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Spam and Point grabbing

The implications and rules regadrding
spam and "point grabbing"

I think it is time that we all addressed the issue of spam and point grabbing here on AllPoetry.  

The problem being that a lot of members use forms of spam and point grabbing to try and gain points in critiques.  It has to be said though that it has also been seen in the chatterbox and on author pages where points are not gained.

 


So what is spam?

 


The best definition I have found so far is as follows:
"Internet spam is one or more unsolicited messages, sent or posted as part of a larger collection of messages,
all having substantially identical content."

(Source - www.monkeys.com/spam-defined/ accessed 10/07/2004)

It has been the case in the past that many people have sent spam IM messages to many poets, usually asking for comments.  While this may be acceptable between friends, sending these sort of messages to others is against site rules.

Spamming in the chatterbox is also against site rules.  We have a very limited space for the chatterbox and regular users I am sure will agree that even a little spam can be extremely annoying.

 


Not only is spam an annoyance to many, it is in many people's eyes a dishonest and "lazy" way of trying to gain points in critiques.

We are an interactive community and we do encourage comments on other peoples work but at the same time we hope to improve peoples
skills and help them better themselves in their work by leaving encouraging and useful comments.

 


"Point grabbing" as it has been dubbed is the use of extended words for example, "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW" which is unnecessary in critiques on this site.

It is very commonplace and there are more than enough words in the dictionary to express your feelings on a piece of work, without the use of extremely elongated words.  You'd probably earn more points by trying to engage with the piece you are reading and putting your feelings into more accurate words.

Another form of point grabbing is the technique of copying and pasting large sections or stanzas in a poem to form your critique.  The poet knows what they have written - so I am sure you don't need to remind them. A more appropriate response would perhaps be:

"I felt like I could relate a lot to line 4, stanza 3."

 


Spam and what I have described as point grabbing is not acceptable on AllPoetry or any of it's sister sites.  Anyone can report excessive spam and point grabbing to a moderator who will more than happy to check it out.

 


Please be aware of what you are posting to avoid being penalised.

 


Moderators can issue penalties in the form of fining points, deletion of comments and if the case warrants it a ban from the site.

 


Thanks for reading.  I hope this has cleared up a few points.

 

If anyone has any questions or additions they'd like to see please IM me as they may get lost in critiques.

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Comments

1 - 99 of 106     1 2  next >  (show all)

  • Stevie.me
    July 23
    Edit | Reply

    Thank You

    Thank you, like me some people may not have been aware that what they were doing was actual spam or point grabbing. I appreciate the insight so that i can do better


  • Black-Moon
    April 2, 2005
    Edit | Reply
    This column is both good and bad. First of all, when you said IMing and asking for comments, did you mean advertising? Or did you mean asking for comments without even reading the poem. I disagree with some of your points.I don't know all my poems off by heart, and "section 3, stanza 1" etc. I would have to look for. Repeating a line will not necessarily earn you points. Many a critique have I posted that was not rewarded with points.

  • Edge of Dreams
    August 20, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Another type of spam/point grabbing is copy-pasting an internet article when you could just put the address.


  • August 19, 2004
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    why would anyone waste his or her time spamming a poem to gain points...when all that is to be gained is 5 measly points? does this really happen? and am i so stupid that i do not even realize it is happening?

    this is so funny. i mean, who cares?


  • Pierre Richards
    July 28, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I find that many will come to my featured posts, and one or two will comment and the rest just get the points. But when I go to others, and leve comments, I seldom ever get any points even when the poem is still on the featured list. So I don't understand this. How can one point grab when it is so hard to get points except for some?


  • Ember Rose
    July 28, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Thanks for pointing this out and I guess I am as guilty as the next without meaning to be. Mostly from overexuberance than anything, or the lack of time to count lines and stanza's. Having no personal computer, the library allows only 55 minutes total time (this incl. waiting for pages to slowly show up) per person, per day. While at my friend's work place, I will sometimes have loads of time, most times not...as I am trying to help her catch up and learning quickbooks in the process. At my kids' house...constant interruptions to the point that I lose all train of thought...lol. I shall try harder on that. Thanks for showing this. Rose


  • UncleSpace
    July 22, 2004
    Edit | Reply

    That's the ticket!

    Woww...where to begin? I agree with the people who've basically said that "spamming" is such a relatively small negative effect of such a cool system, that it's not worth the energy to get so upset about it.

    The points, no matter how they are acquired, always go back into what really amounts to being part of content, i.e. Promoted Poems, Contests, promoting other's poems, and giving extra applauses. If we were to eliminate Points, that also would be a big loss of revenue and potential greater future revenue too, for example: $25 for 1000 pts. I am more than happy to buy some points when I can, but I'm glad that I can earn some without spending money. We can't only allow purchasers of points to promote poems of course.

    If any of this were to happen, traffic would drop off dramatically, and poem postings would too, because it will be much harder to get people to read your stuff if you can't Promote in the Featured column, so people will post less, that's a major reason WHY people post here at AP, so they can find readers, you can only ask your friends and families to read your stuff or listen to you read it so often, if you even want to at all.

    AP used to give maybe 10 or 7 points max to a comment, now it's only 5, even if the person writes an amazingly excellent professional-type critique a page long. I think this is the threshhold, any "Maximum" points less than 5 would be hurting the majority of commenters (who are legitimate) the most, which is too much of a price to pay to penalize a relatively few amount of "Spammers". Traffic and participation would drop.

    If "SOMETHING SIMPLY MUST BE DONE!", then my suggestion would be for the CSA (Central Spam Authority) to leave offending Spammers a tough sounding, sorta nasty message, that accuses them of "Spamming" and that if they are cited the next time, a big scarlet "CS" (Comment Spammer) or "PS" (Point Stealer) will be put at the top of their Author's page for one week as a symbol of shame and humiliation. This way, all except the most anarchic, anti-social, rebel Spammers will be embarrassed into adapting properly accepted Commenting Behavior.

    Bad Spammer, Bad!

    USpace
    Edited on Jul 22, 11:57 p.m. because 'spelling, grammar, and sentence structure'.


  • joshuadobbs
    July 14, 2004
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    woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow, you're so smart.


  • Lindycountess
    July 14, 2004
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    first of all, be extrememly proud of me that i did not write a spam or 'point grabber' in this comment, just to get a rise out of people. i am extremely tempted.

    second, i thought the purpose of AllPoetry was to share work, interact with other poets and, hopefully, enjoy doing both. i dont think the point system detracts from these aims. if people feel that earning points for comments lowers them and their craft, then pay no attention to the points. despite what some may hope, most of the memebers of this site are writers in their spare time. they write something they are proud of, and decide to post it. poetry is probably not the end-all, be-all of their existence. to give it such status would be pretentious and do a disservice to poet and poem alike.

    yes, people abuse the system. but it would be like punishing the entire class for one unruly student to take it away.

    i think this column brought up many good points (da dum tschhh). i refrain from spamming, and i encourage my friends on here to do the same. i find it dull and frustrating. but sometimes, you want to be silly with your friends and make an absurd comment. i see no harm in this. we probably should use the IM system instead of being 'dishonest' by posting a comment and possibly earning points for it. but, i will work on that. this column has made me see the light! thank you.


  • almost alex
    July 13, 2004
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    wow... I never even thought about this kinda stuff... of course, I takes alot to make me comment... so I guess I wouldnt have.

  • almost alex
    July 13, 2004
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    wow... I never even thought about this kinda stuff... of course, I takes alot to make me comment... so I guess I wouldnt have.


  • BebeMcD
    July 13, 2004
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    i don't think that the problem is the points, its the people abusing them.....so how about if anyone reads a comment that is 'grabbing points' to let a mod know.....i think the points are fun...if they are earned honestly.......thanks for the column
    -laura


  • Smilingspider
    July 13, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    There will always be those that abuse whatever system is used, look at some of the commenters here, commenting on a piece about spam comments yet their post and critique numbers are near enough the same! Makes you realise that there are many abusers here abusing different parts of the whole. One day, maybe, just maybe, the whole will not be here anymore.


    Pb
    Edited on Jul 13, 5:15 because ''.


  • kyew
    July 12, 2004
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    I think copying a stanza or two to show a change in it is acceptable. I'm not gonna type all that out just to show what word I would have changed.

    as for spelling errors, stating the line it's in is fine. but trying to explain how something would sound different if another word were used... it's better to show the person than to try to explain where it is in the poem and how it will sound different.

    I'm not here for points anyway. there WERE no points when I started here. there wasn't even the old star system when I first came here. it was a community of poets that enjoyed reading and commenting on other people's poems.

    I can see the use of the point system- it generates income for kevin so that he can keep this site in good shape. things are always changing here and, though I think some of the changes are not for the best, I like change in general. I'm a prefered member because I want to support the site but I don't feel that uber membership is enough of a jump up to justify the extra money I would be spending. that's just my opinion.

    I'm always refering people to this site. I didn't used to because it was a small site and I liked that about it. but now, it's grown and there's no going back so why not tell people about it?


  • July 12, 2004
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    I think my proposal of abolishing the point system (see above) is pertinent to the topic of this column in its premise. The premise to my proposal is that the point system is inherently incompatible with a poetry site in that it encourages a 'commercial' approach ("gaining points", "spending points") that should not represent the drive for reading or commenting but that indeed becomes so. In other words if somebody exploits the system that's because the system (and the mentality that it encourages) determines the exploitation.

    One more consideration: how spread-out is this "exploitation" anyway?!? I mean I have a feeling that over various thousands people maybe just a few "exploit" the system. SO what?! (as also another reader said). Probably this column was started just for a self-complacent rigour.

    Yet I think the point system is a nonsense. But really if you want to keep it, be the first to think it is not a big deal if somebody exploits it, it is the price paid for its nature.

    Instead of playing the part of cops (which really to me is a waste of time in this case), I would suggest you carry out a "cultural action" in order to have people understand what really matters (see my first comment regarding acting on the "environment" with extra opportunities and initiatives)


  • Faded silver member
    July 12, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Point grabbing... where do we draw the line? When does something change from a thoughtful critique to a shameless attempt to grab points by copy/pasting?

    I am the first to admit that I am guilty of c+ping a couple of a lines of a poem or perhaps even an entire short stanza if I thought that it stood out in some way or another. Usually, this is followed by an in-depth explanation of why these were my favourite lines but not always. Sometimes I'll just point out that they were my favourite and use a single line to explain why.

    Am I now a point grabber? Do I deserve to be banned from the site for offering a poet my opinion on which lines appealed to me the most, even if I can't always isolate the reasons why?

    I have tried your suggestion of eliminating c+p by referring to actual stanzas or lines. I tend to do this when going through line by line (the progression is then easy to follow) but many poems are free-form and too long to comment on a single line and then expect the poet to go through and count through until they reach that particular line.

    Admittedly, it irritates me when somebody does a long 'wooooooow' or copys almost my entire poem, followed by 'i love this' but it is one of the prices that I am happy to pay to have other people copy short sections in their comments in an attempt to isolate them so as to comment on them in-depth.

    And now I'm rambling.


  • Hearta
    July 12, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    (sorry i'm commenting again) but i'm kind of shocked that some of you are so 'strict-minded'. I am but just one person, one opinion.. and as annoying as it is to see spam - who cares? Since when can't you be the better person to look over it. Maybe I just haven't had to deal with any spammers yet. and i've been a part of this site over a year now (i think). If someone wants to write a comment surrounded in tildes on one of my poems or 3 lines of happy faces - go ahead.

    Maybe I just need more information. Will we run out of points someday if some point grabber steals them all? lol.. sounds funny but i'm sincerely asking. If not - who cares? Are they taking points away from someone more respectful? I agree everything you mentioned in your collumn is annoying and ugly to see - but i have a 7 year old.. i've learned to tone out things like that i guess *shrugs* I just think maybe some of these comments are a little too serious and people should lay off a bit. let people be people. and we're all different: cultures, minds, speaking techniques, ages, writing techniques. I'm a big believer in 'being yourself' while at the same time respecting others. live and let live.

    one small point - someone mentioned something about moderators choosing poems to promote. although that isn't a totally bad idea - i don't personally like that as the 'only' option. i have a feeling i may never get 'promoted'. i like having the option to promote my own work and it would nice to see someone liked it enough to think it was worthy of sharing. so not a totally bad idea.. just don't like favortism and/or pick n choosey type things all the time. k i'm shutting up now.
    Edited on Jul 12, 4:50 p.m. because 'wrong happy face tee hee'.


  • Nyx Iscariot
    July 12, 2004
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    Nice, there are so many times i'll be browsing when i'll come across a wonderful poem, and then...a few inches down, i'll come across it again! with some piddly comment of "oh i loved this" and then the whole poem.

    i can understand taking a few lines out, (which i am guilty of occasionally doing) and then making a response to it, but the whole thing? and by response i mean a detailed one, where you put forth both feeling and input.

    Nice post Nurse!

    N...


  • TanyaB
    July 12, 2004
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    I've also noticed a lot of people will put in a long string of symbols like ~ or * to kinda frame their response, another point grabber...thanks for posting this.


  • angelica silver member
    July 12, 2004
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    Please don't abolish the point system, this site is the best site I have come across. I agree with Sanity, it would take the initiative out of even running a class, and it encourages poets to run contests. The initiative would be gone, this is a wonderful site, I spend a lot of time on here, most of the points I earn are given back in contests, promoting friends work and applauding and it takes me a long time to re build them again to give away again.angelica


  • sanity
    July 12, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I joined this site without ever knowing anything about it, no one recommended me to it so I had to find out all about it when I joined. The points system is a wonderful thing, it enables youngsters especially but all of us to try things that maybe we would never try before, such as the classes, would there be classes if the system was abolished, these classes that are set up help those that do them to try new forms and better improve their poetry, There are a lot of people I know that actually buy points, so it helps to support the site, there is one thing about the points system I think could be sorted, the featured box, maybe the moderators could randomly choose some poets and promote them themselves, maybe actually that would stop a lot of the spamming. Anyway I have put my thoughts down, others will probably disagree.

    take care

    sanity


  • NurseHayley
    July 12, 2004
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    If you really feel strongly about this it is Kevin you should speak to. He owns and runs this site and is responsible for any changes.

    Just as a side note - people may not like the system but it is what is being used at present. This column is designed to try and tackle constant rule breaking by some not to initiate change of any sort. That is a seperate matter.


  • July 12, 2004
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    Personally I think a poetry site should attract users not because of a Monopoly-like system in place likely to create regressive addiction, mercantilism and misuse, but because it provides interesting opportunities to learn and exchange opinions with others. It is a matter of what attitude you really want to encourage.

    PROPOSAL: Therefore I believe the direction to take should be to abolish the point system (which makes me cringe for its, frankly, childish and or/supermarket-coupon-like nature) and IMPROVE the 'environment' in terms of maturity of proposals, cultural events, occasions to learn, exchange, read, and yeah even chat (but with a different more effective chat system). And contests can be run even without points, recognition is sufficient.
    Edited on Jul 12, 1:50 because ''.


  • Desiree Darkk
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    "I am sure if you can come up with an alternative that Kevin would be glad to hear it - I do not deal with those aspects of the site - I only help to reinforce the rules and policies as they stand today."



    You think Kevin would be glad to hear it? lol. Okay.
    You don't deal with those aspects of the site and neither do I. He knows the system is flawed, let him work it out himself but in the meanwhile, don't be outraged or shocked that there are those who exploit the system when nothing is being done to change it and everything is done to support it.
    Edited on Jul 11, 11:21 p.m. because ''.


  • July 11, 2004
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    If you don't want people to get points then you need to eliminate the point system. That isn't hard is it?

  • Odyssey
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    What a GREAT comment J London. I hadn't even really thought of it like that, but yeah, the site itself encourages spaming by having the points system in place. It's not everyday a comment opens your eyes, but that one did.

    Having said that, I'm all for supporting the site so that it is there to read and share poetry. For me, I support the site financially because I enjoy the ability to read and share - and I know my contribution helps to maintain it (plus all the cool uber goober stuff is just plain fun). So I agree with you about the points, but I don't mind handing money over for something I consider entertainment (although I often wonder just how viable a commercial interest it is )...
    Since I don't comment for points, I comment because it helps me improve my own writing, and I enjoy giving feedback and analyzing what I am reading - I'm sure you might agree, you get a lot more out of the experience than just points when you go to the effort of trying to give a proper critique.
    Edited on Jul 11, 9:05 p.m. because ''.

  • Loveable Cherub
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I don't see why it is wrong to just leave a little note that says, "I like it," or "Well written." If the comment is too small no points are rewarded.
    I, personally, don't even care about the points. I came here to write and read poetry, and that's what I do. Somewhere it says that you should comment on two other poems each time you post one of your own to build community. This may also be to blame for the spamming.
    I agree with J London. (And Woodworm, to an extent )
    Cherub


  • MagicLady silver member
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I have recently been running contests for people who do not have trophys. I am on my 8th contest. One of the rules is for them to make comments on two different authors in their authors box. If this is not done, I send them a genreic message explaining what they did not do and how to fix it. I am running these contests for them to WIN a trophy, not to be rude. I have had some comments about being rude and a point grabber. But those who do follow the rules, I follow up with another comment, usually longer. No point grabber there. I just don't have time to type a reminder to everyone.
    I guess sometimes there are exceptions.
    But I hate when I get comments like everyone is talking about.
    Filled with !!!!!!! and ** and then a keep penning!!

    Thanks for the great column, it is the first time I have read one since I have been a member.

    Cheryl
    Edited on Jul 11, 7:50 p.m. because ''.


  • July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Perhaps we might also fine poets who write elongated poems, the poetical equivalent of Woooooow (without the elegant palindromic symmetry). There are many of them about, oh yes.





  • Hoosierpoet silver member
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I totally disagree with the proposal by some to eliminate the point system. I have belonged to a number of other poetry sites, where the point system is not in place, and believe me, they are dead sites compared to this one. The point system, along with the many contests that are sponsored through the point system, are what make this site so popular. It is a great incentive by many to read and comment on other people's work. Yes, the system is abused by some who are out to grab points without giving the poems proper attention, or without using their perceptive powers to truly analize the poems, but those people seem to be the minority. We can all help make this site a success if we keep our eyes open and report those that abuse the system.

    Respectfully,
    Moses

  • Hearta
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    oii... Well first thing. I agree with J London and Hollow Echo.

    2nd thing. (and NurseHayle please don't take this personal or toward you in anyway, you just opened the door for me to speak my mind on this topic) *deep breath* ok..

    I personally don't see the point in getting upset over people leaving one liners (yes better critiques help 'you' as a poet more than 'i like it' but what if someone just wants to read your work and say 'i liked it' - isn't that pleasing to hear as well?? And.. I happen to be someone that babbles a lot (as you will see here now) i have a hard time 'briefing' things.. and well, i've finally accepted that 'this' is me.. my point - i'm not out to get points.. i still haven't gathered up the motivation to have a contest (just to use the points i've gained here on AP) don't get me wrong - someday i would LIKE to have a contest.. just need the motivation. None-the-less I like to express how i feel to the author about a particular poem and if that takes me more words than another - does that make me a point grabber? I just worry that by me 'rambling' on a comment - makes me look like a 'point grabber' and that isn't my intention at all when commenting. If it seems that way - i'll give my points away freely (as I have done in the past).

    I also want to add something about using the authors own lines from a poem to show what in particular you liked -

    I actually picked this up by paying attention to other 'commentors' thinking it was something more 'respected' on this sight. I try to pay attention and play things by the rules and be respectful of that sort of thing for the most part - but now i feel i'm still 'doing something wrong' and that stinks.

    i joined this site to read poetry, write poetry and post poetry. the critiques and comments to me are a bonus and i'm thankful (most times) that people are reading my poetry at all. All the rules and regulations (although i agree they need to exist at times) are what make me feel less free to express myself and my writing which goes against the main concept of the site, no?

    Anyhoo - I still think it was good you posted this and for the one's that 'don't know' will definately learn something from this collumn and maybe vice/versa forgive my wishy washy babble. also - i would like to promote this collumn basically to give back some points from me babbling so much but to also share this with everyone else that may not have stumbled on this on their own. But i would like to get your concent first.


  • moonlitmirror
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I think its good that finally someone is actually posting what exactly this stuff is, since people have been getting in trouble for it for much much longer. I know a few people, including myself, who weren't aware what all this spam and point grab stuff was. Thanks for finally addressing this problem

    ~blessings~

    ~rora


  • ProverbialRide
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    The type of spam that bothers me on this site is the people who write one EXTREMELY long general critique and then paste it as a comment to about 50 different poems. I had one of these comments myself so I went and looked at the other poets past critiques and they had given 36 other people the same comment. I find this deplorable. I don't necessarily like the points system. I use it to get my poems read but I only comment when I feel the need.


  • Hollow Echo
    July 11, 2004
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    The whole idea that a poet can better their work by posting it on AP, and gettimg comments is a complete farse, 99% of the time people comment to get comments in return, J LONDON above is correct, the point system conflicts with the purity and idea of this site and of the poets work, just drop it.


  • July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    what a load of hog poo poo.


  • July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    The whole idea of a point system in my opinion should be abolished: it is just a form of encouragement of a 'commercial' approach that is not compatible with poetry.

    Moreover it encourages a form of obsessive mental masturbation in which the pursuit of point prevails over the natural drive of commenting only what strongly affects the reader.

    In the unnatural, mercantile, feverish pursuit of accumulation, in this stupid 'Monopoly' game much of the sense of reading poetry for the sake of it is lost. And the logic behind is, of course, NOT that of poetry, but that of having people compulsively log on the system, and write whatever to get the points, therefore increasing the number of access hits of the system, therefore making the site popular, therefore allowing for people running it to make money.

    There is nothing wrong with making money, but the interest of poetry should prevail. And the point system opposes such interest. So abolish it, or else don't pretend you have the moral credibility to ask to not exploit the system, when you are exactly working against the interest of poetry for a mere commercial interest.
    Edited on Jul 11, 4:52 p.m. because ''.

  • emeraldraven
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply

    Informative

    I agree whole-heartedly with this collum. The only part that made me growl a bit is the part where you say about posting some a line in a critique. Now, actually I find it extremely helpful if someone uses a direct quote from my peice so I know extractly what they are speaking of because I have seen line breaks and things differ from computers...such as my main computer to my laptop. It really would be easier in the long run to post the line that you are referring to. It is just a thing. I think that it is always good to quote the peice and add the crit to it. If you do it this way your comment is already lengthy in most cases and a quote will affect it to totally much (besides as a benefit to the poet).


  • shastadaisey123
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I find this article very enlightning and much appreciated. I enjoy the contests more for the fun and inspiration the rules afford me rather than a trophy or points...I do like the points for applause, donating and I will admit , at times to promote my own work...if I click on a piece I will comment or critique to the best of my ability and that is all I ask for others to do when they read my work...simple honest comments are always appreciated by any writer and I thank you for bringing this "point"up...freda

  • NurseHayley
    July 11, 2004
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    I am sure if you can come up with an alternative that Kevin would be glad to hear it - I do not deal with those aspects of the site - I only help to reinforce the rules and policies as they stand today.

  • Desiree Darkk
    July 11, 2004
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    I believe in the beginning of my comment I stated that although there have been column written on this before, over the years, it bears being brought up again. However, as I said, The very nature of this site, where you get paid points per so many hundred characters, points almost being play money, you are going to have people puffing up their comments. So maybe the point system should be changed or perhaps even abolished. The point system as it is now is flawed.

  • -Aquarius-
    July 11, 2004
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    Well before I read this I had no idea what point grabbing was. So I learned something! Luckily I've only seen that act once, and thought it was simply rude. A very nice column toi make others more aware, thank you!
    Crystal

  • pozo
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I think on the C&P part it's ok as long as it's 2 lines or less-that's common practice when analysing text for essays so it should be acceptable here.
    This is a very important column which we should all take into account. Points are very nice when they're earned through analysis of the text and engagement with it but when they're just earned through elongated words or leaving lots of dots etc they're annoying.
    I think this piece is important for me personally because at the moment I'm reading the work of a poet who's good but for whom advertising their work on other poems they've written seems to be acceptable.
    Anyway, well done and thankyou for writing this poem

  • JM Kenyon silver member
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I've seen all of the above points made at some time or another on AP. I had once left more than four lines of a person's poem in comment and was fined 30 points for it too... I hadn't completely understood the rules of the site, but once understood it hasn't been repeated. It is difficult to gain points, but that makes them all the better, having ben earned. As for comments, I want real comments on my poetry, not the yeah that's nice or whatever.

    All and all, you'll appriciate what you work for more than what you don't. Best of wishes to all and this is something that needs to be reminded on AP.

    ~genielassie~

  • Kelpylion
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Just wanted to comment on the bit about c&p-ing bits of a poem. In the example you gave, it's easy to explain which line the reader liked, but keep in mind that not all poetry is in stanza format, and free-verse is sometimes very long. Also, commenters may like to remark upon certain wordings and/or suggest new ones. It's a lot more practical to copy the lines in question alongside the suggested revision.In other words, copy-and-pasting isn't always an attempt to steal points. (Heck, some of don't even care about points!)
    Edited on Jul 11, 11:22 because 'typo.'.

  • NurseHayley
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    In reply to your comment - the whole point we are addressing is where poets DO NOT engage with the piece and then leave spam as a comment - because of this column we have actually been able to track down a serial "point grabber" who would write a few words then use a stupid amount of dashes and dots to the end of their comment. We are not trying to penalise the majority of people who are genuine on this site, but spam and "point grabbing" is a problem that needs to be addressed again.
    Edited on Jul 11, 10:33 because ''.

  • Desiree Darkk
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Spamming and point grabbing has been addressed before, many times. But it doesn't hurt to do one of these every so often for new members who may not be aware.

    I can't leave without saying though. The very nature of this site, where you get paid points per so many hundred characters, points almost being play money, you are going to have people puffing up their comments with the Wooooows and the little and and maybe even a sig type ending, simply to get the extra points. I find it amusing that a person would be dubbed a point grabber as a "bad" thing when the whole "point" is to earn "points" to promote, hold contests etc. Maybe the point system should be rehauled or maybe even abolished. When you create a monster, don't complain when you can't control it.

    Desiree
    Yay that's a 5 pointer!
    Edited on Jul 11, 10:20 because ''.


  • Timothy Cameron gold member
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    This message does need to be repeated on occasion. It does reduce the frequency of spamming/point grabbing. I had a contest where I gave away 2,000 points. I meant to give 1,000. The person who I gave too many points to did not return them nor did he even respond to my IM about my mistake. Since it was my mistake, I didn't complain to a Moderator, but it does say something about how important points are to some people. It took me a looong time (a few exrta o's here are appropriate) to earn those points.
    When people do a C&P on my poems, it is a slap in the face. It tells me they don't really care about me as a person and does not respect me as a poet (not that I claim to be an accomplish poet, but that is not what matters), or at the least needs to mature emotionally.
    I am been a member of this site for a fair amount of time and have committed many hours of my life to commenting on people's work. I can't get those hours back, nor would I trade them for anything else. :-)


  • NurseHayley
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Grins


  • rufina caraid gold member
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    264 reads at this point Hayles - way to go!!!
    I think you've handled this really well. concise and to the point.
    ~Von~


  • ilovemygrape
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Indeed... Nice article, and it looks like you'll be quids-in with all those applauses there


  • Night Eye
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    yes yes, spamers beware I have busted a handfull too many already. watch out for me.
    ~
    Johnathan


  • AngelsLethargy
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Spam always is and always was quite a large issue on the net. Although in more sophisticated communities such as this it's quite rare to find. However - I, myself, have recieved quite a large amount of IMs from pressumably (I'm too lazy to check it out) new poets. I have nothing against leaving these people comments as they ask for them as they gain nothing but my opinions on the matter anyway but it is rather annoying when I point by browser towards AP and find I have Forty or so of these IMs waiting for me. Yeah... You know who you are. Well addressed issue here; simple point to make to the spammers - Don't do it!


  • jgrayson-au
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Very tempted to write wow with 10^23 o's. I agree with what was written above, yet I too often copy paste lines. It has just been through ease, however normally if I am refering to a line, my comment (critique or otherwise) will be long enough already.


  • heinzs silver member
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I sometimes don't have a lot of time to spend online, yet I want to read those poems posted by my favorites. Sometimes I just leave a smiley. Other times I leave an applause. In neither case do I gain any points (spend them for applause) so don't consider that "spamming", even though it may be repititious in nature. I really just want them to know I've been there and read their poem.


  • Blushfulmoon silver member
    July 11, 2004
    Edit | Reply

    EXCELLENT~

    Way to go sweetie
    I think you did this topic quite well
    'nuff said he
    Hugs n love
    Susan~~~

  • Odyssey
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Spaming for points is copying a large chunk of the poem and pasting it with no interaction or reaction to the pasted lines or stanzas - but I agree with neske if and when I am going to discuss a particular line and how it made me feel, I am not going to waste my time counting lines to highlight it - nor make the poor author waste his/her time having to count the lines in the poem to get what it is I'm trying to refer to - I'll show them. I don't consider this spaming for points...if it were printed and I could hand a hardcopy back to the author, I might just use a highlighter to make my references. I think it is all about intention, and how you go about using the cut and paste method. Some of the best critiques I have received have been when the reader has pulled many lines out of my poem, to comment on them individually and expand on it, or offer suggestions, and the comments that I frequently find applauded are those in which I do the same.

    I think it is dead easy to pick spam from a critique anyway. And those that do it, know they do it - and will probably persist in doing it, no matter how many columns are posted on the subject. Just as you can bet your bottom dollar that the majority of comments getting around on the site all look like some variation of the one line "100characters are just enough to earn me something, particularly if the post is featured and I get to earn more points." You know the kind of comment I mean...the ones that give you no indication WHATsoever that the poem was even read. A far more annoying issue worth addressing would be that of featured reads and the ol' click and no comment. But that will always happen around here too.
    Edited on Jul 10, 11:34 p.m. because ''.


  • batista
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    great column, very well written. spam is the worst kind of internet pollution out there, and I know that I cannot stand it at all, and I am very sure most people here don't like it too much either


  • LarryATilander
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I haven't been here long enough to have seen of which you speak, but I have seen similar usage of other sites. I am so glad to see you spelled 'penalised' with an ess rather than a zed. Someone raked me a couple of days ago for using an ess in a similar word which Canadians and British use ess in, but most Yanks shove zeds into instead. Not that they even call a zed a zed. I had one lady stop talking to me because I thought her nick name, which was "DayZ" was Dazed, not Daisy. Go figure.


  • Nofear04
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply

    ye not guilty

    To Fern-there a different between what you type and like a 15 million character word like some of the ones i've seen


  • Fern
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Doesn't go here but has to comment Many of us just say "WOooo" things, etc. because we're crazy... I understand doing this on random people's poems may annoy them and others but if it's your friend's poem they usually understand what state of mind you're in...


  • duana
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Hi. I have only been the victim of one spam. I haven't seen a lot of it on here. We have three people on my computer who are also on allpoetry. One of the children was accused of spamming when she actually wasn't- she just had very little knowledge of the computer. Unfortunately because she was accused of it, we all got punished and banned from all poetry for almost a week. It was a very sad situation. We did teach her though that all our actions have unintended consequences, and so she learned what seemed to be an unfair lesson. I know that true spanning does goes on here, and I think it is good that you wrote this for those who do it deliberately. I do think that there needs to be classes geared towards the younger poets so that they can learn to critique better. One of the children who uses my computer is the lovliest girl in the world, and yet she only has a small vocabulary to say what she feels. She has said the same thing in many poems she comes across, and sometimes only one liners. For that she got accused of spamming, and thus all users on this computer were banned from this site. It can be unfair. But it is hard to tell the difference from a true spammer and just a younger person of twelve who only has narrow reactions yet in life, and towards poetry.

  • angelica silver member
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply

    needed to be said topic

    Some very good points here haley as my user name starting with A they see me on, send an IM read my poems and I'll read yours, for which I used to, then I wouldn't hear from them, or please applaude my poems as I need the points to which I politely IM them back now to tell them the best way to earn points is by commenting on other peoples poems.The only time I like other poets writing a poem in the comment box is when it's from one of my dearest friends for which I put on my author page, like my friend repomen79 who has since died and I treaure them. it is annoying when you comment on poems and don't get a response back, I try to reply to all, even if sometimes it takes a while for me to get to them because of the big favourites list. another annoying thing is the feature box, I have promoted other friends poems, spending my points and most of them don't even leave a comment, especially when it's someone who is ill and needs our support. when i have contests, I give up to 1000 points away to give them back to the site. I have even given a poet who I see has potential 300 points to have their own contest as that was done for me in my 1st one by yesyoucan and we are dear friends now, just as darell to whom I gave points to for his 1st contest as I saw his potential to be a good poet and we are dear friends now. thank you for posting this and any points I earned from it will be given back by applauding someones work~Love~angelica


  • Earlbecke
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    While I agree a lot with the point of this article, and the sentiment, I have to say: I often copy/paste sections of a poem. Sometimes it's the only way to easily point out exactly what part you're talking about, especially in a really long poem. I wouldn't copy an entire stanza (UNLESS I was offering proof-reading advice, which I hope doesn't count as "point grabbing"), but I often copy several lines. I try to offer sincere comments/critiques and I never purposely try to get more points from my comments--I just sometimes happen to leave really long comments for whatever reason.


  • Kristina
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply

    Great message!

    Nicely said NurseHayley. I think this does need to be mentioned as many may not know about this. I also find it extremely annoying when people post extended words. You said this very well and in a nice tone. Hopefully everyone will get the message. Keep up the great work.

    May the colours of the rainbow follow you always.

    Smiles always,
    Kristina


  • drumdog79
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Thank you for putting this out there, hopefully people will take the time to read it and take it to heart. Spamming and P.G. ARE annoying. All I have to say is, I really liked this part: "It is very commonplace and there are more than enough words in the dictionary to express your feelings on a piece of work, without the use of extremely elongated words. You'd probably earn more points by trying to engage with the piece you are reading and putting your feelings into more accurate words."
    Just kidding, feel free to dock me a few points, but I had to do it.
    ~Jordan

  • neske
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I, myself, find this: "A more appropriate response would perhaps be:

    'I felt like I could relate a lot to line 4, stanza 3.'

    to be obnoxious.

    It would be as if I had said:
    "I really find, myself, what you said and the alternative you expressed in line in section (or paragraph)12 lines 2 and 3, and all of section 13, to be obnoxious."

    Which statement was more clear? I think the first one was, because the person leaving the comment tells you to what they are referring, which is much easier (for me) than having to count stanzas and lines to figure out what they are talking about. I think it is part of a normal sounding dialog which is more closely related to a conversation.

    Now, what I think you meant is people just copying whole stanzas to get points, and not really interacting with what they have pasted. I don't think lines are the problem. I don't even really think whole stanzas are the problem. I don't really mind that either, and much prefer it to: "Hey I really liked stanza 21." (What the heck is stanza 21? I'm not going to go back and count 21 stanzas so I know what they are talking about. I'd prefer the paste.) I think the real problem is if people are interacting with what they are copying. If they are copying 8 lines and say: "This was good." Then that is a problem. If, however, they are copying 8 lines and go on to write 20 words or so about it -- I don't think this is the problem.

    My 2 cents, and 5 points.

    Best Regards...

  • Goss98
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I'm glad you wrote this. I really hate comments with lots of punctuation or ascii art in them. I think there are two legitamite ways to grab points without being a pain. One is use Canadian spellings on words. In many words there is an extra letter. Some Canadians do not do this. Another legitamite way of grabbing points is to expand your vocabulary and phrasing. Instead of saying "I like it", you can say "this poem fascinated me" or "your work inspired feelings of nostalgia". Also, try to pin down why you like the work.


  • -Twilight-
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    UGH! So that's what those messages have been, it's happened to me a number of times, but I always thought that someone asked a moderator to like i-m a lot of people on the site and ask for them to comment, and I've commented on all of them, one of the people asked me to "Read her poem, and then tell her HOW GOOD" it is because if she gets a lot of comments she'd publish it, I didn't say much about it, but applauded it to be nice to her, because she only had one poem, and I thought I'd give her encouragment to keep writing, but anyway...what happens do they get, like...doubled points or something? Thank you for making me aware of this!


  • XShades0fwhitEX
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Very well said. I'd like to think that everyone on the site agrees that it is utterly annoying to have such comments. I don't think I have had this problem too many times, considering I like to give my points away to people. *shrug* What do I really need them for? I know of the contests and the applauses, but in all reality friend, it is really sad when it comes to writting for points... seems rather shallow. I come to write, not to gain points, I'd like to think the same of our talented poets... don't you?


  • Poetic LieSins
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    THANK GOD YOU BROUGHT THIS UP! It's about time. One thing that I feel needs to be addressed, however, is not giving ENOUGH criticism. So many times I've had poets comment on my poems and all they say is, "Oh! I like it!" This becomes extremely frustrating when you've spent points to put it on the featured list. I'm not sure if this is the right place to go to make my complaint or even if this will ever be read, but I thougt I'd try.


  • MmmCoffee
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    i have taken parts out of poems before, not for points though. i simply have no idea what anything in a poem is, like stanzas. i have no idea what that is. and i will have to ask that you excuse me from using things such as wow, i have a very limited vocabulary. i have never gotten any complaints from using such things either. as long as i dont use it for the points, which i would probably use to feature someone elses poem, i dont see what the big deal is. but spam is evil and it should die...

  • MysticRoseTears
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I agree, I only comment on poems that I think I can comment on, and I have some comments on some of my poems where people just typed "good job" that isn't really worth any points. And I think that the moderating is a great idea of preventing spamming...lets just hope it will work and the spamming and point grabbing will be cut down.


  • live4eternity
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Thanks for posting this up here. I am new and I do copy and paste things, but I will not do that anymore. I would also say things like, "ummmm. uhhh. hmmmm", so I won't that I will do that anymore either. I would just do that to express the total confusion that I was in. Thanks for clearing that up!

  • kyattaman
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    This is a very good column, speaking to a couple of specific problems in a concise manner. I am not a person who has been doing either of the things you mentioned but apparently these are major problems on AP. Thank you for taking action to correct them.


  • DefinitiveFreak silver member
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Eek, that's kinda scary really. Better not blabber on then!


  • glazecovered
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    What really bugs me is when a person joins a bunch of writing groups and then IM's teh whole group with a poem they'd like checked out. Sometimes when I log on there's a dozen of these things by the same person. I'm not sure i fthat's against the rules, but it sure is annoying.
    I try to report spammers to moderators as much as I can. Sometimes people just write a five point message that doesn't relate to the poem, like "What a terrific poem, you have so much talent, God blessed you with this gift and you are using it well" blah blah and that they just copy and paste it. V. annoying. I hope that everybody reads this column and stops doing that.
    ~Anastasia


  • Megan Dearest
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Sometimes my friends and I leave messages as well as comments in our critiques. Is that alright as long as we don't mind doing it? By the way this was very helpful, I have gotten quite a few IMs saying "please comment my work." I didn't know that was against the rules. I have also copied and pasted a few lines (no more than 2 or 3) but not to gain points. I only do that if the part strikes me as amazing. I didn't know I was breaking rules. Very helpful and thanks

    Meg


  • FireGeck0
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I love it! Thank you for posting it, and hopefully people will actually read it. I got a 'comment' from someone, once, consisting of lots of periods, a phrase like "Love Me", and ALOT of scrolling. I didn't know what to do, really, so I IM'd them and asked them (nicely, or course) not to do that. They replied that it was their friend....
    Which could bring up a whole new point. DON'T let your friends use your account!!!!
    *sigh*
    Anyways, thank you so much for writing this. Very diplomatic, and much needed.

  • Smilingspider
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Agreed with the column and would take it further and include the Ghost clicking in Featured, alright they don't gain points but they do (some purposely) abuse site manners.
    I have and will continue to post poems along with my comments if after reading the piece, I have understood it, I will either write a critique or add a poem that shows I understood it.
    I have now for the most part stopped writing the one liners, and now don't bother to comment at all.


  • Johnny Wheeler
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply

    Bravo!

    Bravo! This needed to be said! I have also seen comments that consist of nothing but '..........' for several lines. I have also seen extended words and endless exclamation marks as well. There seems to be a trend going on here at AP. We need to gain control of our home. I also think it is a shame that people click on a featured item, and don't even bother to leave a comment - I hope you get a lot of reads on this. Thank you for posting this.
    --Johnny


  • Barbara gold member
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I don't mind seeing people replying to a poem with a poem, but if that is all they ever do...no comments, no "I like this because, etc"...but only comment by posting long poems.


  • g r e y i s m
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I saw what someone said about replying to a poem with a poem...I just want to say that if a poem of mine has inspired someone to write one out of inspiration, or something like that, and also vice versa, that I think we should be able to do that. there are alot of friends on this site who enjoy doing that and don't see it as a nuisance at all.
    other than that, this was good and brought up some good points for people who may not be all that familiar with this sort of thing.

    ~ O

  • NurseHayley
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    For all complaining about the copying and pasting sentence - please note it says large sections. A decent comment relating to any small amount of copying and pasting shall be accepted. Copying sections and leaving a "I really liked this bit" as a comment is what we are trying to stop.

    Thanks

  • Barbara gold member
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Some people understand that point grabbing and critiquing are different. When pointing out errors in a stanza, some people will copy the stanza. Point grabbing would be to copy the stanza, and simply say "I can relate to this" or, "I liked this stanza the best." Not helpful at all!

    I've copied a line or two in comments...usually when I've left a damn long comment anyway, and will not get any further points by doing so. But I do not copy entire stanzas.

    I've seen some people that will leave a general comment first, and then folow it up with another entry where they copy stanzas, and critique. No extra points are given to them, so that is an 'iffy' one for that issue.

    But....and I know other people disagree with me on this one....if whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo is considered point grabbing, would not also posting a poem in place of a comment be considered such? If added to a comment then I don't mind it, but when someone constantly posts poems instead of comments or critiques....


  • July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    It's funny... Tina corrected you and she ended up spelling 'column' incorrectly. Good points made in the article, but hasn't it been written before, in some form or another?


  • catz Moderators member
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    A good column, Hayley. I hope the other poets take heed. As for copy and paste in a comment, I think a line or two that the reader especially wants to point out, for whatever reason, is not so bad. But just yesterday, I read a comment where the entire poem was copied and pasted into the comment... Geeshe.. you'd think that everyone would know how dumb that is, well meaning or purely point grabbing. After all the most points that can be earned with a comment is five.. that person must have thought she/he would get many times that by putting the whole poem into the comment. And after all, how hard is it to write a meaningful comment that will earn the five points, anyway.
    Speaking of which... do ya think I've managed my maximum with this comment...lol
    Thanks for posting this, Haley....good job
    Dee


  • strawberrynadir
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    lol yesh
    this is very true
    i fear im often guilty of quoting- not consciously to get points but my usual style is to quote a section and explain what i liked / didn't like about it... i will try to minimise this as much as possible, and as for spam, v annoying..


  • Ava Noire silver member
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Hayley, let me tell you! The other day this person commented on one of my poems by copying & pasting two very long stanzas in my poem, then at the end of the second stanza they said they really liked it - I can't remember exactly what they said, but what they said was 7 words long, I ticketed and it was dealt with.

    Get points by commenting on someones poems. If you don't like reading poetry on here, don't post on here and expect people to want to read YOUR work.

    The stanza after the link, you have a period and then a lower-case w - in "while." It needs to be a comma, rather than a period, or you need "While."

    Great coloumn


  • candy177
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I have copied and pasted a little bit, but it's never more than 2 lines usually. Sometimes I feel it is easier for the author to read it in the comment without having to go back through and count their lines (I know, that might sound lazy for them but..)...that's usually if I only have a small amount to critique - if I am posting about several errors or improvements I will typically count off lines down a list. What irks me is the lack of people that use spellcheck - after all, it's right there and only takes an extra minute or two. If I'm feeling very helpful I typically point out typos. In any case, I've never had the long words, and I never copy/paste just to earn points. I have had people send me IMs asking to read their work - it may take a little more time but they should just start off reading my work instead as I typically tend to ignore them. There should be a small note made that if you comment on someone's work it is only nice for them to return that favor to you - I have found a few people that I reefuse to read now as I have commented on several items and didn't get any sort of reply or thank you. That's just polite. Well, I'm done talking your ear off (and no, I didn't post as much just to earn points, I really could care less LOL). Great column, it's nice to have these points brought to attention!


  • July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    Yeah, I know what you mean by 'Point grabbing' comments. On one of my mum's poems someone said 'I like the night' (cos the poem was about night) and it went all the way down the page and she probaly got 5 points for it.. But my mum told a moderater and the person had to delete the comment, lol. Hopefully now, people will understand it is a against rules to write point grabbing comments.

    pinkwhite oxoxoxo
    Edited on Jul 10, 3:12 p.m. because 'spelling error'.


  • Almighty Aphrodite gold member
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    This was very informative. While I don't wholeheartedly agree with the idea of not being able to copy and paste a couple of lines or maybe a stanza (if it's a stellar standout) in a comment, I have to align my thoughts with your own on the unsolicited IM messages and chatterbox fiascoes. Also, my thoughts are with whispernthedark--it would be a lot easier if all of us--especially the preferred and uber members, since we pay to support All Poetry--could delete "spam" comments from our works. I have received one comment where all the person put were crying emoticons and maybe one sentence, and then another where it was apparent the person didn't really read the piece--she said something about an "obvious rhyme scheme" when the poem I'd featured that day was written in free verse. That makes me sick--and I would love to have a way to get comments like that off of my work. Otherwise than that, you have tackled this subject considerably, and I thank you.

    Many blessings,

    Raven Aurora


  • whispernthedark Greeters member
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    This is an excellent article. The other day, someone actually left me a comment that was nothing but dashes that took up several lines, then put love me, or some craziness like that. What's even more aggravating is that you can't delete those comments off of your poem.

    ~whisper


  • Molassis
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I suppose I'm just in another world entirely... or just dumb. I didn't know what spam was but I have seen all the adding of the letters into a word for more points. I've never done that but I have added extra o's into so to drag the word out a little to make a point... is that the same thing? I also do not care for having part of my poem pasted back to me... I'd rather just hear what the person thinks. I have only had maybe 2 IM's from people I didn't know or have never read asking me to read their poetry but I just ignored them... didn't know it was against AP rules...

    Thank you for this imformative column I learned a lot! **smiles** ~Melissa


  • Onyx Dragon
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I liked the column, but I do disagree on the copy and pasting. When I do a critique I often copy and paste certain parts of the poem and take the poem apart piece by piece (when im feeling extra helpful) and point out the problems. It's much easier for me to copy and paste the line or lines that I'm commenting on into the comment and pointing things out rather than going up and counting stanzas, and its clearer for the author as well so they dont have to go through their poem and back to my comment to see what in hell's name I was talking about.

    Just thought I'd put my two cents in


  • MargaretG
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    I have seen comments which, line by line, showed the meter and its problems. I don't think that is unwarranted copying, but perhaps it should be done only by invitation of the poet.


  • White Dragon
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    A very needed explination of what shall bstopped. I have myself never recieved spam in here but do agree that it is highly unnecisary. There is no reason someone should promote their workd that much, if people like it word gets around, and that should be enough.
    ~Brad


  • stephanie sunshine
    July 10, 2004
    Edit | Reply
    i don't think it's spam to copy and paste, say, two lines of a poem in order to address those two lines specifically. however, i DO think it's wrong to copy and paste the ENTIRE poem with a tag line like: this was my favorite part. personally, i DO paste back certain lines as part of what I consider to be a thoughtful critique. if i get fined for that, i don't know. i'd honestly be upset.


  • Le Moxie Mox
    July 10, 2004
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    Amen she said! It's annoying these meaningless woohoos. Critique is a serious issue. All seriousness aside it's all about improvement and "Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohooooh, this was good" just won't do.


  • Random Master
    July 10, 2004
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    I like what u've listed here Hayley but there is one thing... I *think* there was a column before about critiquing and one thing that was suggested was to copy parts of the poem as referance and say that that was the best part of the poem. So there are conflicts with what other helpful info has been sugested, just thought i'd point it out

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