write a lot of things that fall under the category of DP, but i don't use it the way you did or for most of the reasons you listed. I have seen many styles of DP on here and from my experience a true poet knows how to use it. A lot of "others" just use it as clutter and tend to leave me walking away thinking okay thanks for expressing you cut//cut//s_l_a_s_h perception. I'm a fan, but only used correctly. At least you are trying to explain it so people can except a style that is growing so fast.
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Thank You for addition
I believe these structures can be used for a varity of reason
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Very nicely written. I like that you have observed and considered this topic and studied beyond those impression before writing your column.
~Genie~
(JM Kenyon- AllPoetry.com Dean) -
Grrrrrr
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howl
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*cue full moon*
"owwwwwwwwwww"
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Wow, now I actually understand what dirty pretty is. I've seen a few poems like that and it was hard for me to read. I think it will still be hard to read, but at least I know what it is. Thanks for the column Matt. Was very helpful.
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Wow this is really helpful, I have been trying to find out what Dirty Pretty was for a while when I saw that on a contest it said no Dirty Pretty. I was afraid that it was something I would do and get dq'ed and not know that I did it because I had no idea what it was...but this has really enlightened me a whole lot...I have no idea how to write one and would like to learn how, but at least I know what IT is...thank you for this...you are very kind.
x from the ashes x
PS - if you ever have time, do you think you could help me write one? -
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write one and I'll tell you what I think works
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I've seen quite a bit of DP here on AP, read a fair few of them as well ... however I have to say that the majority, not all, are pretty bad. There are perhaps half a dozen, that I have read, who can pull this off and make it read well, untill I read those poets I have to admit to being one of the people who thought DP was crap ... I was wrong, in the right hands (and mnds) it can be an extremley beautiful way to write.
Thanks for the column, interesting reading.
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I second that motion. Whilst this is instructive on what it is, it doesn't help those that use it, use it in a non-cliché and otherwise poor manner.
But occasionally it can be used well.
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I honestly had no idea what dirty pretty was before I read this! Thanks for teaching me something new. I found it very informative.
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honestly i think there's two differant worlds of DP.
this one is possibly a mature look at it but i think the whole dashes and &&'s are overly used.. in my way dirty pretty is playing with words not decorating words.
it's more like using everyday objects and giving them life through other emotions and putting things together that you wouldn't normally put together.
for example: girl vein, bone-china hair, poppies on the brow.
being creative... doesnt mean you have to put shit words that are simple with a shit load of **--//##@@@~~!!
anyway.. thats just the way i see it, and most of these little girls talk about whores and cocaine and street life when they have probably never seen a bum in their whole little prissy lives.
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Dirty Pretty tends toward surealism in it's descriptions
Thank You for your addition
I'd preffer that the subcatogory of prissy girls
not be treated as some other group that might be despised
often people write about experiences outside of the life they live
I've never broken soil with a plow
but I have written about it -
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Mona Collapses so Tim must carry her
[Mona's view]
the sun tilting in my eyes
I've expended all my energy
Mister, I have forgot your name
Mona lay down among the roots.
Tim knelt the cradle her head.
"I'm falling asleep ...
...I can go no further"
"I will carry you instead."
Tim lifted Mona
‘neath knees and shoulders
she rested her head upon his chest
grabbing a lock that dangled before her
she pulled Tim's ear and whispered
"the moss grows on the north side"
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I thought it was very good and gave a good example
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I had no idea DP. was an art form. Must attempt it myself, using your guidelines.
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if you do
let me see your work
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I have asked a dozen people what dirty pretty is
and they haven't been able to tell me. After reading this I still don't know. You have written a few sentences with illogical line breaks and some meaningless punctuation marks. This is just scribbling. -
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how are my line breaks illogical?
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