Ditch the ads, upload images and much more - upgrade today from 5.95/month!
Read Contests Groups Learn Forums Store Help
 

Don't Improve, You Might Get Better- comments on comments

Apparently seriousness is based on how many [or how often] people die in your writes! Of course?! How could I have missed that? And to think I had been wasting
Before writing this I inquired to make sure it is within site policy. I received the clearance! Some quotes are direct while others are paraphrased

A Comment on Comments

Commenting is an important part of what Allpoetry stands for, in fact that is one of the giant pillars of the site. Now having that said, I recently commented on some writes that hadn’t capitalized the letter “I”. Simple as that. Some IM messages flew back and forth from there on and some disturbing conversation erupted.

The writer had decided that since Allpoetry posts aren’t school or anything of the sort and capitalization and proper grammar is annoying. Interesting, sounds like someone needs another letter to pass their English class . But all jokes aside, grammar in poetry and caps aren’t important…but they help make a person look and sound smarter. Credibility is all an author has; which helps breed talent. In response to that I (to quote myself)  started off by saying:

“There's no shame in using caps and proper grammar. Poetry is all about communicating and I'm sure you want to communicate intelligently... whether it be school or not. You'll be taken more seriously if you care about these things. Trust me on this one. It got me far”.

Isn’t writing skill important if you want to write? Most people want to improve their skills. But alas some would rather eat stones or throw them. This person’s response was “trust me--i'm sure i'm takin serious--all my stuff (with the exception of a few poems) someone always dies/is going to die--i'm sure i'm taken seriously and nope--idc if i have an intellegent conversation--i'm not exactly intellegent”. Apparently seriousness is based on how many [or how often] people die in your writes! Of course?! How could I have missed that? And to think I had been wasting my time with my nose in grammar books and dictionaries! Further more I must have been wasting my time listening to my critics- the ones that know what they are talking about and it is quite clear by how they communicate and what they have said!

My goodness…where have I been? It’s so dark and cold in here… dark… cold… can’t see new trends and skills fading…

Coherence is treason.

Continuing on, the clever response I had was “just because someone dies in your poem doesn't mean you'll be taken seriously. There's a much higher chance of getting mocked around here. You just need to know where to look lol.

in order to be taken seriously, you need to have a focus and dedication. Respect comes with true skills and perfecting those skills beyond your own interest is a gain”. Which is very much true. If you know how to present your writing and weave your words coherently, people will continue to read! If you converse with your critics in an intelligent manner they might ease up, after all, I don’t always agree with my critics- I tell them and do little to nothing about certain suggestions. That’s my right. I’ll do as I please, but more often than not, I listen to my critics; they catch errors or inconsistencies that I miss. Being a good editor and being a progressive poet, I need to listen. After all, I can hear everything and I certainly don’t see everything.

I think growth is important. I think it is very important. I think that people that listen to their critics (even with a grain of salt) are progressive poets. People that take classes here are progressive poets, people that edit their own works or ask for help, they are progressive poets too. Anything that puts you ahead is progression- even if you do it alone.

I might not be the most respected poet or have the biggest groups of fans and followers or off-the-charts hits to my poetry here, but at least I’m coherent enough to be read and generally listened to.

Perhaps commenting is a lost cause for some, which is indeed sad, but it’s not the first and not the last either.

Conversations like that really bother me. I want to grow, I want to improve and I certainly want to help people get better, but I think those that don’t want help or won’t even try- are beyond help. They are just passed the recycle bin- as recycling is useful and even recycling their work still isn’t useful either.

Sadly, some people write and expect glory.
I’d like to watch them write on American/ Canadian Idol [writer’s edition]. The responses would be stellar.
I was unsure about quoting instant messages here and some conversation inspired this write. I also sent it to have it "pre-scanned" for correctness hehe

Included in the list

Add a comment

    : Comment:

Comments

1 - 17 of 17
  • rhyana
    April 28, 2006
    Edit | Reply
    i agree with some of what is written here. correct spelling and consistant tenses always make a person appear more intelligent, regardless of what is written (excepting pieces spoofing pore speling).

    on the other hand, poetry is my creative outlet and appearance is as important as content in the final project. to be frank, i dislike the way caps break up the visual flow of some of my pieces. same thing with punctuation, particularly if i have a stanza that can be read three different ways depending on where the periods go. unless content dictates it must be set in stone, i prefer to leave it to the reader to decipher.

    personally, i find caps to be rather smug nuisances, especially I, and use them only when absolutely necessary. perhaps these words 'seem' less intelligent for their lack, it's a matter of opinion. if my content flows, someone will read. i've yet to meet a person who criticized my work more harshly than i already do, a considerably more irritating issue. for that matter, no one has even complained about the lack of caps/punctuation yet. :\


    Edited on Apr 28, 2:05 because ''.

  • amaranth816
    August 4, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Arg! Closed-minded people make me so angry!!! Those of us who do take critiquing seriously are rather offended when people basically tell us to go away for voicing our opinion that their work is less than absolutely perfect. Caution: steer clear of rushdelivery (he is one of those!)

    I also believe in the validity of grammar and all that "junk". If I can't understand what you wrote, then I'm just going to give up and consider it trash! But, of course, that's so "school-ish". And I can see their point. But with this prevailing opinion, I, a staunch follower of the rules of grammar except when it makes me sound stuffy, feel preppy when I write like this, with caps and decent spelling and all that stuff. But isn't this easier to read? Isn't this more "professional", and isn't that what many of these amateur writers are aspiring to? (arg... preposition...)

    I could rant all day, but I don't think anything will change. I comfort myself by thinking that many of these writers will forever remain unpublished. I just hope that this literary era is not characterized by bad grammar and conventions, as well as shoddy rhyming and a tendency toward the cliche...

    I shall stop now. Goodnight, fellow poets, hope I haven't been too boring and teacherish...

    Kyla
    Edited on Aug 04, 11:07 p.m. because ''.

  • I-Like-Rhymes gold member
    June 18, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    I know i've already spoken here but I have just had a personal experience that I think fits here.
    Last night I read a column on AP attacking rhymes which said in clear and unambiguous words that if it rhymed it was not poetry. It also said that there would never be anyone as good as Shakespeare and Coleridge at rhyming so nobody should do it anymore.
    At the end where those 3 words Add a comment.

    I typed out a fairly cogent and POLITE response in defence of rhymes but acknowledging the vale of blank verse too. 25 minutes of keyboard pecking which would have done well in my current class.
    The author deleted my comment and sent me a posting which said, again in clear and unambiguous words, if you don't agree with me don't write here go and write somewhere else.
    Another example of someone with a closed mind who is not prepared to allow people to debate both sides of an argument (or however many sides there might be).
    Oh and what really annoys me is by deleting it from his column it is deleted from my critique list too and I wrote it all off the cuff! Boo Hoo.
    Rant over. The moral is. Save your work becauuse some other s.o.b. might delete it.
    Jim S

  • Emerald13
    June 17, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    An excellent column and all too true that these days, far too many youngsters coming out of university have no idea of sentence structure, grammar and cannot even spell correctly. All important, as you say, in being heard and gosh, how can it not be important for aspiring writers, young and old-er. >>> EM

  • lavender shadows
    June 16, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Great column! I couldn't agree more. I've had some near-disputes over grammatical & punctuation suggestions. Like you said, if the poets wants to be taken seriously, they should write properly. Just because this isn't English class doesn't mean that you shouldn't write properly. (I love the quote saying that because lots of people die in their poetry means that the poet will be taken seriously! That's hilarious!)

    I'll quote myself on what I said once about critiques:
    I find that critical critiques are probably the most effective way of improving your work. When you write, you can only really see the poem from your perspective, the poet's perspective. However, when others read it, they bring a new point of view to the poetry. I personally ADORE it when people critique my work. I really don't care if they hate the poem, as long as they say what they didn't like about it and preferably leave suggestions for improvement. One thing that's important to remember when reading somebody's critiques of your poem is that they are not you, they have different opinions, have different life experience and don't necessarily understand your poem as well as you do. YOU are the poet, so all suggestions/comments are for you to take or leave. You DON'T have to agree with the critiquer, you can think that the poem is amazing, whilst the other may think it's not. Every poem has positive aspects, and also some that could be improved. It is the job of the critiquer not only to point out those that could be improved but also those that are really great so that the poet has a baseline.

    I would really enjoy to see a version of literary Canadian/American idol! That would be hilarious!

    Anyhow, I think I've blabbed on for long enough! Great column!

    ~lavender shadows~

  • I-Like-Rhymes gold member
    June 15, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Your remarks echo much of what I have felt since arriving at this site last month.
    I anticipate and encourage criticism of my work because I have a lot to learn. However in order for me to respect the criticism it has got to be in a form that indicates the author is experienced enough to give valid criticism and, rightly or wrongly, if it is badly spelt, uses text-talk or foul-mouthed utterings then it carries no weight with me.
    The appearance of these faults in the writers original posting can be excused if their target audience is simply a group of like minded individuals but not if it is posted for all to view.
    Perhaps we need a morons only category.
    I try to write criticisms (or should that be critiques) of the pieces I view but much of it is so poor, according to my understanding of poetry, that the only accurate criticism would be "This stinks couldn't you have written..." followed by a line by line re-write. I ignore those.
    When I do pass a comment and point out what I consider to be an error I try to suggest an improvement. I hope we can all agree that's the way to go.
    I'm getting away from commenting on your piece to air my own views. Sorry.
    You wrote - You'll be taken more seriously if you care about these things - meaning caps and proper grammar. Or should that be Capital Letters not caps. Either way I agree entirely. A positive image is important to respect and thus to self respect.
    I applaud your attitude to criticism particularly where you say it is your right to ignore them. Act on the good, reject the bad, debate the rest via an instant-message. (Is im text-speak?)
    If a suggestion has merit I edit my work unlike the poet I commented on today to suggest a slight modification to the first rhyme in an otherwise great piece who messaged back to me to the effect that she noticed the weakness when she posted it a couple of years ago but doesn't bother correcting once it is posted!
    Finally a criticism, or question. In your penultimate paragraph, shouldn't it be past the re-cycle bin and not passed? If you have a gradation of usefulness I think past is preferable.
    Jim S
    PS could we suggest to The-Powers-That-Be that the section on add a poem requesting criticism be left blank for the poet to fill in if desired. That way we wouldn't waste messages to those who don't want to know?
    Jim
  • QuinnTessEntity
    June 15, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Happy to share, Kryspin:
    http://allpoetry.com/Poem/1068493
    Edited on Jun 15, 5:05 because ''.
  • Too Much To Bear
    June 15, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    hello. neh funky funky column. yes, people invariabley either moan, ignore me or block me from commenting when i don't like their work. if i tell someone i think they write a load of crap i will never say so without some reasons.... which i always hope will be taken as constructive crit. but unfortunately i find a lot of writers can't except that not everyones opinions are the same... or atleast believe this makes the minoritys, or those they don't agree with, less valid. even if one doesn't agree, one should still except an opinion as such. by their nature, opinions should be exempt from clasification as 'wrong'. infact i'm wrong... i remember writing for ages about a shit poem... and the author replyed gratefully for my analysis of why it was shit. then a friend of theirs IMd me ranting about how i knew nothing.... and was just jealous... and vindictive.. except they used a much shorter word i can't remember. anyway. you=point well made.and as someone else said, you did a better job than i would've with not being nasty.

  • -BlackKnight- gold member
    June 15, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    Hmmm...wonder where you got this idea from?? Just kidding .

    Good column; couldn't say I agree more when it comes to using correct spelling and proper grammar in a poem.

  • John Yelling
    June 15, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    I agree with everything you said here. I have always appreciated a comment that pointed out spelling mistakes or those having to do with grammar. I would like my poems and my writing overall to be taken seriously, so always find it helpful when people take the time to comment constructively.

    This is very well written and I think you got your point across perfectly. Well Done!

  • kryspin
    June 14, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    that I would like to read. send me the link
  • QuinnTessEntity
    June 14, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    I think that part of the problem with how criticism is received by many people is the fact that so few people really, tulyy critique the work of others. The unwritten rule of commenting seems to be "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". That, and I suspect that there are many people who when the check the 'critical review' box on the add poem page do so with the expectation that they will be told how great their work is, even if it may not be.

    I think that in order for criticisms to be taken more seriously, they collective attitude towards it must be improved. If you don't want an honest assesment of your work,o constructive advice on your work, don't ask for it. If you do ask for it, don't be offended if someone tells you that in their opinion, it's not good. Granted, opinions a tastes vary, but at least consider what you are being told.

    (Oddly enough, I wrote a cheeky piece espousing almost the exact opposite sentiments regarding punctation and grammer - which I am not sure people understood to be a joke...)

    Nice column.

  • kryspin
    June 14, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    thank you Vickie J- greatly appreciated

  • kryspin
    June 14, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    You can tell eh?! haha let's go Canoeing!

    if you ever go to the ottawa market, get some beaver tail- I almost did. I wasn't sure if it was real tail or some kind of candy. I was too frightened to wander closer!

  • Ogreatbaldone gold member
    June 14, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    ..and I can tell you one thing , I dont want simon critiquing anything of mine, I just know I'd go over the judges table after him

  • Vickie J
    June 14, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    I think you made some very good points here and if a person really wants to improve they would be wise to heed your advice.
    You did this in a very tactful and tasteful manner. I am out of applauses, but I do applaud you on this informative write. clap clap clap ~vj

  • Ogreatbaldone gold member
    June 14, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    I agree, commenting and the feedback are cornerstones for this site, I have been to other poetry sites and none offer the kind of interaction this site does, this is well worded and spoken without malice and makes a very good point, I applaud your diplomacy in this and recent events, it is nice to see- of course you ARE canadian ...peace
1 - 17 of 17