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Islam - Religion of Peace?

Islamic Extremists - The Nazi's of our generation.

 



(Please read author's comments box below first.)





"Mourn not the dead that in the cool earth lie,
but rather mourn the apathetic,
throng the coward and the weak
who see the world's great anguish and it's wrong,
and dare not speak." 

- Ralph Chaplin




(9/11/01 - The day Islamo-Fascists woke the sleeping giant.)



(Al Quaeda videotaped beheading.)




(Hamas terrorists - the guys who slaughter innocent civilians in malls, nightclubs and buses - holding Korans.)



( Digging up men, women and children murdered by Saddam Hussein, most of which were blindfolded and shot in the head.  The current body count is over 400,000, but the estimated total of executions is 1.2 million.  )

"If Saddam Hussein had not been deposed, the majority of Iraqi's would have ended up in mass graves."
- Latika Padgaonkar, The Pioneer, New Delhi

More on Mass Graves -
www.medyaarts.com/mg_reviews.htm
www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html

Also visit massgraves.info
(I'm proud to report that one of my poems is on that site.  Click on the "poem" link to read it.)



Before you read anything else, read this article (written by an Iranian woman, not a westerner.)

The Silent Holocaust:  Why Humanity Must Achieve Victory Over Islam - by Azam Kamguian
www.secularislam.org/humanrights/silent.htm



Every psychologist tells his patients, "Before your problem can be solved, we must identify what the problem is."  This is also true of problems with nations, communities, and religions.  Problems within religions, however, are engulfed by a larger problem - the total unwillingness by devotees of that religion to rethink what they have been programmed since birth to believe without question.  This is true of all religions.  As a friend on this site so wisely pointed out (see author's comments below), "It's a religion they've believed their entire lives and it has become part of their identity.  If something is wrong in Islam and you highlight it, it feels like you're telling them that a part of their very personhood is wrong."

However, I believe that this issue is important enough to walk through the fire of denial, defensiveness, and blind faith on the part of Muslims.  I did the same thing several months ago when I posted a series of columns on things that confuse me about Christianity.  ("Big Question" series 1-9)  A few Christians got upset because I was questioning their faith, but the vast majority were respectful and understood what I was trying to do - deepen my own understanding and faith, and open the door of communication so that, perhaps, problems could start to be solved, at least in the minds and lives of those people who read the articles and were moved to respond.

If you are a Muslim and you address me respectfully, I will reciprocate.  As you can see from some of the responses to this column, however, that was often not the case.  I understand that this must be a difficult time to be Muslim - fearing Muslim extremists on one side, and fearing racist non-Muslims on the other.  But I am not the enemy.  Believe it or not, my goal in posting this piece was to improve the image of Islam, not help destroy it.  It is being destroyed by Muslim terrorists.  In this column, I am challenging good Muslims to help restore the image of Islam by protesting the extremist minority who are making your lives difficult. 

There are some harsh criticisms below regarding Islam.  I tend to make my points in a very passionate way.  It's just the way I write.  But my goal, again, is to provoke thought and communication, and to urge any Muslims who might read this to confront the extremists who are damaging the image of their faith, and educate them on what Islam is supposed to be about.  If it truly is the "religion of peace", then Muslims who don't support Islamic terrorists or condone their actions need to speak, write, act, and march much more than they are currently.  I am greatly distressed by the lack of outrage on the part of the good Muslims toward terrorism, and every other non-Muslim I know is, too.

I have already been attacked by a few Muslims for posting this column, saying I lump all Muslims together.  I hope you will be able to see that I do not.  When referring to the terrorists who are making all our lives dangerous and difficult (even the lives of good Muslims), every time I use the word "Muslim", I always put the word "extremist" or "fundamentalist" or "fanatical" in front of it.  Yet I am accused of religious intolerance by those determined to label this as such and write me off as anti-Muslim rather than do the uncomfortable meditation that my points require.  I would also criticize a racist or intolerant rant if I saw it, but there is a big difference between questioning facts about a religion and its followers, and blindly hating.

Change is never easy, and that is particularly true in regard to questioning one's lifelong beliefs.  As a result, pride and the desire to "win" the argument overrides rational thinking.  Then we shake our heads and wonder why nothing ever changes in this troubled world. 

My Muslim critics claim that I have no right, as a non-Muslim, to criticize Islam or any Muslims, even the terrorists.  As I expected when I posted this piece, I was dismissed as anti-Muslim.  One person even began to attack Christianity, turning it into a boxing match between Jesus and Mohammed, even though I'm not a Christian and I admit in the article that all religions have had their dark periods.  However, even if I were a Christian, I would still consider atrocities committed by Christians in the distant past to be irrelevant because radical Christians aren't the problem in the world TODAY.  Radical Muslims are.  And when those who should speak (good Muslims) don't, those who shouldn't speak (non-Muslims) must.  Unfortunately, a westerner making well-justified criticisms of Islam is doomed to be perceived as religious intolerance, and certainly would not be considered or meditated upon by a Muslim extremist, which is why it is more important than ever for good Muslims to stand up and be counted.  After all, I'm not the one who needs to be convinced that Islam is the religion of peace, the Muslim extremists are. 

If anyone wants to organize a Muslim march against extremism and terrorism, I will happily join it and fight anyone who tries to stop you.  And if you convince me that any of my points below are wrong, I will gladly edit them.  I wish I was.


To the article -

In the name of being politically correct and to prove how liberal and open-minded they are, many in the west are quick to defend the real cause of the war on terror - Islamic extremism.  They even go as far as blaming all the current troubles with Islamic terrorists on President Bush, even though there were hundreds of attacks BEFORE he was elected, such as the first attack on the Twin Towers, the attacks on the U.S. embassies in Africa and the U.S.S. Cole.  

In their good-hearted attempts to squash anything that resembles religious intolerance, Muslim apologists continously parrot the mantra that Islam is the "religion of peace" and claim that the Qur'an is a good book that has been misinterpreted and distorted by fanatical, fundamentalist Muslims.  This is not entirely true.  By and large, the Koran, like the Bible, is a good book.  Unlike the Bible, however, the Koran has not been sufficiently updated by right-thinking people to meet the human rights requirements of the modern world.  

If no Muslim is able to misinterpret passages of the Koran, why do terrorists always recite prayers to Allah as they are killing innocent civilians or blowing themselves up?   Why do they believe they will be rewarded with 72 virgins for their martyrdom?  I guarantee you - the terrorists at the controls of the planes on 9/11 were screaming "Allah Akbar!!" as the planes hit the towers.  Obviously, their ideology is backed up by their religion, at least in their minds, because they were able to derive from the Koran that it is not only okay but virtuous to kill non-believers.  (Infidels.)

Here are a few examples -

Intolerance in the Koran -

"Slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace, and that they shall have a great punishment in the world hereafter."
Koran 5:34

"O you who believe!  Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends, for they are friends of each other, and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
Koran 5:51


Justification for terrorism in the Koran -

"Remember Allah inspired the angels;  I am with you.  Give firmness to the unbelievers.  I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers; you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them."
Koran 8:12

The Koran has many passages that cast women in a lower light than men.  These passages are then used by fundamentalist Muslims to justify abuse of women, honor killings, etc.  Here are just a few such verses from the Koran itself.

"A wife should never refuse herself to her husband, even it is on the saddle of a camel." 

"Never will a people know success if they confide their affairs to a woman."

"A woman cannot fulfill her duties toward God without first having accomplished those that she owes her husband."


Muslim men consider women who are not virgins to be so filthy and defiled that in the Hadith, it is claimed that in heaven, after sexual intercourse, every woman becomes a virgin again.  It is this kind of thinking that makes fundamentalist Muslims maim and kill their own daughters, sisters or wives when they suspect them of having sex before marriage, of committing adultery, or even of being raped.  There are innumerable reports of men committing "honor killings" against any woman they consider to be "unclean". 

Here is one such story, with photographs for anyone who thinks I'm exaggerating -

www.rozanehmagazine.com/julyaugust02/Mayjune02new/wpakistan.html

There are good Muslims, of course.  That goes without saying.  In fact, the role of the allied forces in Iraq is to help progressive Muslims in the Middle East win their country from the fundamentalists who want to keep them all forever locked in the Dark Ages.

However, the fact that only one of the 47 Muslim-dominated countries of the world are not free indicates that something is wrong not just with these societies, but with the so called "religion of peace" itself.  After all, "the proof is in the pudding".  The important questions are: 

Why are so many Muslims misinterpreting the Koran, assuming it is a flawless book?

Why are 46 of 47 Muslim countries not free? 

Why have their been over 8000 terrorist attacks by Muslim terrorists since 9/11? 

Why are so many horror stories constantly pouring out of the Middle East of savage abuse of women and children? 

We can't blame the war in Iraq for everything.  Muslim terrorists were bombing, kidnapping, torturing, and hijacking long before that.

Every religion has its horror stories and dark periods.  Christians and Catholics have committed atrocities in the name of their religions, too.  I'm not a Christian.  I'm not even religious.  I believe if people don't do it, it doesn't get done.  Bertrand Russell said, "Religion is the dragon at the gate of prosperity in the world."  If we all believed that we were alone on this earth and had only each other to depend on, maybe things would be better.  Instead, religion only gives us one more reason (other than race, nationality, sex, age, social status, etc.) to divide ourselves.  As John Lennon said, without religion, we might be a little closer to becoming a "brotherhood of man" rather than backing our particular religions as if they were football teams, as the most vocal critic of this article did. 

If a western, non-Muslim person (particularly a white male, like myself) breathes one word of criticism about Islam, he is immediately labeled by liberals as an intolerant bigot.  The desire to be perceived as politically correct overrides a sincere search for truth, and a desire to make necessary, positive changes in the world.  To make matters worse, Muslims will immediately start criticizing Christianity and other religions, in total denial of the fact that currently, the biggest problem in the world is not Christianity or Catholicism or Buddhism or Hinduism.  It's Islamic extremism. 

Behind almost every bombing, there is someone screaming "Allah is great!"  The Islamic fascists are the Nazi’s of our age and ignoring them is no longer an option.  The U.S. tried that before and we were attacked anyway.  Why?  Because Islamic terrorist groups did not approve of who we were friends with, and they considered us "infidels" in their holy land, as they do every non-Muslim.  It wouldn't matter if we were there selling cookies.  They would still want us dead.  That's why aide workers are kidnapped and killed just as readily as soldiers and contractors.  That is why Osama Bin Laden offered $5,000.00 to anyone who kills an American, anywhere.

The stated purpose of every terrorist group in the Middle East is to acquire nuclear weapons and turn the west, particularly America, into a “sea of fire”.  I just hope the destruction of one of our major cities won’t be necessary before we wake up and smell the opium.

 

Before a war can be won, or survived, we must know the true face of our enemy.  Most of us don't.  Most of us think that most Muslims in the Middle East are peace-loving, benign people who just want to be left alone.  This belief persists in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, such as bombings around the globe, the desecration of charred bodies of western contractors who went to Iraq to help rebuild their country, the beheading of any westerner unlucky enough to be captured, horrific human rights violations and atrocities throughout the Middle East (mostly against women and children), constant U.S. flag burning and threat-laden protests on the streets of Arab countries, and the conspicuous silence of most of the Muslim world. 

Maybe we've all watched Disney's Aladdin too many times, so we have happy, fantasy images in our mind when we think of the Middle East, instead of the real-life images at the top of this page.  Of course, I'm not referring to the entire Middle East, just the hot spots of entrenched fundamentalist oppression.

So how do the terrorists misinterpret the "Holy Koran"?  It may have something to do with the fact that the Koran advocates killing any "infidel" (non-Muslim) anywhere in the Middle East if he/she won't convert to Islam.  (See passages from the Koran above, highlighted in red.)  There are also many misogynistic passages in the Koran, such as this one -

"If anything presages a bad omen, it is a house, a woman, and a horse."


The Koran also advocates taking girls of any age as brides.  Mohammed himself married a 7 year old girl.  But we should give him a little credit, though, because he waited until she was 9 to consummate the marriage. 

Many people feel that statutory rape laws are unjust, and that girls should be able to have sex as soon as they begin menstruating.  After all, if God didn't want them to have sex at 12 or 13, why would He give them their first egg at that age?  Unless Mohammed's bride started menstruating at 9, which would make her a biological anomaly, his consummation of the marriage was what most people in the modern world would refer to as "child molestation".

Laws are created to legislate morality, and most people think it's wrong for men to marry and have sex with little girls.  Children should be allowed to be children.  If young people want to have sex when their natural curiosity awakens, it should be with other young people who they are attracted to, not someone they don't love, are totally repulsed by, and who they perceive to be an old geezer.

Of course, the reason Islam, Christianity and all other religions are biased toward men is because they were written by men, for men.  Women get the short end of the stick every time.

Again, there are good Muslims, but their overwhelming silence makes them irrelevant, and even suspect.  After all, if you make a claim about your opponent in a debate and he does not deny it, that implies agreement.  When was the last time you saw Muslims marching en masse to protest the actions of radical Muslims?  I haven't.  Not only do most good Muslims do nothing, say nothing, write nothing, and refuse to protest the actions of the fanatics who are giving their religion a bad name, they attack any non-Muslim who does, as I have been attacked under this piece.  This makes non-Muslims very, very nervous.  If good Muslims were doing more to combat bad Muslims, I would not have felt compelled to post this column.

This is my own little way of shedding light on a subject that is not even being discussed throughout most of the Middle East.  In fact, attempts to legislate equal rights for women are almost always roundly rejected by the courts as "Un-Islamic."  Here's another article that proves it -

www.atheism.about.com/b/a/015219.htm

The journalist Azam Kanguian lived under horrific oppression in Iran for most of her life.  She wrote:

"A free discussion of Islam is extremely dangerous, not only in countries under Islamic rule, but also in the west.  Most keep their feelings to themselves.  Those Muslims who disown or even criticize their faith publicly are likely to be accused of apostasy, a crime punishable by death under Islamic law - a penalty enforced by a number of Islamic states, including Iran, Saudi Arabia and Sudan."

By writing this article and suggesting that there may be some room for improvement in the Islamic world, I am apparently putting my life in danger.  I think this issue is important enough to take that risk.  This site is full of very powerful people - writers who can contribute something to this problem today, and young writers who will become the journalists of tomorrow.  There is great power in the written word.  The fact that every religion has its holy book is proof of that.

Here are a few more reasons I felt it was important to post this article.

1.  To do my part to stop the killing in Iraq, most of which is committed by insurgents.  I'm getting tired of hearing people say Americans are butchering Iraqi's.  The Iraqi's have less to fear from our soldiers then they do from the insurgents, and everyone knows it, especially the Iraqi people.

2.  To prevent a nuclear holocaust that will kill millions because Islamic extremists can't control their hatred; hatred which is endorsed by their god in numerous passages in the Koan.  Yes, Christians did terrible things in the past, too, but right now, Muslim extremists are the problem.  Every time a bomb goes off somewhere, there is a Muslim extremist screaming "Allah Akbar!", and yet they accuse the west of waging holy war.  The hypocrisy is staggering.

3.  Because I care about the welfare of women everywhere.  If I could pinpoint one thing that made me write this article more than any other, it is the story at the top of this page about the women whose husband suspected her of adultery.  He woke her in the middle of the night, tied her up, dragged her into the basement, tied her up by her feet, beat her with a board from head to toe, cut her nose off, plucked her eyes out with a heated knife, stuck his fingers into the empty sockets, cut her down and let her fall to the floor, almost breaking her neck, and left her for dead.  But she didn't die.  Her three children discovered her body, blood oozing from the holes where her nose and eyes used to be. 

I wish I could say that story is a rare anomaly in the Middle East, but it isn't.  It's very common.  The only reason we heard about it is because the woman survived to tell the tale.  I don't care what any Muslim says about it, it's wrong.  Many Muslims say American women are cheapened and defiled in our oversexed society, and I would agree with them to some degree, but when a woman commits adultery here, 99% of the time, the worst that happens to her is a divorce.  It's called "civilized behavior". 

So if any terrorists do read this and are too filled with hate to see that I am writing this for humanitarian reasons, if they think I deserve to die for criticizing their culture, be warned - I'm not some 98 pound, female flight attendant.  Cutting my throat won't be so easy.  I'm a black belt and heavily armed.  You don't scare me.


Okay, now that I got that out of the way . . .

To see only a few of the acts Muslims extremists are capable of performing in the name of their God, go to
www.MichaelSavage.com and watch the videos there, but be warned - they are extremely graphic and vomit-inducing. 

Change

Positive change doesn't usually come to pass because of one action by one person, but by many small actions by many people.  It is toward that end that I posted this piece and will continue to fight, through writing and any other way I can, to end abuse of women in the Middle East and anywhere else it exists, and to protect my country from radical Muslim fanatics. 

Please use the links below and do at least as much research as I have, and read/watch the following sources, before starting an argument with me about how virtuous Islam is.


Here’s a clip of what happens to children in Iran if they are caught stealing.  Some say this is a just a clip of a show put on by street gypsies.  I hope that's true, but either way, it's reckless child endangerment that should not be allowed in any civilized country.

 

There have been over 8000 terrorist attacks since 9/11.  For a short list, read this article -

The Truth About Islam – A Former Muslim Speaks
www.islamstrueface.blogspot.com/2005/07/muslim-atrocities.html

 

The Magnitude of Muslim Atrocities -

www.voi.org/books/siii/ch6.htm

More Truth About Islam - 

www.thereligionofpeace.com


Also, google the name Azam Kamguian, a world-renowned Islamic scholar, and read her articles.  Since she lived in Iran and experienced the abuse of being a Muslim woman firsthand, she is my authority on the subject, not some pampered westerner whose idea of suffering is Starbucks running out of cinnamon powder.

I also post this column because some of us in the west, even after the horrors of 9/11, still haven't realized the magnitude of this threat.  Muslim terrorists have declared an all-out war on the west but our desire to feel good about ourselves is causing many to underestimate the depth of their hatred and intolerance, and we are making ourselves vulnerable as a result.

It is not just us the Islamo-fascists want to torture and kill, it is their own people.  Cultures of death have been a fact of life in the Middle East since time began, but now that there are video cameras everywhere, WE have to see it.  Even if we weren't being personally threatened, what are we, the civilized world, supposed to do?  Stand by and watch while members of our human family are raped, tortured and murdered?  Is feeling good about ourselves and basking in a fragile, ignorant peace truly virtuous if we are ignoring evil to do it?

If you still insist on thinking Islam is the religion of peace, I'm sure your heart is in the right place, and your desire to be tolerant toward every religion is commendable, but positive change cannot come about without cold examination of the facts. 

The fact is it is wrong to kill a woman just because she was raped to "restore the family honor".  It is wrong to cut your wife's nose off because she committed adultery.  It's wrong to decapitate your own daughter and carry her head around the village saying, "Look, I restored the family honor" because she had pre-marital sex.   It is wrong to put women in jail to protect them from their husbands, while the husbands who abused them remain free.  I wish I was making these stories up, but I'm not. 

Here are more links about how life is under Islamic law in the darker areas of the Middle East -

The Fate of Infidels and Apostates Under Islam -
www.iheu.org/node/1540

Human Rights of Women in Iraq -
www.iheu.org/node/1306

"Women all over Afghanistan are still being murdered, raped and imprisoned with impunity."  
- Amnesty International

"Many people outside the country believe that Afghan women and girls have had their rights restored.  It's just not true. Women and girls are still being abused, harassed, and threatened all over Afghanistan, often by government troops and officials."

- Zama Coursen-Neff, Co-author of the report and counsel to the Children's Rights Division of Human Rights Watch



My parents are from Belfast, Northern Ireland.  I've visited Belfast many times over the years.  I remember being rushed away from unattended cars and other areas where police suspected a terrorist might have left a bomb.  My relatives in Ireland have lived in fear all their lives of people who handle their grievances by attacking innocent civilians, so perhaps I have a special disgust for terrorists because of that.  But I also have a special insight into that mindset for the same reason.  And another irrefutable fact is that hatred is learned.  I heard a small boy in Ireland ask his father, "Who are those people I'm supposed to hate, daddy?"  That's how it works.  Here's a perfect example.





From
www.littlegreenfootballs.com/webblog/?entry=3346

This little girl in Gaza is taking part in a "graduation exercise" in a kindergarten run by the "Islamic Charitable Association".  The blood on her hands is meant to commemorate the lynching of two Israeli reservists in Ramallah.

Golda Meir said,
"There will be peace when the Arabs love their children as much as they hate others."

Arabs throughout the Middle East are brainwashing and poisoning the minds of their own children in the service of their own hatred and bloodlust.  This is particularly true of Palestinians, where the majority of parents can think of no higher purpose for the lives of their children than making homicide bombers out of them.  (They are usually called suicide bombers but I think homicide bombers is more accurate.)

For more on the intentional mental poisoning and programming of children (yet another form of child abuse in the Middle East), visit - 
www.betar.co.uk/articles/betar1059578683-php

In an interview, a Palestinian child said, "I hope when I get to 14 or 15 to explode myself."  Obviously, any sane mother would discourage her own children from committing suicide for any reason.  On the contrary, this boy's mother smiles proudly and pats her son on the head, eager to help him realize his dream - the dream she and his other hate-filled relatives planted in his eager-to-please, young mind.  His mother even has a toy "suicide bomber" costume in the living room.  She lets her son practice pulling the pin on the grenade while she serves tea to a visitor.


I'm not saying in this article that we should hate or kill anyone.  God knows I don't want to repeat the cycle of hatred and vengeance that has created the crushing fear and despair in many parts of the Middle East.  To assume the opinions expressed here are some racist diatribe or to write them off as religious intolerance would be to make the most elementary assumption possible.  This is not aimed at peaceful, good-hearted, tolerant Muslims.  It's aimed at the Muslims who are using the words of the Koran to justify their own hatred and bloodlust.

It is the responsibility of every person who thinks of him/herself as a humanitarian to protest human rights abuses in this "global village".  We need to make enough noise to hopefully awaken the collective conscience of the Muslim fascists/terrorists/insurgents, assuming it hasn't been completely destroyed by all their seething hatred of the west. 

Hopefully, we will also awaken the conscience of those Muslims who silently condone the actions of Muslim terrorist groups, and make them meditate more deeply on whether or not Islam truly deserves it's self-proclaimed title of the "religion of peace".  But mainly, I hope the good Muslims of the world will rise up against the bad ones, make them stop destroying the image of their religion, and help prove the virtues of Islam to a very worried world. 

After all, it is the responsibility of every humane human being to do something about that which he or she has become aware of.  Though I have grave doubts due to the blindly fanatical mania of fundamentalist Muslims, I hope that someday the accumulative pressure of good people everywhere - Muslim and non-Muslim - will finally break the stranglehold that Islamic extremism has had on its own people, and now the world.

Peace.

Mark





Additional sources -

Afghanistan:  Women Still Not “Liberated”
Police Abuse, Forced Chastity Tests, and Taliban-Era Restrictions in Herat
www.hrw.org/press/2002/12/herat1217.htm


Afghan Women Scarred by “Hidden” Abuse
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3543147.stm


Afghan Women Under the Tyranny of Fundamentalists
www.rawa.org/women.html


Aghan Women Still Suffer Abuse
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4592697.stm

Islam debate video - this woman couldn't have said it better.

www.vidilife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=C58E26FF-DDFE-40AF-85AB-C&ratedFlag=1


I've received a few attacks on this piece by people accusing me of religious intolerance.  After misinterpreted everything I wrote in this article, insulting me in every way she could think of, and engaging in some first-rate Christian-bashing (though I'm not a Christian and it was totally irrelevant), my most vocal critic made these revealing statements:

It's Muslim terrorists who are ruining my life!
Muslim terrorists are the reason people throw trash at me!
Muslim terrorists are the reason I can't get a job!

It was then that I realized her hypersensitive and irrational criticisms had nothing to do with this column.  I was just the skapegoat for all the non-Muslims she felt persecuted by.  One would think this would make her angry toward the terrorists who are giving Muslims a bad name.  No, the white, conservative male got it once again.  (The only safe and acceptable target of intolerance these days.)

Anyway, I would like to share with you a few responses I received from some clearer thinking people here on AP who read this in the same spirit in which it was written . . .

"I'm sorry that they're attacking you.  But it's a religion they've believed in their entire lives and it has become part of their identity. If something is wrong in Islam and you highlight it, it feels like you're telling them that a part of their very personhood is wrong.

Normally, if I find something wrong in myself, I change it. But they've got other people who don't find anything wrong with it to account to as well.  So they're backs are against the wall by this article.

Change can only come when a people realise that something is wrong.  And since that's a bitter pill for most people to swallow, I suppose it's expected that they'd give you hell! lol!

John the Baptist was a voice crying in the wilderness.  Many people were saved because of him.  And many people hated him.  But that doesn't change the value of what he did or how many people he helped.

Jeremiah as well was given hell by people, for telling them what they were doing wrong.  They only realised his worth after he was already dead!

So . . . you are no different, Mark.

Keep on giving righteousness and true virtue a voice.  If you have been wrong about anything so far, you're human and God knows that.  He also knows the nature and state of your heart and that all you have done and said has been geared toward positive change.

I love you for bein you.  You are not alone.  Cheer up.  And pity the people who have yet to reach the point (and who many never reach it) in the journey of growth that you have."


*********************************************************

"This is certainly a well-researched essay, Mark, and I greatly appreciate all of the work that you must have put into it. I read every word, including all of the comments and your replies. I certainly wish there could be peace in this world, that women would be treated as equals of men, that all of the nations and religions could live together in harmony and respect, that people would no longer attempt to force their own will upon others, that everyone could enjoy a good standard of living, without anyone having to live in fear ever again. I hope your words, and the people who read them, can help the world to move in that direction."

~Charles~

*************************************************************

Mark,

I just felt compelled to send you a message after spending the past hour or so trawling through both yours and XpatiencegraceX's columns and every comment on each.  

When I read your column for the first time, I didn't see it as bashing the Muslim faith, but more of an observation, and probably a good rant against, the treatment of women, etc., in some Islamic countries, why perhaps people act that way, why terrorists act, why some Muslims are silent against it, etc.  I never saw it as having a go at anybody's faith.

Yet reading that girl's responses, she seems to have just interpreted you as a Christian, which I've seen you've said you're not, and then she made that column which pointed out all of the sexist comments in the bible, etc.  Yes, it's true they are there, but also the topic of your column was not to do with that - and what she perhaps doesn't realise is that Christians, or most of them, aren't treating 'their' women the same way that some Muslims are.  Sure, in history it happened but you were talking about what is happening today and why it is still happening.

Anyway, I know I made no contribution to anything there, but reading everything just moved me to say I admire, respect and fully believe in what you've said - I think you're very brave and in no way 'ignorant' as some people have said.

Bella

*************************************************************

A must-read -

Where are the Moderate Muslims?

Sunday, March 12, 2006

Once I read that the number of Germans directly involved in the Holocaust — giving orders in Berlin, building the infrastructure of the death camps, rounding up victims, piloting trains, releasing the gas, hunting down escapees and so forth — was 100,000.

In 1939 the population of the Reich was 80 million, so slightly more than one-tenth of 1 percent of the Germans were actually involved in murdering Jews.

Yet, somehow, I never see anyone trying to clear the German volk of the guilt of the crimes of Hitler's "tiny extremist minority." No, the verdict of history is that all Germans share the burden, because all Germans let it happen.

Today, many progressives in the Western world try to explain away crimes committed in the name of Islam. A Google search for the apologetic phrase "tiny extremist minority" turns up 252,000 results. Why is not the passive Muslim majority held to the same standard as the passive German majority?

And just how tiny is this "tiny" minority anyway?

Let's look at what some of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims believe.

In 2003, Nawaf Obaid, a Saudi national security consultant, surveyed 15,000 Saudis. Nearly 50 percent supported Osama bin Laden. Last July the Pew Research Center found that 51 percent of its sample of Pakistanis place confidence in Osama, and 60 percent of Jordanians support him. Is 60 percent a tiny minority?

The Pew Center also found that in Lebanon, support for suicide bombing in defense of Islam is 39 percent of its sample, and in Jordan it's 57 percent. Is 57 percent a tiny minority?

In October 2003, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah found that 75 percent of Palestinians in its sample supported the bombing of the Maxim restaurant in Haifa that killed 23 people, mostly Jews. Is 75 percent a tiny minority?

The London Telegraph reported in February that its ICM poll showed 40 percent of British Muslims in its sample favor applying sharia law in predominantly Muslim areas of the country. Is 40 percent a tiny minority?

In Turkey last year, a publisher issued a new $3.50 edition of "Mein Kampf." Previous editions cost $7. In the first quarter alone, the book sold more than 50,000 copies and reached the best-seller list drawn up by the D&R bookstore chain. Does a No. 5 book represent a tiny minority?

According to the Pew Center, large majorities of Muslims strongly dislike Jews in nations such as Morocco, Indonesia, Pakistan and Turkey. But it's hard to top Lebanon and Jordan, where the unfavorable rate is 99 percent. Who knew 99 percent could be a tiny minority?

A poll carried out by the London Guardian last year said 13 percent of British Muslims in the sample would support another 9-11-style attack on the United States. Another 15 percent were not sure. I wonder: Were these 15 percent really not sure, or did they simply choose to disguise their true feelings from a pollster?

The Muslim Council said the poll showed that the "overwhelming majority" of British Muslims "abhor" terrorism. That would be 72 percent opposing another 9-11, vs. 28 percent willing to consider it. There are more than 1.5 million Muslims in Britain, so 28 percent translates to 420,000 people who might be pleased to see more Americans leap out of blazing towers or definitely would be pleased to see more Americans leap out of blazing towers. I am not reassured.

A YouGov survey carried out for the London Daily Telegraph last July showed that 6 percent of British Muslims in the sample believe the 7-7 bombings were fully justified. Six percent is indeed a minority, but it's not quite a tiny one, and it's still 90,000 people, if the sample is translated to the entire target population.

Another 56 percent of British Muslims in the sample said they can understand why the bombers acted. Eighteen percent feel little or no loyalty to their country. Thirty-two percent believe "Western society is decadent and immoral" and "Muslims should seek to bring it to an end."

Seventy-three percent say they would inform the police if they knew something about a planned terrorist attack. This sounds nice, doesn't it? That "overwhelming majority" again. Until you realize it means that 27 percent of British Muslims would not inform the police of an imminent attack.

Last October a university in the conservative Turkish city of Diyarbakir released a survey on honor killings. It showed that 37 percent of the men and women in its sample believe that if a woman cheats on her husband, she should be killed. Another 21 percent would spare her life and just cut off her nose or ears.

The United Nations says there are 5,000 honor killings every year in the Muslim world. The London Guardian reported in November 2004 on a survey conducted by the Egyptian government that found that one in three women has been beaten by her husband. Eighty-six percent of the women in the sample regarded this as normal.

A large majority of women believe that refusal to have sex with their husband is grounds for a beating. In the survey reported in the London Guardian, 26 percent of women in their 20s responded they believe they deserve a beating if they burn dinner. Forty-two percent believe they deserve a beating if they spend too much money. Sixty-five percent believe they deserve a beating if they talk to another man.

I find these numbers frightening. Well-armed with facts and logic, you might be able to convince me that the "tiny extremist minority" of Islam is indeed a "minority," strictly speaking. But a "tiny" minority? I'm afraid I just don't buy it.


Here's a comment left on a blog by a Muslim in Iran.  It's a perfect glimpse into the mindset I describe here.

"hey you mother fucker you dont understand the concept of ISLAM it is the one true way to becoming free and when you dont know anything about being a muslim dont go aroud the web talking shit you fukin white american mother fuker . yes the iranian population does not like to be called arab because we areant thats as simple as that i would know because im a iranian SHIITE MUSLIM  and im proud to be musllim and i am prepared to die for the sake of ALLAH. the ayotollah khomeini was a great religious leader and had a whole coutry under his palm the fukin gay ass carter administration was scared out of there mind when we took hostages so fuk you.  we will kill you american swine ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR .

hey you fukin american piece of shit when you do not know any thing about ISLAM then dont go on the web talking shit you dont understand that ALLAH is the one true diety and yes of course the iranian poulation (not the persian ) does not like to be called arab because we are not its as simple as that you fukin american bastard and to reply on what you said about the AYOTOLLAH KHOMEINI he was a geat religous leader who had a whole country under his palm he also had the gay ass carter administration scared shitless when he took hostages and about women most people do not understand why they were the higab i dont want to go on and on so tell me something how many women are raped in the muslim world to how many are raped in the rest of the world it is almost zero fukin zionist piece of shit.

IRANIANS WILL KILL AMERICANS  fuk america and fuk you MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD ARE PREPARED TO DIE FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH are you fuk you american swine ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR ALLAH AKBAR!!"

*************************************************************

The main article that led me to write this -



FIVE QUESTIONS NON-MUSLIMS WOULD LIKE ANSWERED
By Dennis Prager

(Dennis Prager's nationally syndicated radio show is heard daily in Los Angeles on KRLA-AM (870). He may be contacted through his website: www.dennisprager.com)

"The rioting in France by primarily Muslim youths and the hotel bombings in Jordan are the latest events to prompt sincere questions that law-abiding Muslims need to answer for Islam's sake, as well as for the sake of worried non-Muslims.

Here are five of them:

(1) Why are you so quiet?

Since the first Israelis were targeted for death by Muslim terrorists blowing themselves up in the name of your religion and Palestinian nationalism, I have been praying to see Muslim demonstrations against these atrocities.  Last week's protests in Jordan against the bombings, while welcome, were a rarity. What I have seen more often is mainstream Muslim spokesmen implicitly defending this terror on the grounds that Israel occupies Palestinian lands. We see torture and murder in the name of Allah, but we see no anti-torture and anti-murder demonstrations in the name of Allah.

There are a billion Muslims in the world. How is it possible that essentially none have demonstrated against evils perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam? This is true even of the millions of Muslims living in free Western societies. What are non-Muslims of goodwill supposed to conclude? When the Israeli government did not stop a Lebanese massacre of Palestinians in the Sabra and Chatilla refugee camps in Lebanon in 1982, great crowds of Israeli Jews gathered to protest their country's moral failing. Why has there been no comparable public demonstration by Palestinians or other Muslims to morally condemn Palestinian or other Muslim-committed terror?

(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

If Israeli occupation is the reason for Muslim terror in Israel, why do no Christian Palestinians engage in terror? They are just as nationalistic and just as occupied as Muslim Palestinians.

(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

According to Freedom House, a Washington-based group that promotes democracy, of the world's 47 Muslim countries, only Mali is free. Sixty percent are not free, and 38 are partly free. Muslim-majority states account for a majority of the world's "not free" states. And of the 10 "worst of the worst," seven are Islamic states. Why is this?

(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

Young girls in Indonesia were recently beheaded by Muslim murderers.  Last year, Muslims — in the name of Islam — murdered hundreds of schoolchildren in Russia.  While reciting Muslim prayers, Islamic terrorists take foreigners working to make Iraq free and slaughter them.  Muslim daughters are murdered by their own families in the thousands in "honor killings."  And the Muslim government in Iran has publicly called for the extermination of Israel.

(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

No church or synagogue is allowed in Saudi Arabia. The Taliban destroyed some of the greatest sculptures of the ancient world because they were Buddhist. Sudan's Islamic regime has murdered great numbers of Christians.
Instead of confronting these problems, too many of you deny them. Muslims call my radio show to tell me that even speaking of Muslim or Islamic terrorists is wrong. After all, they argue, Timothy McVeigh is never labeled a "Christian terrorist." As if McVeigh committed his terror as a churchgoing Christian and in the name of Christ, and as if there were Christian-based terror groups around the world.

As a member of the media for nearly 25 years, I have a long record of reaching out to Muslims. Muslim leaders have invited me to speak at major mosques. In addition, I have studied Arabic and Islam, have visited most Arab and many other Muslim countries and conducted interfaith dialogues with Muslims in the United Arab Emirates as well as in the U.S. Politically, I have supported creation of a Palestinian state and supported (mistakenly, I now believe) the Oslo accords.

Hundreds of millions of non-Muslims want honest answers to these questions, even if the only answer you offer is, "Yes, we have real problems in Islam." Such an acknowledgment is infinitely better — for you and for the world — than dismissing us as anti-Muslim.

We await your response."

Included in the list

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  • ArtFullyMe gold member
    April 25, 2006
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    deal.... go through mine and you'll see that I'm not nearly as stoic as I sound..

    and thanks for yours too..

  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 25, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    AlmostMe,

    Go through my work sometime and you'll see that I have written about problems in America numerous times. I'm definitely not one of those "America, love it or leave it" types. I respect what my country has accomplished, but cry for its failings.

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    Mark

  • ArtFullyMe gold member
    April 21, 2006
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    Would you prefer that people remain silent about them so that the abuses can continue?

    Of course not. However I always find it interesting that so many can focus on the atrocities they see in cultures different from their own while missing the ones that go on in their own back yard.

    Enough said. I will repeat, I wasn't here to change your view. Merely state mine.


    Edited on Apr 21, 1:31 p.m. because ''.

  • ArtFullyMe gold member
    April 21, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    I'm not asking you to edit your column. Perhaps some have read this in the past and decided their tactics would be best served by doing so, or picking a fight with you. I'm not interested in doing that.

    When I say this is too simplified for me, it's because I see this as the tip of the problem not the entire cause of it. It seems far too linear to classify those you refer to in terms of 'good' or 'bad'. Nothing is ever that 'black' and 'white' in my view.

    There are fundementalists or extremists in every religion (as many here have pointed out) every walk of life, politics included, and have been for millenia. The question is why, isn't it? If you were to eradicate all of the so called 'bad muslims' would that be the solution? an end to the threat? I think not, because at bottom there is far more to it than that, and nothing to suggest that others would not take their place.

    So ..in essence.. the solution is too simplified.


    Edited on Apr 21, 1:21 p.m. because ''.

  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 21, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    I will be happy to edit this column if anyone gives me any proof that these atrocities are not happening. However, with my links to stories, articles and photographs, I have proven that they are. Would you prefer that people remain silent about them so that the abuses can continue? If this is too simplified, enlighten me. I'm all ears. Changes in this world come about because of people who speak up, not people who don't.

    Re. the march, anyone can march, of course. You don't have to be Muslim or even American. I just want it to be identified as a Muslim march because the non-Muslim population in America would be immensely relieved at the sight of a few hundred thousand Muslims marching against Muslim terror, and nothing could do more to improve relations between them here in America, or send a better message to Muslim terrorists, most of whom are probably so deluded that they assume all Muslims secretly agree with what they're doing.

    Check my latest post for details.

    Mark

  • ArtFullyMe gold member
    April 21, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    According to those 'human rights' you are defending, I have a right to state my opinion, as you have a right to state yours. You made yours clear, and I made mine clear. I fail to see how that could be construed as attacking you. However if you see it that way then allow me to apologize, it wasn't my intention. I simply find this write: offensive, and far too simplified for my liking.

  • ArtFullyMe gold member
    April 21, 2006
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    'inviting all American Muslims' ...

    Well that excludes me, as one I'm not Muslim, and two I'm not American. Also, at no point did I attack you, I merely said I found this offensive.


  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 21, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    Check out my latest post on a march to Washington I'm trying to organize. I'm inviting all American Muslims to attend. I'll expect you to be there. I hope you're willing to do more than just attack people who try to identify human rights abuses in the world so that they can perhaps someday be solved.

  • ArtFullyMe gold member
    April 21, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    I'm curious about one thing.. how would you define a 'christian extremist' ?
    Edited on Apr 21, 1:46 because ''.
  • Mad-Hatter
    April 20, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    "Muslims who don't support Islamic terrorists or condone their actions need to speak, write, act, and march much more than they are currently."

    No one wants to be a martyr.
    You must keep in mind that this is the country where you yourself said that Saddam Hussein executed over 400,000 people.
    This is the same country where you'll get as far as, "I don't agree with-" before you're shot.



    TO CLARIFY: I myself am not a Muslim, and I don't know much about the Islam religion. I don't intend on giving the impression that I do, and I don't want anyone to think that I say what I say out of arrogance.



    "If we all believed that we were alone on this earth and had only each other to depend on, maybe things would be better."

    I'm very sorry, but I must disagree with this. I myself am a Christian, but I've studied other religions as well (Buddhism being one of my favorites).

    Religion is to keep people from doing wrong, isn't it? Do not most, if not all, religions have the same basic rules: Do not steal, do not kill, do not lie, etc. (not quoting the Ten Commandments, btw. It just looks like it.)

    You demonstrated above how the Kuran does not have these basic rules that most religions do, but you also said that the Kuran has not changed and been updated to meet the needs of the modern world, like most religions have.

    A good example is in Christianity. In Corintheans it actually states a woman must remain silent except to her husband. Christianity and Islam, remarkably, developed in the same region, did they not? And does this Corinthean passage not resemble the similar Muslim belief that women may not speak to anyone but their husband, and cover her face, nor go out in public without the company of a man?

    There is (in my opinion) an obvious connection between the two. However, you do not see Christian women remaining silent, as Corintheans says to, do you?
    And yet, with a similar rule, the Muslim women have.


    Please do not forget the point I was getting at: Religions are not to divide us, but to unite us. And the reason the Kuran does not have the same basic rules as other religions may be because, as you yourself had said, it is not updated to fit the modern day.



    "Arabs throughout the Middle East are brainwashing and poisoning the minds of their own children in the service of their own hatred and bloodlust."

    Once again, the basic rules. EVERY religion (I am certain. I may still be wrong, though) states that all other religions are wrong and to only believe theirs.
    As such, could it not be said that the Muslim Extremists are responsible for the above quotation? They are, after all, taking it a bit far with the 'our religion is right and yours is wrong'.




    "In an interview, a Palestinian child said, "I hope when I get to 14 or 15 to explode myself." Obviously, any sane mother would discourage her own children from committing suicide for any reason. On the contrary, this boy's mother smiles proudly and pats her son on the head, eager to help him realize his dream - the dream she and his other hate-filled relatives planted in his eager-to-please, young mind. His mother even has a toy "suicide bomber" costume in the living room. She lets her son practice pulling the pin on the grenade while she serves tea to a visitor."

    While true, and despite how many times you say not to group Muslims or any group of people together, this statement still looks like it's stereotyping, and I could understand why some would be angry about it.
    I would suggest rewording it only slightly, making it once again clear you are speaking of the extremists, and not Palestians in general. Some things, after all, must be spelt out to be PAINFULLY OBVIOUS. After all, humans have an exceptional talent at turning a blind eye to things.




    "There is great power in the written word."

    Much power, indeed. However, as Hitler himself stated in Mein Kampf: "People are more prone to listen to what is spoken to them, rather than what is written down."




    Which is why I end this with:
    I will agree with you on that Muslims need to speak out. However, as I stated above, no one wants to be a martyr.
    it's a problem, to be sure. It needs to be solved, but the fact of the matter is that it's not as easy as telling them over and over it's wrong.
    It's their religion, after all.
    For example: I don't care HOW many times someone tells me my religion is wrong, I'm always going to be a Christian. The only way that I would disregard my religion (and as such, the only way to stop the Muslim extremists), is if I came to the conclusion that it was wrong (and as such: THEY have to realize it's wrong.)


    But, as I stated before, this is no small task.





  • d a f f o d i l
    April 19, 2006
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    you are most welcome mark..i do commend you on your determination to stand up for what you believe..even if i dont agree to a full extent...Aslong as we remeber it isnt ALL muslims who cause riots..just like it isnt ALL Christians...

    Fern

  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 19, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    The Majority of Muslims Are Peaceful - So What?
    by Dennis Prager

    Whenever the question of Islam and violence, specifically terror, is raised, we are repeatedly told that "the vast majority of Muslims in the world are peaceful people" who never engage in terror. This is entirely accurate. And entirely irrelevant. The vast majority of Germans living in the Nazi era were also peaceful; very few ever so much as laid a hand on a Jew. So, too, the vast majority of Russians
    never killed anyone while 20-40 million of their fellow citizens were murdered by their Communist regime under Stalin.

    The point here is that the threat to civilization emanating from within Islam is no more obviated by the fact that the great majority of Muslims are not violent than the threat that emanated from Nazism was obviated by the peaceful behavior of the great majority of Germans or the threat from Soviet Communism was nullified by the nonviolence among the great majority of Russians. Germany was a threat to civilization because Nazis and their ideology took over German society while the majority of Germans (the "good Germans") either supported Nazi ideals or did nothing. Russia was a threat to civilization because Communists took over the country, and
    the great majority of Russians either supported Papa Stalin or did nothing. Some Islamic societies are today becoming a threat to civilization because Islamic totalitarians and terrorists are taking over those societies while a majority of Muslims either support their ideals or do nothing. That is why it is meaningless at best and dishonest at worst to deny the threat to civilization coming from various Muslim countries by noting that most Muslims are not violent. Only a handful of Saudis terrorized America on 9-11-01, but a large majority of Saudis support Osama bin Laden. Few Palestinians strap bombs onto their children's bodies, but the majority of them support such evil and none others publicly morally condemn it. At this moment, the dominant strain of Islamic thought is totalitarian, meaning that wherever possible, a government should be Islamic and govern according
    to a strict interpretation of the Sharia (Muslim religious law).

    Furthermore, when necessary and when possible, the Islamists believe these religious laws should be imposed violently -- as in Sudan, Nigeria, Afghanistan and elsewhere. In addition, the dominant ideological trend in much of Islamic society is hate-filled. What is said daily about Jews in Middle Eastern mosques rivals what the Nazis said about Jews. And not only in mosques. During Ramadan, Egyptian television is running a 41-part series based on the anti-Semitic forgery "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." For all these reasons, one's moral assessment of what is taking place in the Muslim world must
    be made independent of the fact that the great majority of Muslims are peaceful people. Their peaceful lifestyle is not influencing the bellicose trends in their religion. Thus, what is most frightening is not that there are Muslim terrorists, but by how little criticism of Islamic terror emanates from normative Islamic groups. While some Muslim groups have condemned individual acts of Islamic terror such as
    9-11, not one significant Muslim group in the world, including here in free America, has condemned Islamic terror generally. And the leaders of Al-Azhar University, the most prestigious institution of Islamic learning, have actually morally and religiously come out in support of Islamic suicide terror against Israelis. So the fact that the majority of those living in the Islamic countries are good people is of no
    consequence. Unless they do something to condemn and to isolate the Muslim totalitarians and terrorists in their midst, history will judge them as it has all the good Germans during the Holocaust.

    Dennis Prager is a radio talk show host, author, and contributing columnist for Townhall.com.

  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 19, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    daffodil,

    Agreed, but radical Christians aren't currently trying to destroy the west, radical Muslims are. Atrocities committed by other religions in the past are irrelevant to today's situation. Violent religious fanatics, past or present, need to be stopped, not ignored.

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    Mark

  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 19, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    AJ,

    I have agreed repeatedly that all religions have had their problems and fanatics. However, past atrocities by Christians are irrelevant to this debate because Christian extremists are NOT the ones who are currently trying to destroy America and kill every American they can, Muslim extremists are.

    The main reasons problems within the Muslim world never get solved is because people accuse anyone who tries to identify the problems as "disrespectful", blindly defend their faith, and write the person off as anti-Muslim. Every criticism I made in my article is true, not something I made up, and I backed everything up with photographs and links to articles about them. The reason I'm being attacked is because the actions of some Muslims in the name of Islam are indefensible. All good Muslims need to say is, "Yes, there are some serious problems with the way some Muslims think, and radical changes are needed in some parts of the Middle East." I guess that's too much to ask. It's easier just to call me intolerant and avoid the issues I raised.

    FYI, I'm going to spend the next six months asking Muslims around the country to hold a march against Muslim extremism in Washington, D.C. on 9/11/06. If good Muslims in America really do condemn Muslim extremism and terrorism, and if they really do want repair the damage Muslim fanatics have done to the image of Islam, I can't think of a better way. I'm not going to organize it myself because obviously, even good Muslims won't take me seriously or admit to the possibility that I actually want to help improve human rights around the world, stop terrorism, etc. I guess it's too hard to imagine that a white, non-Muslim conservative male has a heart.

    I hope you'll sign up for the march. I'm going to put up a post about it under another name with frequent updates because it's not worth putting my or my family's life in danger for. The hostility and abuse I received from people on this site who call themselves good Muslims makes me more worried than ever about what the bad ones might do when they hear a non-Muslim is trying to put together a march against Muslim terror.

    I'll keep you posted. Hope to see you there.

    Mark

  • d a f f o d i l
    April 19, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    I truly do not want to be enravelled in this debate...and i have read the other comlumn from that girl too...It seems everyone has their own opinions and statements...ALl i can say is that i agree with Arabian Jewel..there are fundamentalist in all faiths and people who interpet the holy words differently...we ALL do it..It isnt just Islam...its many..including the christian faith...

    Fern
  • Gogetalife
    April 19, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    Mark, answering one of your comments above.. there is real problems in all religions not only in ISLAM because of how people use the name of religion to excuse their evil.. , and I won't answer the questions you gave me in your reply because they won't change anything you already said..plus I see that you have been disrespectful to my believes anyway.. The problem is not in religion itself..the big problem is people don't have morals even those who think they do..and this column should be posted in a site where the majority is muslim so you can get REAL ANSWERS to all your questions..not in a site where muslims are minority..
    AJ

  • astralshepherd gold member
    April 18, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    overwhelming

  • getsbetter gold member
    April 18, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    Hey Mark, I read your column. And I found it very interesting, there is many different types of religion and we must all respect each one's right to live by them. I think you touch on many fasets of them, and I agree with everything you have had to say throughout this column. I think there is a fine line of the way individuals have abused them causing many people to suffer from there cheap and idealistic ways just to suit there fancy. You were one of the first people here at AP I met and alway's have agreed with what you have said and appreciated all your comments and this my friend is no different. I am proud of you standing up to your beliefs and still respecting others as well. We are all just people in this world, one no better than the other. It's the idiots that try to rule other human souls and control them for there own personal gain. You have alway's been a very caring and helpful person (since I have met you anyway's) and that's one big reason I have enjoyed your friendship. Anyone complaining about this column, I think needs to check themselves before they try to put blame in the wrong place. I think your column was very interesting and heartfelt. Since I have known you, you have been a person for equal rights and freedom of speech for all and I don't believe in anyway through this column (ANYWHERE) have you never have tried to bash anyone or there religion or beliefs. I do agree that certian people try to minipulate relions fore there own personal gain, and it causes others to either have to follow their minipulation or be blamed for not following by it. I would stand behind all that you have had to say about all in this column and you just keep doing what your doing my friend. God bless you my friend. And again, I am proud to have met you and for what you have stood for. Heck, you have put out money to sponsor people that needed help when you wasn't even working yourself. Your friend alway's....GETS

  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 17, 2006
    Edit | Reply

    The article below was written by Dennis Prager, a talk show host in Los Angeles, and one of the greatest minds I've ever encountered (in general, not just on this subject.) He is a student of world religions, and world-renowned public speaker. In fact, he has been asked to speak at many mosques over the years. Please read it and answer the questions.

    If you're one of the people I blocked for being insulting and you want me to unblock you so you can address this, let me know and I will happily do so.


    FIVE QUESTIONS NON-MUSLIMS WOULD LIKE ANSWERED
    By Dennis Prager

    (Dennis Prager's nationally syndicated radio show is heard daily in Los Angeles on KRLA-AM (870). He may be contacted through his website: www.dennisprager.com)

    "The rioting in France by primarily Muslim youths and the hotel bombings in Jordan are the latest events to prompt sincere questions that law-abiding Muslims need to answer for Islam's sake, as well as for the sake of worried non-Muslims.

    Here are five of them:

    (1) Why are you so quiet?

    Since the first Israelis were targeted for death by Muslim terrorists blowing themselves up in the name of your religion and Palestinian nationalism, I have been praying to see Muslim demonstrations against these atrocities. Last week's protests in Jordan against the bombings, while welcome, were a rarity. What I have seen more often is mainstream Muslim spokesmen implicitly defending this terror on the grounds that Israel occupies Palestinian lands. We see torture and murder in the name of Allah, but we see no anti-torture and anti-murder demonstrations in the name of Allah.

    There are a billion Muslims in the world. How is it possible that essentially none have demonstrated against evils perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam? This is true even of the millions of Muslims living in free Western societies. What are non-Muslims of goodwill supposed to conclude? When the Israeli government did not stop a Lebanese massacre of Palestinians in the Sabra and Chatilla refugee camps in Lebanon in 1982, great crowds of Israeli Jews gathered to protest their country's moral failing. Why has there been no comparable public demonstration by Palestinians or other Muslims to morally condemn Palestinian or other Muslim-committed terror?

    (2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

    If Israeli occupation is the reason for Muslim terror in Israel, why do no Christian Palestinians engage in terror? They are just as nationalistic and just as occupied as Muslim Palestinians.

    (3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

    According to Freedom House, a Washington-based group that promotes democracy, of the world's 47 Muslim countries, only Mali is free. Sixty percent are not free, and 38 are partly free. Muslim-majority states account for a majority of the world's "not free" states. And of the 10 "worst of the worst," seven are Islamic states. Why is this?

    (4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

    Young girls in Indonesia were recently beheaded by Muslim murderers. Last year, Muslims — in the name of Islam — murdered hundreds of schoolchildren in Russia. While reciting Muslim prayers, Islamic terrorists take foreigners working to make Iraq free and slaughter them. Muslim daughters are murdered by their own families in the thousands in "honor killings." And the Muslim government in Iran has publicly called for the extermination of Israel.

    (5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

    No church or synagogue is allowed in Saudi Arabia. The Taliban destroyed some of the greatest sculptures of the ancient world because they were Buddhist. Sudan's Islamic regime has murdered great numbers of Christians.
    Instead of confronting these problems, too many of you deny them. Muslims call my radio show to tell me that even speaking of Muslim or Islamic terrorists is wrong. After all, they argue, Timothy McVeigh is never labeled a "Christian terrorist." As if McVeigh committed his terror as a churchgoing Christian and in the name of Christ, and as if there were Christian-based terror groups around the world.

    As a member of the media for nearly 25 years, I have a long record of reaching out to Muslims. Muslim leaders have invited me to speak at major mosques. In addition, I have studied Arabic and Islam, have visited most Arab and many other Muslim countries and conducted interfaith dialogues with Muslims in the United Arab Emirates as well as in the U.S. Politically, I have supported creation of a Palestinian state and supported (mistakenly, I now believe) the Oslo accords.

    Hundreds of millions of non-Muslims want honest answers to these questions, even if the only answer you offer is, "Yes, we have real problems in Islam." Such an acknowledgment is infinitely better — for you and for the world — than dismissing us as anti-Muslim.

    We await your response.







    Edited on Apr 17, 11:00 p.m. because ''.

  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 17, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    A few intelligent comments to push all the other kind off of this page. lol

    Since I'm receiving a lot of attacks on this piece by people accusing me of religious intolerance, I would like to share with you a few responses I received from someone here on AP who read this in the same spirit in which it was written . . .

    "I'm sorry that they're attacking you. But it's a religion they've believed in their entire lives and it has become part of their identity. If something is wrong in Islam and you highlight it, it feels like you're telling them that a part of their very personhood is wrong.

    Normally, if I find something wrong in myself, I change it. But they've got other people who don't find anything wrong with it to account to as well. So they're backs are against the wall by this article.

    Change can only come when a people realise that something is wrong. And since that's a bitter pill for most people to swallow, I suppose it's expected that they'd give you hell! lol!

    John the Baptist was a voice crying in the wilderness. Many people were saved because of him. And many people hated him. But that doesn't change the value of what he did or how many people he helped.

    Jeremiah as well was given hell by people, for telling them what they were doing wrong. They only realised his worth after he was already dead!

    So . . . you are no different, Mark.

    Keep on giving righteousness and true virtue a voice. If you have been wrong about anything so far, you're human and God knows that. He also knows the nature and state of your heart and that all you have done and said has been geared toward positive change.

    I love you for bein you. You are not alone. Cheer up. And pity the people who have yet to reach the point (and who many never reach it) in the journey of growth that you have."


    ****************************

    Mark,

    "This is certainly a well-researched essay, Mark, and I greatly appreciate all of the work that you must have put into it. I read every word, including all of the comments and your replies. I certainly wish there could be peace in this world, that women would be treated as equals of men, that all of the nations and religions could live together in harmony and respect, that people would no longer attempt to force their own will upon others, that everyone could enjoy a good standard of living, without anyone having to live in fear ever again. I hope your words, and the people who read them, can help the world to move in that direction."

    ~Charles~

    ******************************

    Mark,

    I just felt compelled to send you a message after spending the past hour or so trawling through both yours and XpatiencegraceX's columns and every comment on each.

    When I read your column for the first time, I didn't see it as bashing the Muslim faith, but more of an observation, and probably a good rant against, the treatment of women, etc., in some Islamic countries, why perhaps people act that way, why terrorists act, why some Muslims are silent against it, etc. I never saw it as having a go at anybody's faith.

    Yet reading that girl's responses, she seems to have just interpreted you as a Christian, which I've seen you've said you're not, and then she made that column which pointed out all of the sexist comments in the bible, etc. Yes, it's true they are there, but also the topic of your column was not to do with that - and what she perhaps doesn't realise is that Christians, or most of them, aren't treating 'their' women the same way that some Muslims are. Sure, in history it happened but you were talking about what is happening today and why it is still happening.

    Anyway, I know I made no contribution to anything there, but reading everything just moved me to say I admire, respect and fully believe in what you've said - I think you're very brave and in no way 'ignorant' as some people have said.

    Bella

    *******************************


    Where are the Moderate Muslims?

    Once I read that the number of Germans directly involved in the Holocaust — giving orders in Berlin, building the infrastructure of the death camps, rounding up victims, piloting trains, releasing the gas, hunting down escapees and so forth — was 100,000.

    In 1939 the population of the Reich was 80 million, so slightly more than one-tenth of 1 percent of the Germans were actually involved in murdering Jews.

    Yet, somehow, I never see anyone trying to clear the German volk of the guilt of the crimes of Hitler's "tiny extremist minority." No, the verdict of history is that all Germans share the burden, because all Germans let it happen.

    Today, many progressives in the Western world try to explain away crimes committed in the name of Islam. A Google search for the apologetic phrase "tiny extremist minority" turns up 252,000 results. Why is not the passive Muslim majority held to the same standard as the passive German majority?

    And just how tiny is this "tiny" minority anyway?

    Let's look at what some of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims believe.

    In 2003, Nawaf Obaid, a Saudi national security consultant, surveyed 15,000 Saudis. Nearly 50 percent supported Osama bin Laden. Last July the Pew Research Center found that 51 percent of its sample of Pakistanis place confidence in Osama, and 60 percent of Jordanians support him. Is 60 percent a tiny minority?

    The Pew Center also found that in Lebanon, support for suicide bombing in defense of Islam is 39 percent of its sample, and in Jordan it's 57 percent. Is 57 percent a tiny minority?

    In October 2003, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah found that 75 percent of Palestinians in its sample supported the bombing of the Maxim restaurant in Haifa that killed 23 people, mostly Jews. Is 75 percent a tiny minority?

    The London Telegraph reported in February that its ICM poll showed 40 percent of British Muslims in its sample favor applying sharia law in predominantly Muslim areas of the country. Is 40 percent a tiny minority?

    In Turkey last year, a publisher issued a new $3.50 edition of "Mein Kampf." Previous editions cost $7. In the first quarter alone, the book sold more than 50,000 copies and reached the best-seller list drawn up by the D&R bookstore chain. Does a No. 5 book represent a tiny minority?

    According to the Pew Center, large majorities of Muslims strongly dislike Jews in nations such as Morocco, Indonesia, Pakistan and Turkey. But it's hard to top Lebanon and Jordan, where the unfavorable rate is 99 percent. Who knew 99 percent could be a tiny minority?

    A poll carried out by the London Guardian last year said 13 percent of British Muslims in the sample would support another 9-11-style attack on the United States. Another 15 percent were not sure. I wonder: Were these 15 percent really not sure, or did they simply choose to disguise their true feelings from a pollster?

    The Muslim Council said the poll showed that the "overwhelming majority" of British Muslims "abhor" terrorism. That would be 72 percent opposing another 9-11, vs. 28 percent willing to consider it. There are more than 1.5 million Muslims in Britain, so 28 percent translates to 420,000 people who might be pleased to see more Americans leap out of blazing towers or definitely would be pleased to see more Americans leap out of blazing towers. I am not reassured.

    A YouGov survey carried out for the London Daily Telegraph last July showed that 6 percent of British Muslims in the sample believe the 7-7 bombings were fully justified. Six percent is indeed a minority, but it's not quite a tiny one, and it's still 90,000 people, if the sample is translated to the entire target population.

    Another 56 percent of British Muslims in the sample said they can understand why the bombers acted. Eighteen percent feel little or no loyalty to their country. Thirty-two percent believe "Western society is decadent and immoral" and "Muslims should seek to bring it to an end."

    Seventy-three percent say they would inform the police if they knew something about a planned terrorist attack. This sounds nice, doesn't it? That "overwhelming majority" again. Until you realize it means that 27 percent of British Muslims would not inform the police of an imminent attack.

    Last October a university in the conservative Turkish city of Diyarbakir released a survey on honor killings. It showed that 37 percent of the men and women in its sample believe that if a woman cheats on her husband, she should be killed. Another 21 percent would spare her life and just cut off her nose or ears.

    The United Nations says there are 5,000 honor killings every year in the Muslim world. The London Guardian reported in November 2004 on a survey conducted by the Egyptian government that found that one in three women has been beaten by her husband. Eighty-six percent of the women in the sample regarded this as normal.

    A large majority of women believe that refusal to have sex with their husband is grounds for a beating. In the survey reported in the London Guardian, 26 percent of women in their 20s responded they believe they deserve a beating if they burn dinner. Forty-two percent believe they deserve a beating if they spend too much money. Sixty-five percent believe they deserve a beating if they talk to another man.

    I find these numbers frightening. Well-armed with facts and logic, you might be able to convince me that the "tiny extremist minority" of Islam is indeed a "minority," strictly speaking. But a "tiny" minority? I'm afraid I just don't buy it.


  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 17, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    So let me get this straight - because you're related to soldiers, you have some kind of moral high ground? Don't think so. You may be a "proud believer in freedom of religion", but you're definitely not a proud believer in freedom of speech, which includes the freedom to question members of a religion who continue to insist that their religion is the "religion of peace" while killing as many of our soldiers as they can and conducting over 2600 terrorist attacks since 9/11. That should bother you more than me.

    I was raised as a Christian but recently posted nine consecutive columns questioning Christianity. So how am I bigoted against "anything different from me"? That's why I become disrespectful toward liberals like you. You'll say anything to "win" an argument and impress your friends on this site, even if it means being dishonest. Of course, researching the person you're criticizing is out of the question. As long as he's a conservative white male, that's good enough reason to start name-calling. The left just seems to attract lowlifes who can't help going off-topic and being insulting and over-emotional.

    I'm not so unrealistic and egotistical that I think one piece of mine on one website in the vastness of the internet is going to "end terrorism", but I decided to post it because changes come about when you prick people's collective conscience, and I think a crime that is being piled onto the crimes the terrorists are committing is the profound silence from good Muslims all over the world. Where are the marches in the Middle East protesting the terrorists and telling them that they don't represent the true Islam? Where are the marches here in America? You tell me. When the people who should speak don't, the people who shouldn't speak (according to you) must.


  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 17, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    I put the word "extremist" or "fundamentalist" or "fanatical" in front of the word Muslim EVERY TIME in this article. Isn't that enough proof that I'm not lumping all Muslims together. You're reading what you want to read, probably as a result of being oversensitive about people attacking your religion. Another Muslim who commented on this said the same thing and called me every name in the book because I dared to criticize Islamic terrorists, good Muslims who don't do anything to demonstrate their alleged disapproval of the terrorists' actions, and the passages of the Koran that are used by Islamic EXTREMISTS to justify evil actions. It was only after days of arguing that I learned that what she was really mad about was kids at her school throwing trash at her because she's Muslim, and she was taking it out on me. I would ask you to read this again and try to see past your own defensiveness. Try to see the words I put in front of Muslim every single time. That's enough evidence that I know there are some good Muslims.

    Re. the title, yes, it is a call to action for good Muslims to prove to the world that Islam is what Muslims constantly repeat that it is - a religion of peace. They need to say more, do more, write more, and march in great numbers to protest the actions of Muslim terrorists. Otherwise, the world at large will continue to lose trust and faith in Muslims in general. Silence equals agreement in most people's minds. I can guarantee you this - if agnostic American males were running around blowing up everything in sight, I would be writing about them, marching, and loudly protesting their actions. Where are all the good Muslims? Why don't Muslims who attack me about this piece ever answer the important questions, like:

    1. Where are all the good Muslims? Why have I not seen one march on the streets of America or the Middle East protesting the actions of the terrorists?

    2. Do you think honor killings are a good thing? If not, why do you object to this column?

    3. Do you agree with terrorism? If not, why don't you have the courage I did to write and post this and write one of your own? Why are YOU so silent?

    4. Do you deny the fact that women in some parts of the Middle East are oppressed?

    5. Why are 46 of the 47 Muslim dominated countries not free?

    6. Why don't you explain the passages in the Koran that I cited. (I already know - because there is no justifying or excusing them away. I just want to hear you say it.)

    Instead of just accusing me of racism, which I think you know deep down is not true, please answer those questions. I challenge any Muslim who visits this page to do the same. I know it's easier to just write me off as an intolerant psycho or whatever, but try to answer the questions.

    Mark


    Edited on Apr 17, 10:26 p.m. because ''.
  • Gogetalife
    April 17, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    Hi Mark,
    I am disapointed to read this column, It is actually very well written but it seems to me that you are attacking muslims in general not only terrorists.. each part of Quaran that you used above have long story behind..and you can not just state something without stating the history when and why..those things were said..
    Going to any book of any religion, you will always find parts that doesn't make sense if you don't know exactely their meaning..
    Anyway as I said above I am very disapointed that you are attacking "Islam" and that shows even from your title..I wished you only attacked terrorists but you didn't..you actually put everybody else that believes in Quaran in same pot ..and remember I am American Muslim but I AM NOT A TERRORIST.

    your muslim friend AJ

  • Mark Rickerby gold member
    April 17, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    DF,

    You raised some great points. I'm afraid she won't be able to respond here, however, because she asked me to stop commenting on her work, so I blocked her. Of course, after I agreed to end it, she continued to leave insulting remarks about me on her response to this column, revealing her 16 year old maturity level. We've just got to realize who we're arguing with. lol

    I've been to the Giant's Causeway many times, and walked across the Carrick-a-Rede rope bridge, of course. Such a magical place. Can't wait to see it again.

    Thanks again for your thoughts on this. It's nice to know that there are a few sane people on this site who don't put political correctness above common sense.

    Mark

  • DefinitiveFreak
    April 17, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    Mark,

    I live in north Antrim, near the Giant's Causeway, but I spend most of the year in England as a student. Let's see if she's daft enough to ask why I went to England!

  • DefinitiveFreak
    April 17, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    Patient Grace,

    First mistake. I'm not American. Not everyone on this site is American. And I'm not English either. I'm Irish. So I shall quote yerself back at ye: "So, I would appreciate it if you didn't make judgement without knowledge."

    There may be churches everywhere in the world, but what kind are they? In countries that are predominantly Muslim do not condone any sort of Christian church or worship. My family's church know people who are missionaries in those such countries, and they are hiding underground in order to teach the word of God to those who want to hear. Some have been caught and imprisoned, some have even been killed. So again, I quote yerself right back at ye: "So, I would appreciate it if you didn't make judgement without knowledge."

    As I read in another one of your replies to Mark, you father went to America to get a job. That's because there are more opportunities for people there. It is the 'land of the free' and the 'land of opportunity'. You just proved my point, thank you very much.

    As for my name, it