I was asked to write an entry about publishing in an group I’m part of. So, here I am. The tough part about writing this is I don't know where to begin.
These are guidelines based on my experience as an editor and with the publishing 'world'. This is probably going to get long- so you've been warned.
There are A LOT of rules when it comes to publishing. So many that it's very easy to get discouraged.
The absolute most important rule of all is: KNOW YOUR MARKET. I'm sure you've all heard this or read this before. Know your market doesn't mean look at a "Poet's Market" and read the short summaries of what the magazine is about. It means you actually need to READ the magazine you're thinking of submitting to.
Don't submit a poem about the death of your mother to an animal magazine. You're wasting their time and yours.
In this day and age, the overwhelming majority of publications have websites that you can look at. (Which saves you a lot of money). Go read their featured poetry- get a feel for what they publish. If they publish romance short stories-, don't submit your horror story. No matter how good your story is, if it's not what they're looking for, they won't publish it. Period.
Before you get to the point where you start sending your work out there are many things to consider.
For instance-, are you any good? Your friends and family don't count. If your friends and family say, "Oh honey, this is wonderful and should be in a book!" chances are it shouldn't and it's not. I know this is harsh, but it's true.
If you're in high school- take your writing to your English instructor. If you're in college, take your writing to your English Professor. (NOT YOUR CREATIVE WRITING INSTRUCTOR!!!!) If you're not in school, Google writing groups in your area and hook up w. local people to get honest critique. You NEED critique before you start submitting. It makes you a better writer.
So let's say you've done that. You've gone through lots of painful revision and even more painful critique and you think you've got a pretty good poem. Good enough to get published.
Starting looking through your copy of "Poet's Market" or "A Writer's Market/Handbook" and see where it might fit.
You've found a few different places that you think it would work. Now what?
Now put your poem in a drawer and forget about it for a month.
I know how it sounds. I also know, as a writer, how hard it is to do that. TRUST ME- you will benefit from it. Sit on it. Give it some time. Then go back to it.
Look at it from a fresh perspective. Notice that place where you forgot a comma? Fix it. Inverted letters and maybe a misspelled word? Fix it. (Grammar check doesn't catch much).
I don't care what anyone says about 'poetic license' when it comes to writing- you HAVE to know your grammar rules or you will be rejected.
When I get a poem across my inbox that looks like this:
the day wuz bright and
shiny and new and
fresh; and long and blach and blah!
AND maybe even blahly-
blah, bloh BLah!
I don't even read it. I skim everything before I read it and look for simple errors. If there are more than one-, it goes in the trash pile.
Messed up? Yes. Honest? Yep! I edit for a SMALL print publication and I read an average of 25 submissions a day. Not that many in comparison to Literary Journals or big name publications. On top of those submissions, I run my own website, have a full time job, and am a single parent. (And I frequent this website WAY more often than I'm willing to fess up too, even to myself). I don't have TIME to read through crap that looks like it was written by a five year old.
Yes, I am probably missing some good poetry by doing this. I would rather skip one good piece than read through 50 bad ones to find the diamond in the rough.
If I am doing this for a small publication, imagine what the editors at the New Yorker are doing.
Presentation is IMPORTANT! If you are submitting and the guidelines read, " No more than 3-5 poems, name and contact info in top left of each page, SASE, brief cover letter" you'd better follow that.
3-5 poems. If you only have one poem that you feel is worth submitting out of the last 50 you've written- you're not ready yet. Sorry. Don't send one. Don't send 6 because you simply couldn't decide. Best bet? Send 4.
If you're submitting online and it asks for name and contact info on top left of each page- you need to put it on the top left of each page.
SASE? If you do not include a self-addressed, stamped envelope when it is required, your work will get thrown in the trash, unread- and you won't even get the courtesy of a rejection letter.
Brief cover letter- Send a 50 word bio. If you can't sum yourself up in 50 words, don't submit to that place.
There are two parts to requirements like this. One, you're making the editor's job easier. You want to do that. They are the people who will ultimately decide if you'll be published or not. Make them happy.
All of the submissions I read come online. I don't require a SASE and I don't require full contact info. I do require, under the poem title, name and email address. If someone submits three poems and the info is only under the first poem, they are rejected.
The second part is it gives the editor a very, very brief insight into the kind of writer you are. You submit 3 poems and only put required info on one, chances are you didn't read the guidelines for this publication and are submitting blind.
BLIND SUBMISSION IS BAD! We very rarely publish rhyming poems. So rarely that we ask for a query first. We want an idea of HOW you rhyme before we'll even let you submit. If you send three poems that rhyme and I don't have your name in the 'query' box- you're rejected.
Be aware of whom you're submitting to and what they require. It can be your saving grace.
There is A LOT more on this subject, but I realize this is getting long so I'll touch on one more thing and then maybe to a separate post for other things.
On rejections-
There are MANY ways to look at rejections. One of the people in our group here said she plans to poster her room in rejection slips. That is a healthy attitude to have.
I've been published ONCE in the magazine that I am the poetry editor for. The general editor has been rejecting my work long before I became poetry editor. To me, it's funny.
If you get a form rejection letter- toss it. Don't use it to poster your walls. If it's a form letter- chances are your piece was skimmed over and tossed out.
If you get a form letter with personal notes- save it. Occasionally, I will reject something and send a separate email. "Dear Jane, I'm sure you received the rejection notice for our publication. I think your work has potential. This is why I rejected it... " Then I'll go through and give a thorough critique. This almost NEVER happens in the world of publishing, which is part of why I do it.
I'm a writer first and foremost and I still get rejected when I submit. No matter how tough your skin is (and it HAS to be) it still hurts a little. I try to give writers something to hope for, if there is hope for their work.
Take rejections w. a grain of salt, unless there is a personal note attached with it.
I hope this rambling helped.
If I'm asked, I'll write another post that elaborates more and talks about things I didn't mention here.
I was asked to write an entry about publishing in an group I’m part of. So, here I am. The tough part about writing this is I don't know where to begin.
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You're not special here. I read through this, till it bored me (of course) and it's riddled with grammar issues and spelling mistakes etc., you really need to reread this and correct those errors.
I'd point them out but I think that'd negate you doing this for yourself so you can feel special. You need to feel special. Don't be lame. Be special.
I'm special, you know?
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Awesome!
Hey! That's a very helpful column you've posted, and each word grabbed me in place. So really, I wouldn't have minded if it were any longer.
I look forward to your future helpful insight on the 'publication world'.
Thanks loads!!
bless ya!
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excellent
Very much information gather on this I hope I got all the information in this column. I may have to look back at this column in the future. I have written some poetry and got publish but I hope I can learn the craft on publishing too. -
good
Very good and very informative to me. I hope I can apply these priciples to my writing. I really want to write and I hope that I can remember this for the future. -
this is so useful.
i want to get published. i know im not good enough yet. so i am trying to learn as much as i can and take as much help and advice as possible,
this was extremely useful.
thankyou so much
jess -
That's my secret.
Wasn't gonna tell everyone that the real trick is that exactly. Folks, if you wanna get published you must do as I do:
Write, get drunk, submit, and then forget what you did. The cool thing about it is when you are rejected it doesn't matter because you don't even remember writing the piece to begin with. And when you get accepted- it's even better- for the same reasons.
Thanks Danna. -
Now, you forgot to mention the old stand-by method of submitting, Tiffany; get drunk some night and send submissions to publications you won't even remember in the morning.
Very well thought-out column, Tiffany. I hope people appreciate all the time you put into this. -
Excellent
This is really helpful to me too. I've already taken one of your advices. I've just submitted 5 poems to a local magazine, and I thought about following up on that next month. I know that I am not the only writer that they are reading.
Another thing that was mentioned was the drafts. I have a favorite poem that I have posted here about my frustrations of grammar, but I do tend to change a line or more (Lately it's been more).
My problem is the lack of critiquing on this site. I've joined this site because I want my poems critiqued diplomatically. I did get good feedback on some poems. I've only gotten two critiques were the reader was totally confused. But I still have poems that have yet to be read. -
I guess I am lucky, I don't get rejection letters for my poetry, I have had two books published, and a third that I just recently sent to my agent. I am currently working on a fourth. You can find "Purple Skies" my latest book on BN.com, Amazon.com, can order at your local Barnes & Noble or Borders stores. Get a copy , you will love it. Thanks
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Shorter than i thought it would be, and it kept my attention all the way through! thanks so much for the insights from your field!
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I must say a heartfelt thank you for this! I had quite a lot of rejections till the 3 acceptances came!
My query to you is this:
(I still can't believe that I got published so I have to ask) One of my acceptances came from a literature jouranl. If the journal that published me was an online non-profit journal, does it still count as being published?
Thanks in advance!
Marissa.
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THANK YOU, and yes, i meant to shout - thank you
blessings and best wishes, ~richard
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Hi, this is really helpful especially since I'm thinking of submitting to a local magazine here. But I do have a question, on the entry form they tell you to make a cover letter with certain things. I get that, but when it says "no names on poems" does that mean no titles either? I was just curious, and seeing as how you are an editor I thought you would know. I'd ask them, but it doesn't give a number to call if you have questions.
Anyway, this was really good to read for me. Because I do want to be published. I've printed it, and will use it for future references. Oh, another question, is this just the publishing way for poems. Or should you do these steps when attempting to publish a book?
Thanks for sharing,
Leah -
My mom and dad are both writers. My dad works for a publishing company and is one of those people who gets the book proposals and has to sort through them all. Plus other people in my family are writers and publishers so ya... I come from a long generation of writers (ironically none write poetry, though) Thanks for sharing this! Great job!
--Tim -
thank you for taking the time to write this and sharing your knowledge with us I for one am very grateful. thanks again
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good work
While I've never considered publishing, I know a lot of people who have and a lot of people who get rejected and don't know why. I'll be sure to send this very informative article onto them and see if it changes their luck. Thanks for taking the time to do this and giving us all a little insight onto the world of publishing
~Zeek -
Very informative, and couldn't have come at a better time, as I'm considering many different magazines, that I have now subscribed too..
Someone told me I'd never make any money at poetry, who knew that I would end up spending money on it though!
But I agree, get to know you're intended audience. It's just like a job interview, you wouldn't apply somewhere without knowing what's expected of you!
Great column! Thank you so much for taking the time to write this, I really appreciated your honesty, and tact!
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I find too many revisions ruin the piece. When I write, I already have some sort of plan of action so I don't have so much vomit to clean up as you put it. Obviously, you aren't going to get it right on your first draft, unless you are a genius. I find too much technicality ruins creativity. You start to nick pick everything that's why I don't edit my own work.
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Thanks for taking the time and trying to help those on AP learn more about publishing our work. I am curious why rhyming poetry seems to be less essential in writing than it had been in the past.
Jim
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its a great job... ur writing id definately gonna help me
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THis was very helpful... i have a couple of questions though..
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Thank you, this was very helpful! I do have a question or two, though. How would I go about writing a short bio? What do they want written in it?
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Don't you mean "If there *IS* more than one-, *this* goes in the trash pile"? I, um, do.
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Honest answers may often be flawed...but are always the best ones anyway.
There's still enough preacher left in me after all these years that, often enough, I ask the questions as much for you to hear your answer as for me to, you know. And you're right in one respect...it's easier to write good rhyming poetry than good free-verse.
I fear, though, that you're wrong in the other part, because in these last years, the popularity of free-verse and its apparent ease have ensured that, really, more people start there...and stop there. It's now the way of "poetry" that anything the author calls a poem must be considered to be one; this is sad, to me, because no longer can we say that a poem is, by definition, poetry.
Give me a truly well-written villanelle any day.
Thanks for the honesty, and the answer.
Edited on May 16 because 'I'm old, it's late and my typo-gremlin is more alert than I am.'. -
Thanks. I found this very helpful in the fact that I had recently began to consider publishing. I had contacted several publications that I found on various sites and only one contacted me but didn't tell me anything about the process. So again thanks for the insight.
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Sarenahind- your question gave me an idea for another article.
Revision is almost always essential to writing. To quote Hemingway, "The first draft of anything is shit." It takes most people a LONG time to find their voice in writing. Revision helps make the voice stronger, not weaker. Revision makes the piece stronger.
Usually when I write- it is frantic. I type 70 words a minute and it's not fast enough to keep up w. my brain when I write- especially if I'm working on a story. If it's a poem- I get lost in the emotion or thought or image I'm trying to convey and I write down everything that comes to mind so I don't lose anything.
Revision refines the vomit I've splattered on the page (or screen) and enables the voice to shine through w.out overshadowing the message.
It just takes practice- like anything else. -
Dericlee- my prejudice w. rhyme goes way back. I think most people who write start out rhyming. It's easy. I do appreciate the style when it's done well. That is the problem- it's the easier thing to start doing, but one of the hardest to do WELL.
I'm thinking of Anne Sexton's poem, "Unknown Girl in a Maternity Ward". That piece is brilliant and it rhymes. There is nothing sing-songy in her end rhyme because of the way she uses punctuation.
It's not fair to hold all rhyming poetry to that level of expectation and I know that. But, I'm human, and as a reader, it's hard not to do that sometimes. I expect MUCH more from a poem that rhymes. I expect more command of language, tone, grammar, etc., because so much of rhyme is sing-songy and it's hard to take seriously. It's also very easy to get lost in the rhythm of a sing-songy piece and miss the message because a reader's mind will automatically look for the next rhyme.
It's easier for me, while reading through submissions, to require a query first- it saves a lot of time reading stuff like:
Last night I fell in love,
and my tears fell like rain,
while the angels from above,
brought comfort to my pain.
I'm sure my argument and prejiduce is flawed. But, it's an honest answer and the best I can do.
Thanks for reading.
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In the interest of brevity, I would like to tell you that
"Now put your poem in a drawer and forget about it for a month."
is the single best piece of advice I have ever seen in a column such as you have written. I would also like to say that your piece was not only informative, but quite interesting and fun to read. I think that is important when approaching such a touchy subject(meaning, nearly every poet I have ever known is/was excessively touchy when it comes to publishing). Thank you for your obviously huge effort and your willingness to say all of this that must be said. Best regards, Toni
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very helpful
Dear NoUseForAName
I found your article very informative. I have never published a poem becaue I would not know where to start. I know the Internet is wonderful, but it is difficult to know all the methods and the 'how' to do things. I think I am a coward when it comes to all this. I would love to write one poem in a book and maybe I will one day. Thank you for your article. The only question I would have is : why no rhyme? I am also hesitant to judge my own work because, as you write, people are nice and say nice things.
I hope you continue by writing more about this informative subject.Thank you...Richard -
Your information was very helpful, even though I don't plan on publishing my poetry any time soon, if ever.
Thank you for the time you put into the tips! I'll be sure to pass them on to friends I know who are interested in this subject...
Kate
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I have to ask this question whenever I run into this particular prejudice (and sorry...until someone gives me a better answer than "we just don't like it" or "popular opinion" or some such, I will continue to consider it a prejudice).
Why, exactly, are you prejudiced against rhyming verse? -
So how do you make the changes without losing your writing "voice"?
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You didn't discredit me. If I think the piece has potential, I say so, and then I critiqiue. It's the same thing as saying, "This would be really good if you changed this and this and this."
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Rx: Thine own medicine
The Cow
The cow eats grass, mows the lawn,
The whole day through:
And with this grass she makes milk,
Milk for me and you.
Where do I sign up!!
John-Las Vegas, Nevada -
very helpful.
I appreicate you putting this out. It is helpful even to those who have already had small publishings. I would like to comment on one thing you said. You said you sometimes write a critique of the person's writing. Speaking from a writer's point of view, I hate the word potential. "Your writing has potential" really doesn't tell me anything. I don't find it helpful. Unless the editor elaborates and explains, potential means nothing to me. I go on sites like these so I can get honest comments and reviews. Many of my poems are good. People have said so and they aren't just my friends and family. A whole bunch of people I don't know have said my writing is good. I am not trying to discredit you. I am just giving an honest opinion of your presentation. I will even give you an applaud. -
This is chock full 'o great information! I like to entertain the idea that one of these days I will feel like I can go through this process, and submit work, but not likely to happen anytime soon. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, and I shall look forward to the next posting. Pennye
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Good god- ya windbag.
I am like that (quick to judge/quick to toss aside) a lot of the time because most of the stuff submitted isn't ready to be published. But, I also try to give encouragement when I can. Most of the stuff submitted just isn't... good.
There is a note w. our Submission Guidelines that says, "If the punctuation/spelling/spacing is off-kilter on purpose, please let us know so that we don't assume it an error."
My reasoning is if the writer doesn't take the time to present his/her work in the best possible way, (i.e. fixing mistakes)why the hell should I take the time to read it? Or critique it?
I'm not that harsh on my website when I put stuff up- because it's not a publication. (yet!)
As for the critique- I agree wholeheartedly- and probably could have been more articulate w. that part.
Critique is NEVER about the author. It's about the writing. When I do it for the magazine, I refer to the 'narrator'- not the author. It's hard not to take critique personal, even when it's done well. Anyone who critiques the author shouldn't be critiquing. It's not about the person who wrote it, it's about the words. Always.
Poetry is not a dead language, it's just hibernating. Occasionally we catch glimpses of it, like the Loch Ness Monster. I have faith, I have to.
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The high school bit where you say take it to your english teacher, yeah, I did that (12 years ago) and he told me "good job". Yeah, that doesn't always work.
You know how I learned how I didn't write good back in the day? Two ways. I was at this bonfire, drunk as hell, and the "host" asked to hear one of my poems and I read one DRUNK AS HELL and she told me to stop reading 'cause I was making her ears bleed. That was the first, the second was for a "teacher" (she wasn't one, she was a lady who sat at a desk and made sure we didn't fuck around, tho we did that anyway) and she told me for the "epic" I wrote (at that time it wasn't an epic) that I still to this day dislike and will burn every copy I can find when I get a chance but she told me "I don't get it", she told me that 3 times before I wrote it long enough to where she said she then "got it".
After that, not so much. There was this one member here back in 2001/2002 named Tayloka, she didn't critique my work she critiqued "me". I asked her politely so many times to critique my work and not me and she said that critiquing me was going to help me improve my poetry -- she thought wrong, and I then started writing poems (which even then at this website was against the rules) telling her in what a lot of people said were "beautiful" poems but telling her in some sort of "code" in the poem that she was a bitch and this and that and the other etc., and then she IM'd me and said she got it and left.
Perhaps she's been back, under a different name since, I don't know. But that's one thing I don't like is someone critiquing me, critique my work all the fuck you want but leave me out of it.
Trashing your own work before the editor can is harder than the editor sending you your piece back.
I am very particular on who I publish with ('less it's a book then I do it myself that way I have free reign) and I ceased publishing under my real name in 2002. And no, not "Nam" or variations. But even today it's quite rare. Maybe someday I'll post an book of those poems -- most likely not.
You give some good advice here and for the most part you speak the truth but I disagree with the whole lot of it. I understand editors and magazines and newspapers get a shitload of submissions from "poets" or those striving to be one, and I wouldn't want them to be like poetry.com who accepts everyone (if you pay them) no matter what but I disagree with the whole process.
This is why I like websites like "lulu", 'cause then you can create an atmosphere, help others improve without just dismissing them 'cause they have punctuation errors (I have many and I just took a test today where I scored 100% on punctuation, reading, spelling, comprehension, language etc.,) or they have radical spacing (such as me) etc., I would actually read the poem, "edit" it for them when it concerned punctuation and the lot, 'cause why have the title if you don't actually use it? Too many publishers want the "writer" to have everything perfect beforehand so all they ahve to do is perhaps read it and that's it. Perhaps you're not like that (of course reading your article above it seems you somewhat are) .. websites like this don't help people, they praise people, they "entertain" to quote cvillelisa, there's no learning in a place like this and those who actually do wish to "Teach" something are dismissed for it, and those who say they want to learn usually dismiss those who are willing to teach them.
Poetry, is a dead language. We are all drones of its guise.
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this is really a great column--it gives a lot of good information. thank you!
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This sounds interesting. There are some things that seem obvious that you said here and others I would have never thought of. Thanks for sharing.
~Diana -
This is a very helpful column. Thanks for sharing it with us.
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I found this really helpful. I've been talking with people and so far this is the most I've found on the subject of trying to get published. Thanks for the info.
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Thanks very much for this. Always handy to know. Thanks for the effort you put in
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I was tryna read this because it looks like it'll be real helpful.. But I don't know what it says. Tha words are way to bright. Could you switch tha color. Thanks.
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As one who would like to see my work in print, I found this very helpful. Copied and pasted and thank you so much.
David
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