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New allpoetry logo ideas

We've had our current awesome logo for several years now, and it's time for a change. I'll present several that I've been working on, as well as my current favorite.
I continue to like the raven theme (based on edgar allen poe's 'The Raven'). It feels like a poetic image that's more vivid than a feather or quill or pen, which are especially not adapted to todays world where we often write on computers anyways. Plus, now the raven is a tradition


My current favorite:


I also really like the 'soaring' raven version, but it doesn't fit the logo location quite as well:


Another version of the above. Better, but still doesn't quite click for me:


I think the soaring raven will have to make it to a t-shirt soon.


My first favorite. A form of soaring, but less wide.



You'll notice the navigation links are also going simpler. They create a drop down menu nearly idetical to the current format, they just look simpler to begin with. I think this looks great with the new bar across the top of the screen. Especially with the silver bar; the colored bars may get some tweaking in another month or so.


I expect the site will be updated in a few days with the new logo. I hope you enjoy the new top-of-the-page companion

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Comments

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  • sweet fresh love
    July 25
    Edit | Reply
    good idea all i like

  • Cyanide Milkshake
    July 21
    Edit | Reply
    I like the current logo. Its majestic, without having to be soaring in the air.
    Failing that, the third one is nice. The fourth looks more like a seagull XD

  • deathbyfrootloopsxx
    July 20
    Edit | Reply
    The second logo is DEFINITELY my favorite -- soaring raven #1.

    The last one--the 'alternate version of soaring'--looks like a seagull, not a raven.

  • melons
    July 18
    Edit | Reply

    Hi

    I prefer your current logo.

    Why not integrate the current raven (without the circle) into the A of AllPoetry?

    Mel

  • -ButterflyCuts-
    July 18
    Edit | Reply
    I like the second one, just without the big space to the right..

    The first one looks a bit like a penguin..

  • edward81
    July 17
    Edit | Reply
    The current logo is sweet.the other ones dont quite draw my attention as much as the current.

  • liduen
    July 13
    Edit | Reply
    I personally like the current logo the best, but if you are inclined (sp) to change it I like the last one the best. I think the color on that one needs to be tweaked a bit, maybe a darker purple or all black. However, I do like all of them - so I would be fine with any decision you make.

    The less cluttered look of navigation links in nice

  • Duana gold member
    July 13
    Edit | Reply
    I also wanted to say I think the first one looks too much like a pigeon and doesn't really capture the Edgar Allan Poe feel (though on secound glance it could be the best of them all with just a little refining!), and the last one I really love but right now in white it looks like a dove.

    I don't know if you could use revise these based on all feedback and show them again- but if you could that would be cool. I like that you are doing a democratic type thing. It is possible to categorize all the feedback otherwise there wouldn't be a feild called statistics and research methods! Duana

  • Duana gold member
    July 13
    Edit | Reply
    I like the third one best if it could be just a little lower than it is and maybe bold the purple. I too like the raven theme- I think everyone would pick up on the association immediately. I think I would love the last one too but only if it were black or black with a sort of grey shadow.

  • Tetsuka
    July 12
    Edit | Reply

    KEEP IT

    Keep it please kevin. ):

  • david
    July 10
    Edit | Reply
    how about we keep the logo and just change the site name to fading flower

  • Valley Girl gold member
    July 9
    Edit | Reply
    I really like the second one the best.

  • shepherd23 silver member
    July 9
    Edit | Reply
    First one - the raven should be BLACK and have a red dot for the eye (muwhaahaha)

  • ElouiseC
    July 9
    Edit | Reply
    i like the second design it looks great

  • lullabyegurl
    July 9
    Edit | Reply
    i agree with septemberfaith, its cool!!! lol x

  • SeptemberFaith
    July 9
    Edit | Reply
    I like the 'soaring' raven. The one on the bottom of the ALLPOETRY Logo. That is is nice.

  • dazedXdesires
    July 9
    Edit | Reply

    I like

    The second one the most
    I think the underlining under allpoetry looks like a tree, in a way

    it just reminds me of a growing site
    and growing more in the mind to poetry

  • unbeliever101
    July 9
    Edit | Reply

    If it must change...

    I like the current one, too, but I understand that change is good. SO, I'm glad we're keeping the raven at least, yay! My vote goes for the last one, but make it blacker.

    Thanks for all you do, Kevin!

  • HolyMan28
    July 9
    Edit | Reply

    First one.

    I enjoy the first one the most. It's simple and cunning.

    That's my opinion though. You've got hundreds more to sort through.

  • GiftedPsychosis gold member
    July 9
    Edit | Reply
    I really hope you keep it as is. It already looks perfect and amazing. I love this raven and I don't think it should be changed.
    But I guess you should do as you wish and change it if you want to.....

  • Coffer
    July 9
    Edit | Reply
    Im thinking that a jar of ink and a quill would be a cool logo.

  • Naridill gold member
    July 9
    Edit | Reply
    I dislike the font style.

  • Shya
    July 9
    Edit | Reply

    Keep our raven!

    I've looked at all of these ravens and I must say, the raven we have right now is better than all of them. They just look like black birds, not like ravens. So please please please don't change our raven... we love him how he is!

    I love the new font for the words "All Poetry" though... good job with that!

    • Kevin Moderators member
      July 9
      Edit | Reply
      I'll do some more experiments with including it, but I'm overall ready to move on from it's beautifulness. Though we'll see; I'll probably post another column soon with my latest ideas.

  • rhondasail
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    ok, seriously...could you maybe place the current perfect raven within the 'O' of the word Poetry in Allpoetry and leave the rest alone? This would take care of the space issue you mention with the soaring bird(not a raven to my eye)...It truly is a wonderful image...if it's working WHY change it?...think of all the best logos : RCA Victor....Cadillac....Allstate Insurance...Travelers...The Hartford...the bands KISS, or QUEEN, or c'mon...if it ain't broke, etc...ok...said my piece...thanks for the opportunity to voice my opinion.

    • Kevin Moderators member
      July 9
      Edit | Reply
      integrating the icon into a part of the word would be cool, but totally not visible on the scale of having a small word 'allpoetry'

  • Smores Girl89
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    on the other hand i should not say to change the words whatever way you wish because the options shown are rather like dumbing it down. as afore mentioned, changing the font is a great idea and making things simpler as well, but don't make them look simpler if you know what i mean. we need something to look at that will draw in the eye and make people WANT to join a site as cool as ours. and also, i again voice my opinion to keep our beautimus raven as is. he is the most gorgeous poetry site logo i have ever seen out of all the bunches of poetry sites i am a member of. (i think he's why i joined lol)

  • HalfXPastXNakiexX
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    Hmmm... change it to an eagle with a fish in its claws maybe?

  • HalfXPastXNakiexX
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    But Mr. Kevin they are all still birds! most of them still the Raven. If its going to remain a bird, then why not just keep it as is?

  • morganaxash
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    My pick is the "soaring" raven.

  • Smores Girl89
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    i object strongly. the new font is absolutely great, but PLEASE keep our same raven! it's the only one that actually looks cool! i beg you, change the font or placement etc. of the words "all poetry" whatever way you wish but for heaven's sake do not remove our gorgeous raven
  • coiled throat
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    the second and third ones are the most interesting.

  • Poetic Tasha Moderators member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    i sorta like our current raven with the circle around it - or ur first fave but darker with a circle maybe, but love the font

  • Jet City Woman
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    souring, either 2 or 3

  • poeticweaver gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply

    Like the first and last one best.


  • smiley
    July 8
    Edit | Reply

    the first favorite

    I actually like the first favorite... White with the meaning purity is great.


  • thelordreigns gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    The color of the first raven may be what is bothering me. Can you make it a deep bluish black?

    • Kevin Moderators member
      July 9
      Edit | Reply
      I can try adding in some of the purple/blue in the 'poetry' word...

  • Confetti Fairy-x
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I like the first one... the second and third are gorgeous but not as raveny =]

  • Bigmammajen
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I think your first favorite reminds me more of a Seagull Kev - because its white. Maybe you can make it all black or darker shades of grey? Its actually my least favorite I like the the second one down best - but what do I know?

    • Kevin Moderators member
      July 9
      Edit | Reply
      Hi Jen! I agree the 2nd would look best on a t-shirt or by itself, but you can see from the image how I tried moving around the navigation links since it ends up so much taller than the other formats...

      I spent like 200 hours yesterday messing around with it to try and make it work and have basically given up. Going to try playing with some integration of the logos and the ravens, as well as taking the current raven and integrating it too...

      Let me know if you have any ideas how to integrate the wider soaring one.. I tried making it a semi-transparent echo across the upper-right edge of the logo area, and also adding @ the top or bottom of the sidebar, but it didn't look very good...

  • Samhuinn
    July 8
    Edit | Reply

    ^^

    Lol, thanks to the message Kevin send out I realized the logo is a raven -.-'
    I always thought it was a kid-witch with a big 'ol hat xD
    But if that sweet little girl has to go, I'd choose #2, very pretty x]

  • hear her breathe gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    Well I'll try to keep it positive and I'm guessing since this change is going to happen whether we want it or not...I say...the second one. Can we please please name the Raven??? Also are you dead set with the font?

  • frenzy
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    The second one is the best! Also, if you did make it into a t-shirt, I'd buy it!

  • BellaD
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I like the third version the best...soaring raven above All Poetry.

  • NurseyPoo
    July 8
    Edit | Reply

    Soaring

    I like the one wih the raven soaring on top. It's a real eyecatcher. I'd buy a tee with that on it.

  • thelordreigns gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply

    Please don't change!

    I am in love with our current logo. The current raven logo looks and feels like a raven. The other ravens just do not make me feel ravenly enough!

  • Gypsie Ink silver member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    Try keeping the original raven without the circle and change the font to the new one you have, then place it at either end and see how that would look.
    Maybe you should have had a contest. Like a yearly one and give out a yearly gold membership with each years winner. Just a thought.

  • Sacred Ground
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    Change is always good, but let's not go beyond the box, or tradition. The last is my favorite. It's simple and elegant, much like the writer's here.

    ~S~G~

  • meltdown.
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    i like the second one best, if we must change. <3

  • NeonRose silver member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    If we must change, "soaring raven" by a landslide! Either soaring over or under the words..not much difference there. I would definitely buy a tee if it had that logo. I also think a new background is in order...but nothing too busy!

  • EternitysLastWish
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    My favourite would have to be the second or third. Sleek and eyecatching, yet elegant and memorable.

  • Beautimus Princess
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    My favorite would have to be the last one. Still has the soaring theme without all the space. It's different from the current one yet it's simliar so it's still like home.

  • Errant Panther gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I also like the soaring raven - still in keeping with the well known logo - initially my thoughts were the raven below the site name was great, but the one where the raven is above "ALLPOETRY" to me hits home that the site is aimed at helping us to develop our skills and striving to rise above expectations.

  • JustSimplyLissa gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    Hi Kevin,
    I really like the 2nd one. It makes me feel more welcome and home here.

    In regards to the comments about messages and notices about our favorites and the group notes. How about an Option? on our "My Account" options to choose whether we want to have the notes/IMs/Notices/Group notes pop up when we first log on or whether we want it to let us know how many we have without the instant pop ups when we log on? That way it is a middle ground for those who don't mind and for those who do?

  • faithwhisperer silver member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    Kevin,

    I think I have to agree with the "soaring" theme if you're going to change. I like all of them, which I guess is the second, third, and last. The idea of a soaring bird is, I think, a wonderful representation of a poetic spirit.

  • Lucian Valcor
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I like the first one Kevin I think it looks really nice more updated then the one we have now

  • Faithless Angel
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    i like the original logo, been on this site for a while. couldnt imagine a different logo.
    =]

  • Zahhar gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    *SQUAK!!!* ... Never more

  • Dragonsblood ink
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I'm voting for either of the soaring ravens.

    I really, REALLY don't like the first and last. To me they look very cheezy, like the text was there already and then somebody tried to add on a bird.


    Oh and I agree with Rose Of Ireland, I don't like being slammed by my messages when I log on. It'd be much better like an email inbox where it tells you in bold numbers on the side how many new messages you have.
    Like along the top bar you would have:
    My account...Add...My page...Messages (2)...Log out.

  • Kiddy
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    my vote is for the second one with wide spread wings....

  • Sgt B silver member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply

    If I had to choose.........

    I would choose the original one. I think the others look too "Cartoony" (probably not a word.) I don't think your original logo causes any problems. If your going to change I say change it completely, don't change it just to change make it better.

  • whos my humblepie
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I seem to like the idea of having wings being spread open. It gives the idea that people can come to your site and 'spread their wings' or, come under the shelter of the site and feel free to be creative.

    if you want to get cute, you can have the raven standing on a keyboard and looking at your old ap logo.-actually, I rather like that idea

    or, ooohh,

    the raven facing us, with one wing spread open and allpoetry wrtten underneath it! that's the bomb man, go for that!!

  • Frodofan silver member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    As a working graphics artist, I'm glad to see this. I have thought for some time that the logo could use some refining. I am liking the first and last ones best, though possibly just in a solid black. I like the idea of a silouette and you are right, the raven image is very good (much better than a quill). We know what it stands for right away.

    I think the image in the two middle ones isn't clear enough. If I didn't know it was supposed to be a raven, I might not be sure.

    The top one is definently my favorite, because the silouette is so exact. There's no question that is indeed a raven.

    • Kevin Moderators member
      July 9
      Edit | Reply
      I was worried about the soaring one not being recognizable as well (especially when the image is small), though it's surprising so many seemed to like it the best...

      Thanks for your feedback!

      • Frodofan silver member
        July 9
        Edit | Reply
        Thanks for reading it. I'm not sure most people would think of that because they knew it was a raven before, so they have that in their head. New people who never knew the old logo might not know immediately though. I know I've seen logos like that various places. In some cases, even years after seeing it over and over, I finally realized it was supposed to be something or other and it's always a very weird feeling/discovery. Ha ha.

  • Mr Sandman
    July 8
    Edit | Reply

    the raven debaucle

    i go for the last one.
    simply beautiful and simple too.

  • greyhaime silver member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply

    soaring raven

    the first soaring raven, the first logo choice is ok, but the raven looks so generic..
    the other one has some feel to it..
    good luck with this.

  • Rose of Ireland gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply

    Beautiful!!!

    Dear Site Administrator,

    I like your favorite choice also, Kevin. It looks very clean and artistic - 'poetic' is the word. This is an amazing site, and I really enjoy my time here, In addition, I'd like to mention something else that has really been bothering me since I joined this site a couple of years ago.

    That is, I do not - absolutely do not - like the way I am bombarded with my messages and notes the first thing when I log into my Allpoetry account. You have provided us with links we can click to take us to our private messages and notes. Besides the fact that it is aggravating to have to scroll down several hundred miles to view our own front page (underneath all the notes, comments, messages, new poems by favorites, new contests, etc.) , in my view (and probably other authors’ views, as well) it is an issue of a violation of our confidentiality - to have our personal messages up front and center for the whole world to read whenever our front page is sitting up there on our computer screens.

    For an example:

    What if I have company, and I want to maintain my privacy, but I cannot walk away from my computer for a minute or two because some messages and/or notes will pop up there for everyone else to read? Or what if, when I log in to show someone your website, all my private messages are already right there for everyone else to see and read?

    This also holds true for our ‘favorites’ – poems whose links pop up in front of our face whenever we log in. What if I don’t want anyone to know who my favorites are? I value my privacy… and I believe we should be able to access this information only when we choose, and not have it splashed across the front page when it may not be convenient to have it posted there - for the entire world to see.

    I wish you would consider keeping our private messages PRIVATE, and only accessible by us -ourselves - whenever WE choose to access them, and NOT every time we log in, or whenever we go back and forth between pages - between reading poems, making comments, etc. ..

    All these complaints are not just complaints, but are a real problem for me. Not only is the instant pop-up information annoying, it looks bad. I don’t like all the constant clutter raining in my face while I’m online. Plus, it makes it that much harder to read the actual content already there.

    The constant ‘ticker tape’ graffiti is all a major distraction, Kevin… Really. And please don’t think I’m a pain in the arse. I am a loyal paying customer, with an honest opinion about how I like my online services delivered.

    I sincerely hope you will seriously consider this idea to have it all stopped… Or, at least take a poll and ask what the other poets think about all this. I understand you are probably much younger than I, and of course you are probably of a more youthful (and fresher) generation’s mindset. So you may not see eye-to-eye with me on these things. But there are quite a lot of older folks like me who may have a mindset like mine, and who hate all the clutter and the genuinely painful and blood curdling privacy and confidentiality violations, as well…

    Anyway, thank you for your time, Kevin. Keep up the good work, aside from the annoying and embarrassing subjects I just mentioned…

    Regards,

    Cynthia Gaines, aka Rose of Ireland

    • Kevin Moderators member
      July 9
      Edit | Reply
      I agree they can be very cluttering; as a procrastinator though I like it b/c I can respond to things right away.

      You do know you can click 'New messages' and it'll hide them right away, right?

      I'll run a poll, but having some sort of option for it does seem to make sense; so I'll go ahead and start designing it. Thanks for the suggestion!

      re: favorites on the front page, that doesn't really seem like a privacy issue to me. When you're logged in is the only time they show up there - if you're not logged in, it's just the default welcome message...

    • LittleAnn
      July 9
      Edit | Reply
      You are absolutely right - I never really thought about this but now that you brought up this issue, I see that it can indeed be a problem.

      Kevin,
      How about just a note on top of the page, like "Welcome back. You have 3 new messages and 5 new notes. Click [here] to read them." That might be okay and not to hard to change because I think there is already a message like that when you have a high number of messages and notes since your last visit.


      • Rose of Ireland gold member
        July 9
        Edit | Reply

        Thank you for your supportive comments, LittleAnn.

        I hope Kevin will listen to his subscribers' voices. Aside from my previous "complaints" I think all the clutter detracts from the artistic qualty of our poems' presentations, as readers view each poem. There is a reason for the formatted imagery of each piece, and that's for the poetic quality, not for all the garbage thrown like upchuck all over a poem's face. Anyway, thanks again for your response. Peace, Cyn

        • LittleAnn
          July 9
          Edit | Reply

          Kevin,

          I have another idea -
          Maybe there could be a link that says "you have ... messages and ... notes [show]" but the link that says [show] shows them on the same page so people don't have to go to another page to view their messages if they're in a hurry or for whatever reason. Similar to the "Show poetry" link on each member's page, or like you can turn on or off the quick comment box etc.
          Would that be possible?

          • Kevin Moderators member
            July 9
            Edit | Reply
            Personally, I love the IMS showing up right away... but let's stick to one thing at a time on this column

            Start a post in the policy board, and we'll see how people chime in? Actually, I'll start a poll...

  • Little Miss Sunny
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    The last one is the best!

  • Schizo-Angel-Dying silver member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I love the black soaring raven even if it's a bit wider it's cooler

  • Miss Faerie Greeters member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    If I have to choose I like the very first soaring raven
    I also like the suggestion of a special front page background

    Miss Faerie
    Site Greeter

  • French Tries
    July 8
    Edit | Reply

    Logo

    How about Pegasus ?

  • Elrenia
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    The second is the best of the bunch. I am not sure why you feel the need to change, though. I think the current logo is very apt. I would actually vote to leave it be.

    rous

  • Pamela A Lamppa silver member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I like the second and third ones best. The top one kind of looks like a gull? But maybe up close it would look more like a raven? Not a big fan of those silver bars though. Just some thoughts.

  • StrayBullet
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I like the third one, flows better actually, and kinda makes sense.

  • BarbedWireButterfly
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    If we had to change then I'd definetly put my money on the second one. The first and fourth ones don't look convincing to me, the first one looks like a pigeon and the second one a strange dove. The raven is a much nicer idea so I'd go for the second one =D

  • BookGirl
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I think that the first soaring raven looks best. In fact, I think it looks great!
    To be honest, the first logo and the last one (the fourth) don't look too convincing to me at all. The fourth, especially, hardly looks like a raven. Looks more like a pigeon!
    Well, there's my two-cents-worth. Have a great day.

  • -BlackKnight- silver member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I realize this isn't exactly a vote, but I favor the "soaring raven" one with the raven beneath "ALLPOETRY".

  • Rhyming From Rehab gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I like our logo! I hope you never change it...but if you do...then my "second" choice would be 'soaring' raven ...but I will hope you keep the original...

  • neurosine gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    Soaring Raven...You could do a drop shadow down below the lettering to kind of mix the first and second...plus...the symbolism...oh yes.
    Maybe...it might not be so asthetically pleasing though. Simplicity usually is best for iconography.

  • The Third Eye
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    Kevin.. honestly.. I don't really like the versions you've put up here. I love the one we're already using, because it's almost realistic. It brings the raven to life. Plus, the versions you've shown us, not to be rude, but they're just too flat and don't stand out at all. They look like icons rather than a logo. And I thought the last one was actually a dove because of the gradient. No, Kevin, please keep the one we're already using. I know you want a change, and we're ready for one, but for a better one.

    Plus, I'm kind of bored of the default lavenderish hue. Why not have a specially made special BG for the homepage? Make the landing grand.

  • Darc Rebel Mafia 69
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    i really love the soaring raven and i also love the idea of it being made into a T Shirt

  • evilbatwoman
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    If we must change, then let it be the second one. I couldn't respect allpoetry if it had a cartoon looking bird. (I don't mean any offense because I'm sure you word very hard on these.) I am partial to the raven with it's prey. Also, the color change of poetry to purple isn't all that attractive. I like the grey and navy.

    Not to rain on the parade, but the current one is the best looking.

    I want to help you pick the best one. I do, but I 100% think that we already have the best one. I'm sure a new one will grow on me though.

  • mafiagirl13
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    I definately lke the original the best, just cause that's what I'm used to seeing when I sign in, but out of all the one's here, the second is my favorite. It's positioned perfectly under the name of the site and it looks wonderful...

  • Moqui Takoda
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    yer current fav is the best ... hands down the rest either look like trying to hard to be cool or somebody with feathers on their finger trying to make a rabbit shadow or something


    current one is fine ... go with it , oh magnificent one

  • raspberry Greeters member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    The last one u have here, appeals best to me It looks supercool!! But that raven there, when sligtly tilted, wouldnt it form a lovely 'r'.. how would that look if replaced for the alphabet 'r' in Poetry..?? just a suggestion..

  • IxWasxLost
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    i like the idea of the second and third. but i think as far as an actual logo goes the first one would be the most effective to get your poetic image across. but i think that a different image would be better.

  • Perfect Fox-Goddess
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    i love the second one, i think it's the best.

  • twaintwine gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    The first one is best, though the image should be a little better...it looks a little like a fat pigeon. But I like the turned head over the right shoulder with the wings tucked in. I like that one, but think the image needs refinement.

  • grannyeri gold member
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    Will never get concensus with so many options. Go with your gut feeling and run with it. Doing a great job!

  • MY lips will deny
    July 8
    Edit | Reply
    THIRD OR FOURTH...i like the idea of the bird overhead of the words flying above, soaring like a poet spreading their wings.

  • AllTheCyanideUdrank
    July 8