Whenever the debate gets going, those who are pro-choice often defend the act by saying "It's not a baby yet, it's just an embyro" or even "It's not life yet." So where does life begin if not at conception? 3 weeks? Not until the baby actually breathes air? So even though it has a beating heart, eyes, ears, and even kicks and moves it's okay to end its life? Oh wait, but it's not really life yet? It's not really a baby yet? This boggles my mind.
Some go so far as to say that until it can live outside of the mother, than abortion is okay. That it's a woman's right to have an abortion at any time during the pregnancy because it's HER womb. What? So what next? Is it going to be okay for Mother's to kill their born children and toddlers at any time because it's THEIR house and they're sick of them?
Why is their this discrepency about the life of a baby inside the womb, but when it comes to a blade of grass everyone will agree that it is alive?
If you pick a blade of grass, the part that you picked is going to die because it doesn't have the roots to keep it alive. But does that mean that that part was never alive before? Of course not. But then we do go around mowing all the grass, don't we? Okay, but that's a plant. Would we run a lawn mower over a bunch of babies?
What about those who are raped and impregnated? Someone did something horrible to them. Granted. That doesn't give them the right to turn around and do something horrific to another (their child).
I beleive that the problem with people in this situation and who have abortions, is how they look at it. What that rapist did to you was not an act of God, God had nothing to do with it, but I believe that those who become pregnant by their rapists are given a gift despite the evil that they had to endure. I beleive that those children are God's way of making good from the bad. I may even go so far as to say God had an extra special purpose for those children.
People go on and on about how many people have died in the war. It is a tragedy. I do not deny that. But I think abortion is an even bigger tragedy because it is right here amongst us. It's not enemies killing us - we're killing ourselves! And the number of aborted children each year surpasses the amount who have died serving our country immensely. At least those who are giving up their lives for their country had a chance to live in the first place.
I see so many people around me who are lonely, unmarried, in need of someone. I can't help but wonder if the soulmates God made for them may have been aborted. They may never find their soulmates, because they never got to live outsife the womb.
Women have the right to say "No" to sex and to protect their bodies. A child is never a "mistake." The mistake comes before the child, but the child may be God's way of forgiving you - his gift despite your sin.
Abortion is wrong. The end can not justifies the means. And even if it could, the end is murder. How is that justified?
Abortion is murder.
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1 - 49 of 49
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I agree with you completely. Although I do not support abortion, I used to think it was justified perhaps in the case of rape. Thank you for helping me to see another side of it, that although the pain is crushing and immense, it does not give someone a right to end another human's life. Well done.
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I agree
This piece you wrote reminds me of "Leaves of Grass" by Walt Whitman. Which blade do we decide does not merit being a leaf of grass. Which person do we decide does not merit being a person.
Satan is considered the father of deceit and deceiving oneself with a slide of hand mass denial does not change the truth. You have spoken the truth.
We have the power to create Revelation living like dogs with no self control not using the good sense God gave us. Or we can have self control in the first place so we don't have to exercise some tardy pseudo (man-made) control called pro-choice.
Roll call for making "responsible" choices before hand so people don't have to slaughter the hands of babes deluded under the guise of man-made pro-choice. Pro-choice is worse than taking candy from a baby. Pro-choice is killing the baby.
Yes, we have a population problem due to everyone's right to have a child. Yes, we have a war called pro-choice propaganda slaughtering babies. Yet the biggest travesty is everyone knows better. It isn't love that brings a baby into poverty... it is lust. It isn't love that aborts a baby it is scraping away the truth that recreation isn't entertainment it is, less man made means to abort process, reproduction.
Everyone wants to be sexy and have sex when there is so much more to life. Such as not ending a life because delusional that sex is for entertainment. No oopsies and overs scraping out the evidence, one baby at a time. Well, yes there is oopsies and overs, scraping out the babies one at a time and it is called pro-choice. Not God's choice.
A fellow poet said God is control of the situation. No, we are. Most every bad situation a person is in that person had a notion a better choice existed. That was God tapping on the door of the mind. Men and women are not puppets and the problems of men and women are all their own. Don't blame God anymore.
We need Emotional and Life Skill Education K-12 because parents cannot teach what they have not learned. The fourth R needed in schools is respect for self and one another accepting responsibility for one's actions.
There is an old religious belief that, hopefully, from ever bad some good evolves as you so stated.
IF an environment is not one to nurture a child. A loving person wouldn't have that child. If a person doesn't want a child it is nonsensical to have SEX because less man-made aborting processes whether in birth control pills or abortion at its core SEX is reproduction not entertainment at the cost of babies lives. Well, yes it is via pro-choice isn't it?
Yes, be pro-choice and abstain because SEX isn't entertainment it is reproduction. We can act like a bunch of dogs using no self control or judgment or we can act like good stewards of he earth and one another. I challenge the world to stop chasing after desires that lead to irresponsible pregnancies unwanted by environment or people. We are killing babies and the earth acting irresponsibly. Life is like economics: Choice. Save a baby's life and just say NO to irresponsible behavior by not having SEX for entertainment.
Recycle Momma of Dallas
Adopter of causes, i.e., recycling
Motto:
Improve Earth and Children's Fate
Conserve, Recycle & Donate
You, me, WE recycling -
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Thank you so much.
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Hmm.
You contradict yourself. You say that God has nothing to do with rape, and then say that a child from rape is God's way of making something good from something bad. Is God all knowing and all powerful? If God is, then God is aware and in control of the situation.
Andy -
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Actually, I did nothing of the kind. Children are gifts from God. God is all knowing and all powerful, but he gave us free will and is not controlling everything that happens (that would be utterly ridiculous to think that). The point of this world is to see if we're worthy of the next.
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Okay.
So, "All things work together for good for God." How does that apply to abortion?
What about the 'morning after pill'?
It can be prescibed so that women, especially rape victims, may avoid unwanted pregnancies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning-after_pill
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You left off the other half, "for those who love the Lord."
The morning after pill is essentially an abortion as well. I am against it completely.
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Hi
Is using a contraceptive murder? A woman's body naturally rejects most of the man's wigglies, sometimes even embryoes. Is it really wrong to aid it? Just because a woman is ovulating doesn't mean that sex will make her pregnant.
Andy -
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It may well be. I am against it as well. Whether murder or not, it is wrong. God said "be fruitful and multiply." But he didn't say to do it outside of marriage. Ever heard of Onan?
Yes, it's wrong to play God. God decides what is used to make the child, not us. -
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Hmm.
There are those that play God all the time: doctors, leaders, and other authorities. It is a necessity. Doesn't the Bible also teach to obey authorities? -
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And I don't say that that is a good thing. It is not a necessity by any means.
No, it does not. It teaches to honor/respect them. If Hitler was the ruler of America, would I obey him? Absolutely not. That is a ridiculous argument. -
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The Bible teaches that the Authorities are placed by God and that they are to be respected, as Jesus laid down his life in accordance with the law of Rome and the Jews. He chose to do no harm. He chose not to fight. I have a column that will help you in persuading people in authority, if you wish to do so. I'll give you the link.
You have a very persuasive arguement. However, I may go you that abortion is wrong, but like most Christians and even the Catholic church, I don't feel that contraceptives are wrong. Women have just as many eggs and men as much sperm whether they abstain or use contraceptives. I see no difference there. Times change, sex is very much a recreational activity as well as reproductive.
Still, it is a choice that I believe should remain a choice.
I'll stand for women to exercise the right over their own bodies.
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And where exactly does it say this? That would mean that God put Hitler in his place of authority and he wanted us to obey him!
The Catholic Church okay with contraceptives! Now you are just making things up. Onan!
http://www.lisashea.com/lisabase/aboutme/birthcontrol.html
The difference is natural and not natural.
Times changing is not always a good thing.
What about the babies right over his own body?
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I was in error.
I thought I'd heard that the Catholic church was allowing contraceptives. I am wrong, however 75% of Catholics in the US favor the use of contraceptives. I would simply say the leadership of the Catholic church is behind the movement of its members.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/22678.php -
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The leadership is not behind the movement of its members. It is trying to get them back and to change. There would be no point in leaders if they just did what their group wanted them to.
I have no clue where you are getting this stuff.
The Pope condemns contraception: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354867,00.html
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I didn't mean that the Catholic church supports contraceptives. I meant that it had fallen behind the will of its people who do want the use of contraceptives accepted.
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It is the people who have fallen behind, not the church.
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I disagree here. I think the use of contraceptives is wise. I also believe that recreational sex is as much a God given gift and reproductive sex. We're not designed as other animals to have sex only to reproduce.
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If the point of sex isn't to reproduce, why do we have to use contraceptives to keep from reproducing?
Sure, there's pleasure that comes with the act. But that's not even half of the act. Contraception goes against nature.
Isn't nature a God given gift?
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Hi
It took a while for me to find it, but the New Testament says that God institutes the authories and that Christians are to obey them in Paul's letter to the Romans. Romans13: 1-7.
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Yes, Paul's letter to the Romans. He was writing specificly to them, not to everyone around the world and certainly not to everyone who would live hundreds of years after.
The bible also says no to adultery, homosexuality, murder, etc.. And if our so called "leaders" wanted us to participate in such activities it certainly couldn't be justified by Paul's letter to the Romans. -
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It is true that people pick and choose parts of the Bible and accept or reject what it says. Further, it often contradicts itself. The scripture reference I gave you I believe was meant universally by Paul, but you can reject it.
I find that the Bible has little real use and that Christians have little idea of what they are trying to follow. It's an old book meant for other people ages ago and continues mostly through superstition to be revered.
As you've pointed out, God lets us do what we want.
Abortion is potentially killing, but it is not murder as it is permitted by law.
In the US, if you disagree with a law, you can try to persuade the people and your leaders to change it. I don't think the law will be changed significantly. The majority want a choice. -
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Well, you can believe what you want, but what makes you an authority? He wrote a letter to the Romans. He never said it was to be universal and there is no reason for us to assume so.
These are all your thoughts, but where is the hard fact? I think most true Catholics (so called "catholics" who don't go to church every sunday, etc., can hardly call themselves so) are hardly superstitious and are well aware of the daily miracles. The Shroud of Túrin is one example of hard evidence - not superstition.
Abortion is not potentially anything, it is. By the law of God, abortion is murder.
Just because the majority of a people thinks something is right does not mean they are correct. -
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As you may not be aware, the letters of Paul were passed from one community of Christians to another. I'm certain Paul was aware of this. Is was the basic method of communicating among Christians at the time, the basic method of communication of everyone at the time. Messages would be sent and read to the people, most of which could not read. There were many hand written copies of Paul's letters distributed throughout the early Christian church. They were not limited, nor probably intended for only one community.
What makes me an authority? Well, being a minister and years of study may have something to do with it. However, I don't claim to be an authority as a Christian. I'm no longer a Christian. I was once, however, a Baptist minister and biblical scholar. I no longer recommend the Bible because most people do not understand it and it is filled with myth and inconsistancies.
We are governed by the laws of society, not God. Abortion is not murder by society's laws. If you choose to believe that God does not influence social law or customs, that's fine. The Bible doesn't agree with you. Over and over it says to obey the law. Humanity's law as well as God's. As it says, we all fall short of that.
Andy -
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Pure speculation. God said "Though shalt not kill." What is simpler than that?
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I don't understand "What about the babies right over his own body?"
It's in the epistles of Paul. I'll try to get a chance to find the exact scripture for you. It follows the reasoninging of render to Caesar what is Caesar and to God what is God's.
Hitler actually did a lot of good. He brought his country out of the depression and for a period of time made his nation the strongest in the world. As a result of Hitler, the world was also brought out of the depression. Wars are good for the economy, usually. Gives people jobs.
I'm a pacifist. I think we can find better ways than war to prosper.
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Why doesn't the baby have a right to live? You say the mother should have a right over her own body? Why shouldn't the baby have the same right?
Just because someone does some good doesn't justify the wrong they do. So are you trying to say it would be okay to obey Hitler because he did some good despite all of the evil? -
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I've concluded that abortion is wrong during our discussion except in the instance of medical reasons where the mother's life is in jeopardy. Though by law, though it may be killing, it is not murder. The choice for a woman to risk her life, even if faced with the possibility of dying, should still be her choice if she wants to have the baby. I personally think that a woman should save herself. This would be an extreme.
Contraceptives, I feel are fine.
You've caused me more thinking than I've done in a long time. Thank you
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Well, I'm glad of that. Thank you for a civil debate. I think this is honestly the first one that has remained intelligent!
This saint may interest you: http://www.scborromeo.org/saints/gianna.htm
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Bear in mind that Germany was a Christian nation. Until we were attacked by Japan, we didn't declare war. It was later that we declared war on Germany.
Also bear in mind, that the world came together and removed Hitler. He paid for his madness. If there's life after death, who knows the price he may be paying now. Christians should pray for his soul. What was done to the Jews was awful. No question. But you only die once, and everybody has too. Except there are the scriptures that say Heaven is a hand, and some will not know death. There is also a scripture about fearing God because God can do more than just kill a person. These are not verbatum, but it has been a long time since I've read the Bible, though I read it four times and the New Testament more than that.
Here's the link I mentioned. I need to revise this column, but I think it will give you some ideas and hope.
http://allpoetry.com/column/show/1472915
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Everybody should be given a chance to have an abortion or not, i do not think it should be stopped, for people who want to have one they should be allowed to choose if they want a child or not.
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If they didn't want to have a child then they shouldn't have had sex.
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Im gonna be the black sheep here, i do not aggree. i am pro-choice, my feelings are that,i do not support abortion and do not think that it is a reasonable form of birth control but i think that a mother has the right to chose. once the baby is born then since it is no longer inside her if she must love and take care of it,but if it is an unwanted child, rather than having it be born into an unloving environment its better to give women to choice, and it is their body, so it is thier choice. i think you all have vaild points, and i am taking that into consideration,but this is my opinion.
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And you're entitled to it, but how can it be okay to kill a baby say... a day before it's born and not after it is? How can that be the line?
As to it being born into an unloving family. Adoption is the answer there. -
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i definitly don't aggree with the killing the baby right before its born because then it's fully developed already, i think the only time an abortion should be allowed to be done is in the first trimester. thats really the only safe time for an abortion. i have odd views on adoption,i dont like the idea of giving up my own flesh and blood to people that i dont know if they would take care of it or not, but i do aggree with you on the fact that it isnt right to kill the baby right before it's born.
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But the child can start to move as early as week 9!
I agree that that is a strange concept - giving up your own flesh and blood. I couldn't do it. But it's certainly better than the alternative.
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Yes, of course, absolutely correct! Perhaps, if people could see the dismembered tiny, yet perfectly formed arms, hands, feet, heads....they might think twice?
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And surely at nine months! Thank you.
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Well,
I believe that a person does not become a living soul until after they are born. While it is true that a fetus will react to stimuli and has a beating heart, it is not an intelligent being.
I will grant that we can use a test tube and incubation to bring an embryo to life, we have that technology. If we did that, would it be Godly? Perhaps, using extreme means to save a life is just as wrong as aborting one. We decide who should live and die, and so does God. Possibly God through us. Pro-lifers are usually pro death penalty. Pro choice, usually anti-death penalty. Ironic, isn't it. In addition, the world would be overrun with humans if we saved every human life we could. In some places it is now, because birth is not controled. Why not adopt the children who are already orphaned?
The sanctity of a woman's body should be her own and life beared within her a privilege of a fetus and not a right. I agree that if a woman does not abort in the early stages of pregnancy, she should follow through with it, but I disagree that it is a human being before it is born. It is only a potential human being, just like sperm and and egg that have yet to unite, but at some point may. I think, unless for medical reasons, a woman should have the opportunity to decide at least through the first tri-mester.
Now, everyone can line up and shoot me. I love God, but I'm a Truist. I say what I believe to be true. I believe that God works through us all.
Andy
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Why not until after? Just to make abortion okay? If you justify the murder of a baby in the womb by saying it is not an intelligent being, then do you also think it's okay to murder people in comas? The mentally ill? Those who are mentally retarted? Who are you to decide what is "intelligent" and what is not?
That technology is playing God and I do not think it is right. But I do believe that once any of those babies are formed, then they should be protected and allowed to live.
What extreme means of saving life are you talking about? Life is sacred. We ought to do everything we can to maintain it.
Actually, they aren't usually. Only occasionally. And I agree it's ironic. So, are you okay with killing innocent unborn babies but you think murderers, rapists, and utterly evil people should be allowed to live? Yes, that's extremely ironic.
The world would never be overun by people if they were "fruitful and multiplied" in the sanctity of marriage. Our world is enormous. Trust me, we have room. But you would rather pick and choose who gets to live and die because you think the world will get too crowded?
Yes! Adopt the orphaned children by all means. But don't orphan those who aren't even born yet!
God gave us our bodies. We have no right to kill another (born or not) just as we have no right whatsoever to go up to a living person who we find inconvenient and shoot them (or should I say cut them up whil they are still moving and struggling to live).
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I actually agree with most of what you say here,
but I believe that intelligence and understanding develop outside the womb. Every sperm and every egg has the potential to develop into a human being. Natural selection eliminates huge numbers of these even in couples trying to get pregnant.
If it is all right to use technology to improve and prolong life, is it wrong to protect the quality of life for women with unwanted pregnancies? Many places are badly overpopulated, but in a perfect world, we would be able to handle many more people. It is not a perfect world. At least, not in that sense.
A woman has to go through a lot to bear a child, and there is a lot of responsibility for the parent(s). Some woman are simply not able to handle it.
You feel it is right to force them to go through with an unwanted pregnancy even in the case of rape. I have to disagree. At the very least, I think rape victims should have access to the 'morning after pill'. Who wants the genes of a rapist inside them?
Andy
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Whether it does or doesn't it irrelevent. It is still life. Natural selection. Yes, it does. But abortion and contraception is not natural. Leave it to natural selection or don't have sex.
It's not wrong to improve the quality of life for a woman with an unwanted pregnancy. There is counselling, care, and help she can seek out. It's sad that a rape victim had to go through that, but just because wrong was done to her does not mean she has the right to turn around and do wrong to another. Why is it okay to end the life of one person to make another person happy?
Those who "can't handle" their children have the option of adoption. The majority of people are perfectly capable of "handling" a child, they just don't want to.
I'm not denying that a rape victim who is impregnated by them must go through a lot of distress. But like I said before, just because wrong is done to her, doesn't give her the right to do wrong to another. The child didn't do anything wrong. Is it the child's fault that their father was a rapist? Victims of rape need to see the child almost as a compensation from God, of course as a gift, as a way to make good from bad, and above all as a human life aside from their own. It may be their body, but that child has a body too and it's THEIRS.
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I agree
in every single way. I have writen mulitple poems on this issue because I feel so strongly about it. it is murder, and that it a sin.
you will get hell for posting this but I salute you for showing your opinion!
<3 Jessy -
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Thank you so much!
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I am in total agreement with you. Abortion = Murder. Period.
Here's a prayer that I learned, it's short and simple, and there are millions of Americans praying it, too:
Jesus, I plead your blood over my sins and the sins of my nation. God, end abortion and bring revival to america. Amen. -
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Thank you.
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I agree,
In every respect. Women have the choice to keep their legs shut and men their pants on and zipped up. God gives life. How many couples who are childless bemoan their state not for lack of trying?
Instead of giving to good, honestly good causes,
most major industries support Planned Parenthood - contraception and abortion. Most of our worries now is that the president-elect, Obama, is much in favor of abortion, to the point of bringing back partial birth abortion, late term abortion...all on the premises of 'protecting his daughters if they make a mistake'...For the promotion and practice of the culture of death: abortion, euthanasia, not to mention Sodom and Gomorrah, America is going to hell in a handbasket darn soon! In February, the US of A officially becomes an ObamaNation.
Death sees no race, no color - tell me by his own words Obama does not seek this! I have no prejudice because he's black; but he's not moral, any moral since the last two decades of presidents have been. I'm not awed of 'Wow! The first black president!' His color doesn't justify his stance of pro-murder. The end never, NEVER justifies the means! Give us Colin Powell, or another black for president that believes in the sanctity of life! -
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I agree. This is a direct response to his election. It makes me sick to know so many americans are so naive and/or completely heartless and selfish.
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I think too many are in awe of 'making history' by electing a black president over having morals. I'd say to your conclusion, both are the case and indeed, appalling.
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