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Punctuation?!..).(

Tired of people telling you your punctuation stinks? Grab a bowl of ice cream, and come on in. Let's talk commas.

 

Has somebody told you that the punctuation in your poem needs work, but they haven’t told you how to fix it? Why the heck would somebody do such an insensitive thing?! Well, there are two possibilities:

























1. The person is actually an ogre, who just enjoys making people feel bad.

 

Or

 

2. The thought of giving you a grammar lesson brings back memories of junior high school, which causes chills to run down their spines, rendering them incapable of speech.

 

Most likely number 2 is the case. The problem is that punctuation is actually really tied up in grammar, and it takes a rather lengthy and technical explanation to really pin down exactly where a poem went wrong with punctuation. Don’t worry, we’re not going to get all technical here (as you can tell from the ogre drawing ). In fact, we don’t really need to get too technical. The most major point that we need to make with punctuation is:

 

INTENTION!

 

Your poem should have a subject, and what you put into your poem should contribute to that subject. Let’s consider the poem’s subject, and the impression you want it to leave on the reader, the ‘intention’ of the poem. This should always be your primary consideration when you are looking at punctuation in your poem. In other words, you don’t have to have any punctuation in your poem at all... IF that works with your intention.

 

An example:

 

In a poem which is trying to express the absolute certainty of your love for your romantic partner, if you were to write the following lines:

 

1.I love
2.you I hate
3.every other person

 

You would create an ambiguity in line 2, which could be read as ‘I hate you’! You don’t want to say that in this poem! Your partner is going to make you sleep on the couch if you write this poem! In this case, we would want to put a period after ‘you’ in line 2 (let’s just assume we’re not going to change the line lengths). Here, punctuation turned out to be important.

 

But what if you were writing a poem expressing your feelings just after breaking up with your romantic partner, when those feelings are still mixed up and confused? Using the same lines:

 

1.I love
2.you I hate
3.every other person

 

We see that now the ambiguity in line 2 isn’t such a bad thing. The fact that it could be read two ways is intentional- it is relevant to the emotions you are expressing. In the larger picture, this meaning should be present throughout the whole poem.

 

Author's disclaimer: The above lines were in no way actually good! Do not try to use them!

 

Now that we have covered intention, we can move into a few particular areas of punctuation. Anyone else feel a cold sweat developing? Whew.

Since the page I am looking at in Simon & Schuster's "Handbook for Writers", sixth edition, says that "commas are the most frequently used marks of punctuation, occuring twice as often as all other punctuation marks combined," I think that it is likely that misuse of commas is probably the most common problem with punctuation.  So for the purposes of this article, let's just cover commas.

Commas

Where might you use a comma? 

To coordinate a conjuction.
Huh?  Check it out:

1.I wrote a great poem, and put it on the internet.

Don't want to use that comma?  That's cool.  We're uber cool poets, so we don't need this particular comma.  Here's what we do:

1.I wrote a great poem
2.and put it on the internet.

Okay, the comma is still there, you just can't see it.   We're using an end stop (the end of line 1) as a comma.  Since we are poets of the 21st century, we can do that!

Clauses

Closets?  No, clauses.  Let's break down a typical sentence:

1.I always get popcorn || when I go to an AMC theater.

Why did I put those two funny looking lines in there?  The words to the left of the lines are a complete thought.  They could be a sentence all of their own.  This is called an independent clause*.  I always get popcorn.  Okay, no problem.  The words to the right of the lines are a dependent clause.  They can't be used in a sentence by themselves.  When I go to an AMC theater.  Er...  That just doesn't sound right.  It sounds like something an ogre would write!

What does this have to do with commas?  When you want to put the dependent clause first, you have to use a comma (I just did it!).  Like this:

1.When I go to an AMC theater, I always get popcorn.

Once again, us poets can do away with the comma:

1.When I go to an AMC theater
2.I always get popcorn.

Unfortunately, this isn't a particularly good poem.  So let's move on...

1.My uncle is coming to live with us.
2.My uncle farts in his sleep.

These two stellar lines can be merged into one sentence, in which a dependent clause (who farts in his sleep) interrupts an independent clause (My uncle is coming to live with us).  Remember that an independent clause can be its own sentence, whereas a dependent clause cannot.  Here is the finished product:

1.My uncle, who farts in his sleep, is coming to live with us.

If you took out the commas, the meaning of this sentence would change:

2. My uncle who farts in his sleep is coming to live with us.

The subject in line 1 is "My uncle".  The subject in line two is "My uncle who farts in his sleep".  If we read line 2, we are forced to conclude that you have other uncles because you distinguished between them by picking the one who farts in his sleep.  In line 1, you were just clarifying that the uncle who is coming to live with you farts in his sleep.  We feel your pain.

Of course, you can choose to substitute an end stop for any of those commas.

Lists

This will be my last point.  When you write a list, you want to separate the items with commas.

1.  I need milk, eggs, sugar, and wheaties from the grocery store.

That was pretty simple.  Notice, though, that I used a comma after sugar.  Always use a comma before the last item on a list (wheaties in this case).

There is one other thing you should note about lists.  You can make a list of dependent clauses (those bits that don't make good sentences by themselves), but you need to be careful with that list.  A really long list of dependent clauses creates a feeling of anticipation in the reader, who will be waiting for the independent clause (that mighty complete thought) to perform its coup de grace and finish everything off with a flourish.  If you don't put an independent clause in somewhere, the reader is going to be pretty mad at you.

Here's what I'm talking about:

1.A dozen candles burning seductively,
2.A set of fine dishes,
3.The sweet smell of butter,
4.The heady odor of crab,
5.A vase full of roses,
6.A checkered tablecloth,
7.A pleasant jazz riff,
8.A gentle breeze.


Arg!!!  There was never a single independent clause!  We waited for it on the edge of our seats the whole poem, but it just didn't come.  This anticipation is good for the intention of the poem, but I can't help but feel we need some delivery!  Let's try adding one more line:

1.A dozen candles burning seductively,
2.A set of fine dishes,
3.The sweet smell of butter,
4.The heady odor of crab,
5.A vase full of roses,
6.A checkered tablecloth,
7.A pleasant jazz riff,
8.A gentle breeze,

9.Are you ready for dinner, my love?

Ah...  That's better - to my mind at least.  I'm all ready to eat!

But wait.  We're modern poets.  Let's see what it looks like with end stops instead of commas:

1.A dozen candles burning seductively
2.A set of fine dishes
3.The sweet smell of butter
4.The heady odor of crab
5.A vase full of roses
6.A checkered tablecloth
7.A pleasant jazz riff
8.A gentle breeze
9.Are you ready for dinner, my love?

I won't tell you what to think here.  Which one is better?  You decide.

There are actually more uses for commas, but I feel that these are the most relevant to poetry.

In conclusion

I have not covered all the punctuation errors that one can make, but I hope you've learned a little, and that you've had fun.  Learning is a process that happens little by little, so try to get the hang of these comma tricks for now, and maybe we can learn something more another time.  Keep in mind that huge word that I used:

INTENTION!

Good luck with your writing!

Mike



Appendix 1: semicolons.

When can I use this funky semicolon?  This seems to be a question that high school English teachers avoid like the plague, because I can't seem to recall actually learning the correct use of semicolons before I graduated.  Nevertheless, we shall not be flustered here; semicolons are simple;hence, we shall decode them!

Semicolons come in handy for combining independent clauses that are alike in meaning.

I like ice cream; what's on the TV? No.  Incorrect usage.  These are not related!

Pistachio ice cream is the best on the planet; no human can resist it! Yes!  Oh great blessed harmony - this is a splended semicolon!

Combining a dependent clause with an independent clause using a semicolon is a 'no no.'

Working on this article; many of my hairs have begun to fall out. Nope.  Uh huh.  Sorry.  As we saw before, we can use a comma here (or a line break - poets rock!), but since 'Working on this article' is not an independant clause (it's actually just a subject without a predicate) we cannot use a semicolon.

As you may have noted at the end of my introductory semicolon paragraph, you may use a conjuctive adverb or transitional expression (nevertheless, but, therefore; as a result, as such, regardless of indications) followed by a comma to preceed the second independent clause.

Note that you can keep stringing like independant clauses together indefinitely, but you'll be stretching that similarity and hurting your reader's brain.

For clarification, the difference between a semicolon and a period is that a period indicates a full separation between two clauses, whereas a semicolon indicates only a partial separation.  Get it?  Good.

This ends the colon appendix.  I hope you now feel closer and more well acquainted with your new friend: the semicolon!

*How do you make an independent clause?  You need a subject and a predicate to make an independent clause.  What am I talking about?  Let's take a look:

Jimmy shot Jane.

This is an independent clause.  The subject is 'Jimmy', and the predicate is 'shot Jane'.  'Shot' is the verb and 'Jane' is the direct object being affected by 'shot'.

We can also have an indirect object in an independent clause.

Jimmy gave Jane a concussion.

'Jimmy' is the subject.  'gave Jane a concussion' is the predicate.  'Gave' is the verb, 'Jane' is an indirect object, and 'concussion' is the direct object.  What Jimmy gave was a concussion.  Jane is who he gave it to.  

I won't get more into this, even though there are a lot more permutations on the independent clause.  If it feels right as a sentence, and it doesn't need anything to complete it, then it's probably an independent clause.  If you aren't sure, try asking someone.

---------------------------------------------------------
"Simon and Schuster Handbook for Writers", sixth edition, ©2002 Lynn Quitman Troyka, Published by Pearson Education, Inc, Upper Saddle River, NJ 07458.
(I'm going to jail now, aren't I?)

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1 - 61 of 61

  • dustookie2
    June 17, 2006
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    respectful with education

    yes i think we can all do with some refresher hints in grammar from time to time no matter how good we think or we are as it is always interesting to see what other people think. I must comment on the way in which you have presented this column. i have read some where i am really being talked down to by some teenager who seems to think because they are still in school have the right to place a comment or column in such a mode that they 'appear' to be educated beyond doubt a professional lecturer employed at a university only to find out they are a 'student'. From that point i really appreciate your column. The ease in which it comes across and the points you have raised. Brilliant i go back and read old text books from primary, middle and high school texts from time to time. Thank you for a very well presented column.


  • Passionate Desyre
    December 24, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    You have all these great columns, such as the one above. You should really be a teacher here at AP. Teach some classes on the things you have written columns on. I think It would be great. You should give it some thought.

    Very good column.
    Desyre


  • Legend silver member
    November 23, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Hi Mike I am so pleased that I came here through return the favour. I am the worlds worst at punctuation,i have no idea what so ever of how it works.
    This is down to lack of schooling when i was young. I never managed to catch up on lost time.
    This has helped me no end and i hope to take avantage of this lesson.
    A wonderful way you have of explaining,i am sure that i can only improve by learning from this Thank you so much.


  • pentopaper
    November 9, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    This is a terrific column. I like the way you injected a bit of humor too. I was due for a refresher course in comma's! I have bookmarked this, as I am sure I will need to reference it now and then. Thanks so much for this! Karen


  • Mephitic ID Synergy gold member
    October 25, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Hmm... Maybe I'll cover apostrophe use, and commonly confused words in the next article. Thanks for your comment.

    Mike


  • Serene
    October 25, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    a most reassuring article to point out the usage of commas in certain ways to appease and accommodate all readers and writers, an all-must-read, and good-to-know feature, which is the most commonly misused and/or quite misunderstood, if i can even say that. I enjoyed this feature, and thank you for this. If I can say aside from this, while we're still on the subject of grammar and its use, one of the most common mistakes is the use of the possession forms, as in "your", which many tend to want to use instead of "you're". I'm thinking maybe it's just easier for their fingers to just reach over with just the "r" instead of the the postrophe and then the "re", or maybe they just don't know the difference, the same would be intended for the words "there" when the intended word is "they're. I just thought I share this, as these has been quite common. I think I'm getting greener here by the minutes ...
    but thank you for features like this, and I will be sure to come back for more like these
    Edited on Oct 25, 9:19 p.m. because ''.

  • BlackedAshes
    October 24, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    that was nice i loved it


  • g r e y i s m
    October 24, 2005
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    which is what I always thought, but I deferred to you since you were writing an article on punctuation. I am always unsure of myself like that. thanks for the reply.

  • Mephitic ID Synergy gold member
    October 23, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Hello euphoria. Thanks for catching my gaffe. There should not be an apostrophe there at all! One should only attach an apostrophe to a noun to denote possesion, and not for plurals, though we sometimes make an exception in the case of pluralizing akronyms and abbreviations in order to avoid the confusion of one perceiving the 's' as being part of the word.

    Mike


  • Barbara gold member
    October 23, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    I have a bad habit of not using punctuation at times Although, I do use line breaks to make the reader pause(at least I hope they do).

    When I'm at Storywrite, I am rather fond of punctuation....in fact, I insist upon it. Run-on sentences are annoying, and putting a comma in the wrong place ruins the flow of the sentence.

    A great column, and one I hope many will refer to time and time again.

  • g r e y i s m
    October 23, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    This is a nice article, and a good idea for many on allpoetry. I do have one question though:

    when you say ...English teachers avoid like the plague, because I can't seem to recall actually learning the correct use of semicolon's before I graduated I am wondering why there is an apostrophe in the word semicolon. I often see people using apostrophes when the word is not referring to possession. Is there something I am missing here?


  • misticmoonlite gold member
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    A positive punctuation class/article.hope to see more,please?
    Thank you so much for your help help tonight.. Linda


  • Axelle Black
    October 22, 2005
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    Very helpful in terms of commas. Now I'm all paranoid about my punctuation since you seem to master it perfectly. Are you going to be doing other columns on other types of punctuation? I'd love to see one on dashes. I use them a lot but I'm never sure if I do so correctly. Hmm stupid But that would be helpful. Good column


  • Mephitic ID Synergy gold member
    October 22, 2005
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    Thank you for that illustration, bellerophon. I hope I made that point with my emphasis on intention.


  • Mephitic ID Synergy gold member
    October 22, 2005
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    Thanks MoshJosh. You were right. Your example better illustrates my point.

  • bellerophon
    October 22, 2005
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    You can ignore puctuation if you feel like it, but remember that it is just another tool for communication. It is the same as deciding one day you didn't wan't to ever use the paritcles, which are words like "The" and "a", because you felt they were only constraining your poetry. Well it might be easier to leave out ____ words to part of ____ poem, but it is breaking ____ accepted rules that are ___ basis for communication. If you can still communicate your ideas then ___ rule can be broken, but it should only be done for ___ purpose.


  • mypassion
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    A very well writing utensil this is. Sometimes we all forget from time to time where a semi colon would go. Or placing commas were they should not go. Thanks for the refresher course. A lesson learned well. God Bless Brenda

  • Saraphina
    October 22, 2005
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    I have this visual of my students grabbing a handful of commas and using them much like confetti in their papers. Semicolons, too, make me crazy. I decribe it as sexy punctuation. Students think it makes them look good when it's really like a 400lb man in a speedo - he just looks ridiculous. I hope some do read this and get something out of it. I understand that poetry is freeform and many of the grammar rules don't apply, but if you're going to use punctuation, either use it right or use it creatively. Don't use it just to use it.


  • Keith
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Nice to see there are still folk flogging punctuation
    Nowadays, the comma, seems mainly, to be used, as decoration,
    And a's for the a'postrophe - well thats a complete mys'tery, as you can see,
    I wouldnt even bother with the semi-colon; to it most folk have said so-long
    I learned to punctuate mainly through fear, which is what is lacking here,
    You either care about comma's or you dont
    And many people seem to see it as their wont
    To murder English in as many way's as they can
    Inclooding lowsy spelling and versis that dinny even scan
    Still, best of luck, in your crusade
    I had nearly 30 year's of it, and at least I was payed
    But things have still continued to get worser and worser
    Who needs punkchewashun when you have a cursor?


  • MoshJosh
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply

    Stupendous

    Fantastic! I appreciate every bit of advice given to me. Your article, hopefully, will inspire others to tighten up their writing. Granted, many of the comments didn't show much hope.

    I will question your first example sentence in the comma section. It is still technically acceptable to place a comma in that sentence, it is considered by many schools of thought to be needless. "I wrote a great poem and I put it on the internet." is a sloppy sentence, comma or not. I'd suggest tightening the sentece to "I wrote a great poem and put it on the internet."

    Thanks so much for your guide. Yes, Poets do rock. Rock on.

    MoshJosh


  • IrishYndina
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    I am very glad that someone has finally been both brave enough and industrious enough to write something about grammar and punctuation. I definitely fall into your category 2 - punctuation mistakes are things I can identify, but trying to teach someone how to correct them is just too daunting. Now I can point them towards this article of yours and let them teach themselves I also agree that poets can make the conscious decision to break both grammar and punctuation rules while they're writing; in order to do so for the maximum effect and for a conscious reason, however, I feel that they need to understand how they are supposed to work in the first place. If you don't realize a line should have a comma, how can you make a statement by leaving it out? Anyways, I'm glad you took the time and effort to write this informative piece. I'm sure many poets will make good use of it! Now next, how about those pesky there, their, and they're mistakes etc lol


  • Shakari
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    This is really good for those who need help with punctuation. I feel bad, for I only read half way(is it a compound word or two separates?) through the piece.

    Usually, there is not a comma before and, but before other conjunctions. Also, remember to put commas before names are recited...etc.

    I think that your guide is very helpful.


  • Mephitic ID Synergy gold member
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Hi ToltecWarrior. I've now added a section on semicolon use to the bottom of this article.


  • ToltecWarrior
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Thanks. How about semi colon use? I am so confused about that.
    TW


  • Twisted--Rose
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    this is brilliant! it is very useful and very entertaining!! i think that I over use commas and I am glad that I have read this. thanks for your help, love from lil x x x x x x

  • roolbreaker
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    i'll just stick to the santa clause,or the no clothes clause.
    and wear only sunscreen.... i'm a dude,so that was meant to be disturbing,hee hee hee hee hee x 4!


  • IronIcecream
    October 22, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    punctuation it's just another rule
    another step away from empathy


  • EmsandAbs
    October 21, 2005
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    YAY grammar,... NOT!

    too many big words lmao..grammar scares.. i'm glad it doesnt scare other people.. i leanred ot live with the fact that i wont veer get gramamar and punctuation and that 8th grade english this year is pointles... good work on htis htough


  • KaseyL
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Alright...I know punctuation is great and all. I also know that it's used for the better of your work. BUT...poetry is not about punctuation. Many poets (not story-writers) go off the rules of punctuation in order to show their poem better..in their own way. ...I don't feel like being mean or going against you, so I won't. I"ll just say that..and be gone.


  • abernaith
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    National Punctuation Day is August 22. Celebrate it by getting up late, drinking tea, and pulling out your red marker to attack the gross misspellings and grammar crimes in the local newspaper. Later in the afternoon, have a walk down the local shops and persuade dear old Mrs. Sodenberg that her sign should read "Books for Sale" instead of "Book's Sale".

    www.nationalpunctuationday.com

    And while you're at it, check out Lynne Truss' ESL quiz here: eatsshootsandleaves.com/ESLquiz.html to see if you're a genuine punctuation stickler.

    Cheers!


  • notso shiny anymore
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    this was so very, useful, because i now, understand how to, use commas, more, appropriately, and such. just kidding. but anyway, terrific job, great explanations and exmaples!

  • Mrs. Dumas silver member
    October 21, 2005
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    Mike, this is a great thing to put out there. I know that I've made a few mistakes myself when writing and my punctuation has left much left to be desired. And I've helped people by pointing this stuff out to them but I feel weird telling them why the change is necessary because most are older than me. LOL! Great job though!

    Hugs
    Jess


  • CarterTachikawa
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Thank you for putting this column up. Alas, I did not come in with any ice cream to share but I'm leaving with tons of great advice. And I hope others do too. Nice job!

    ~CT


  • Grasshopper
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    great advice!!! thanks for the helpful info!


  • Carole Dudley
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Thank you for throwing a rope to poets thrashing around in syntax without a life jacket of proper punctuation rules. When I typed that sentence COMMA I didn't know a dependant clause from a free one. I have been forever alternation between a comma before the last item in a list and letting the "and" do the work. Thank you! More!


  • Dragon Tamer
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Thank you for the most educating lesson on commas Mike.Actually what you have really taught me, was the end stop.I always use punctuation in all my poetry except Haiku.
    When I see others without it, it looks neater, but it is hard for me to read the intent sometimes.This is a very informative and refreshing lesson for all involved in writing or reading I believe.I also liked the way you added humor into it to break up the monotony.Very well done sir.


  • Daniela Violin silver member
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    this is informative and fun...

    I don't use commas in poetry unless they are really needed
    but this was a good read and I hope it helps some people. Thanks for sharing!


  • HeavenScent4U
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Thanks Mike, very informative. However; I am kind of like Modern Mistress, I just put them in there when it feels right and if it doesn't then Oh Well LOL
    Just personal preference for me with my poems, sometimes I use them, sometimes I leave them all out


  • thelordreigns gold member
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Bravo! Excellent effort and intention! Long live the comma!

  • Mephitic ID Synergy gold member
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    That actually depends, Jessica. Let's say you're talking about things you like to eat. "I like to eat: pizza, ice cream, doughnuts, peanut butter and pickles." In this case, since you like to eat peanut butter and pickels together (trust me, you do), "peanut butter and pickles" is one item. Since you do not have to put "and" before the last item in a list in every case, the aforementioned statement is correctly written!

    Mike

  • PerfectStranger
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Thank you for that little tid-bit of information. I always did get confused with listing things. For example: bread, milk, cheese & butter. I thought that's how it was suppose to go instead of putting a comma after cheese. You learn something new everyday!

    ~Jessica~


  • Topaz135 gold member
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    You left out the rarely used gapping comma.

    A gapping comma is used to prevent a repetition that would make the sentence unwieldly and it shows that there are words left out.


    Consider this:

    Unknown Athletic came top of the Honourable Relics Over-50's Antiquarian Football League Cup list and Manchester Disunited came bottom of the Honourable Relics Over-50's Antiquarian Football League Cup list.

    against this:

    Unknown Athletic came top of the Honourable Relics Over-50's Antiquarian Football League Cup list and Manchester Disunited, came bottom.

    Your 'clause' commas are know to me as bracketing commas and are always used to mark a weak interruption.
    They always come in pairs. If the weak interruption occurs at the start or at the end of a sentence one of them is not shown, but it must be assumed. The key point is that if the interruption is removed the sentence still makes sense.

    Starting with the comma makes sense as this is the most misunderstood punctuating symbol.
    Nice article


  • SeanJ
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Im glad you put in that bit about INTENTION!

    Recognizing first your own specific intent, and second the relative fluidity of grammar (and therefore puncuation) and words in the ultra-fluid context of poetry is pretty important, too.

    Learning the rules makes for a more effective breaking of them; after that, its all just civaling on the ninth part of a hair.


  • Whispered Devotions
    October 21, 2005
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    I agree with Modern Mistress, I just write. I put commas only in the parts that just can not go without them. I use commas to seperate lists, when I use and, so, or but, and when I have two different sentences in the same line. I got a comment saying that I wrote a perfect poem except it needed all this puncuation to guide a reader. I end a line at a certain place because that is where it ends, how much more guidance do you need. Like at the top where you took out the commas and ended the line instead, that is how I write; however, the person was polite and had a honarable request, so I added puncuation to it. It doesn't sound right to me now, but hey atleast people have that guidance needed to read a poem.


  • Claide
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Enjoyed this.


  • cherche -d -ame
    October 21, 2005
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    Thanks for the lesson Mike . I have done away with most punctuation in poetry, however I try using it correctly in a story or article.I believe that if the author wants to use punctuation in a poem , if he/she reads the poem out aloud...it should be very helpful as where to place it.( Unless of course they are speedreaders whose mouths go a mile a minute even in speech without taking a breath .
    Reenie

  • zara
    October 21, 2005
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    The comma error I see most is that of inserting commas where they don't belong. I think a guideline could be, "When in doubt, don't use a comma." Though there would be errors, there would be fewer of them. I often point out punctuation mistakes - I call myself the nitpick queen - and most of the time people say they appreciate it. Sometimes, though, they argue for "creative freedom."

    Anyhow, thanks for this well written article; I hope it helps a lot of people.


  • EchoNChaos2U
    October 21, 2005
    Edit | Reply

    Great

    Thank you for posting this Punctuation on commas. It's a great help to me when using commas of great pauses, as I like to call them.


  • -BlackKnight- gold member
    October 21, 2005
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    1.I wrote a great poem
    2.and I put it on the internet.
    -- Technically, this sentence doesn't need a comma anyway, because the "and I" continues the sentence without any awkward pauses. If one removed the "I," then the need for a comma would decline even more.

    I was taught through middle school all the way through high school that, if one compiles a list that consists of exactly three items, to not use a comma to separate the second and third items listed. If the list has just two items, then there is no need for a comma, but that's obvious. If a list exceeds three items, then your example holds true.

    I think a third possible situation is required for the beginning of this column: some folks (like me) are just too lazy to point out every punctuation error we see .
    Edited on Oct 21, 12:09 because ''.

  • Calvin-n-Hobbes
    October 21, 2005
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    I think you can write an article about possessives, I see locopoco poets like me make many mistakes like putting an apostrophe with it, or an abstract noun...

    Calvin


  • Simply Ashley
    October 21, 2005
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    Mike, Thank you for posting. This will be helpful to many.
    ashley

  • Bob the Elder
    October 21, 2005
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    always good to have someone post something educational


  • Mephitic ID Synergy gold member
    October 21, 2005
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    LilMissMuffet, thank you SO much! Man was that cake on my face!


  • Violet Moodswing Greeters member
    October 21, 2005
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    Lol, very reminiscent of --See Dick Run. See Dick chase Spot. Run Spot run!-- I think many of us live in fear of the comma splice. It gave me my first interest in e. e. cummings poetry. I am not the queen of grammar and punctuation so I generally direct my comments toward visual effect and readability. A few days ago I saw a comment on someones stuff telling him of grammatical and punctuation errors. I had to laugh when the author informed them he thought he would leave it as is since his English Teacher proofread it for him and told him it was correct. That in itself slightly explained my own confusion.

    Thanks for the piece and for writing it in a manner that lets us smile.


  • Always Deena
    October 21, 2005
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    I always just write. If I feel a comma coming on, I don't fight it...I just go with the flow. LOL
    Well taught Mike
    Deena


  • TanyaB
    October 21, 2005
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    "A really long list of INdependent clauses creates a feeling of..."

    Moderately useful column, I agree with some of it, don't totally agree with other parts of it. For example, "Always use a comma before the last item on a list" is not a requirement. As a person who has written and or edited her fair share of scientific reports, articles and such, I can tell you that this is not a rule. There are two schools of thought on that particular matter, so you can really go either way.


  • Barb Davidson silver member
    October 21, 2005
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    Very informative but i can't help thinking the people who need this aren't going to be your readers


  • Sylvyrwyng gold member
    October 21, 2005
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    I like this! It nice to have someone who recognizes a need and puts it in. This is great info and will help many. Thanks a bunch!

  • Malzy
    October 21, 2005
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    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Lol This took me back to highschool and junior high school. But in reality, it wasn't that bad, I actually learned a few things that wouldn't hurt me. Also, I think I'm going to link this column to a few people, it wouldn't hurt them either!
    Well it looks like I got my lesson of the day today, even though its like five in the flippin morning and come noon I would have forgotten about it, BUT thats not the point!!


  • MysticalMelindy
    October 21, 2005
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    I'm a freshman in college, and it's amazing how many people have troubles with simple commas! Great write, very informative; I'm sure it'll help a lot of people.

  • LustNPleasure
    October 21, 2005
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    Lmao I think this is all common knowledge and printed all over the internet. I don't think they can send you to jail for using something everyone else uses also

    Carol

    "sends him some soap on a rope"
    Edited on Oct 21, 5:23 because ''.

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