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I am in the process of starting a blog (yeah, a blog) about common disorders such as ADHD, Autism Spectrum Disorders, and various others.
I am concentrating on ADHD at the moment and would like to know what most people think it is. I would love any comments about what you think it is to have ADHD - not a medical definition - just your understanding or assumptions of it.
I may use comments submitted in my blog, but no names will be published.
Any takers? Come on ... !
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difficulty concentrating on a single subject for extended periods of time
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I raised two children with ADHD.
It is so much more than an inability to concentrate, though that is where it starts. ADHD affects your concentration IMMEDIATELY, not just extended. Think about what is missed if your brain is unable to absorb it at all - values, attachments, empathy. Children lie naturally, if they think they're going to get in trouble for something. They must be taught to tell the truth. It is hard to teach an ADHD child to tell the truth. The inability to concentrate on the necessity of it leaves them at the mercy of natural instincts. The same with attachments and relationships. Our basic human instincts are self-centered. Attachments are formed in the first 18 months when a baby's needs are met on a consistent basis and the child learns that he/she can depend on that. If a child's brain is focused by instinct only on the fact that the need is being met and not on who is meeting it, attachments are not formed or are tenuous.
Without the ability to form attachments or absorb values, it is difficult for one to succeed in life. ADHD children are self-centered to the degree of their disorder, bringing conversations back to their own interests, being concerned about how a situation affects them to the exclusion of others, seeking to better their own condition without regard to the condition of others. Socially, ADHD children suffer. -
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Thank you for your comment!
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I am not sure you can generalize so much.
Some people have it worse than others, and then there is also personality, hence there can be a lot of variation in how the disorder presents itself.
I think that ADHD kids can form attachments, and absorb values. What can interfere with that however, is the impulsiveness of their behaviour. It is often a case of doing something impulsive, then regretting it later, upon reflection. -
Children lie naturally?
Only a few habits come natural: sucking a nipple for nourishment, defecating all over oneself, making incomprehensible noises and falling asleep. Everything else is learned. -
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Breathing, you forgot breathing. And closing a tiny fist around a grown-up's finger.
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Do you have children? If so, did you teach them to hit their sibling or another child when that child had something they wanted? Did you teach them to deny letting that child play with another toy? We have to teach our children to share because selfishness comes naturally.
It's somehow comforting to think that very young children are empty slates with no imperfections, but it just isn't the case. It also seems to me that not seeing children realistically often gets in the way of really loving them. Very seldom is our love completely unconditional. It's just the way we are as humans, for the most part. If you're expecting this perfect child and you find out that he/she is a great deal less than perfect, it affects the way you see that child.
In my opinion, being honest about ourselves and our children and accepting the imperfections as just part of what makes us unique aids in loving and in rearing loving children. If I can accept my children as they really are, then even with all the junk thrown at them as they grow up, it is easier for my children to accept themselves.
When did you teach your children to lie if they thought they were going to get into trouble for something they did?
cq
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I don't think you give enough credit to a child's ability to learn on his or her own through reasoning. From what I can recall, and as I've been told, I always shared my toys. I always thought it was more fun to play with someone than to be selfish. I learned to lie to avoid punishment through deductive reasoning.
I've never struck any being in anger or to achieve a selfish desire.
I guess I'm unnatural, and you sound more cynical than me. -
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Well, truly, I am not cynical at all. Anyone who knows me would tell you that. But I am realistic. Whether a child exhibits a bad behavior because it is innate or whether they exhibit it because ON THEIR OWN they have decided it was the thing to do, it is a natural behavior. Why would they have decided to do something wrong if it weren't a natural inclination if natural inclinations determined their behavior in the first place? (That's rather confusing the way I put it. If you got lost in there somewhere, let me know and I'll try to clarify. Sorry 'bout that.)
If you never struck anyone in anger or to achieve a selfish desire, even as a very young child, then you are, indeed, unique.
Why do you think I am cynical because I look at children realistically? I work with children in an elementary school. I see the way they behave and I also often see the child underneath. They are vulnerable, powerless and sometimes insecure. They often react to these feelings in ways that are less than desirable. To acknowledge that is not to be cynical. I am an observer of children of all ages, even the tiny ones. I adore them. But I do not fool myself concerning their natures. Actually, that frees me to love them more completely. cq
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Believe me, I am not generalizing - at least not beyond the limits of the question.
I have five children, two of whom we adopted and who have issues with ADHD, even now as adults. My daughter was able to form attachments, my son was not. He has severe ADHD, although he would say it does not cause him any problems. That is part of the disorder. To have raised children both with the disorder and without it is to know the difference fully.
As I said, ADHD children are self-centered to the degree of their disorder. There may be variations in the way it presents itself, but some things are the same: ADHD children are inordinately self-centered. If they have a milder case, like my daughter, they are not as handicapped. It means that events involving other people are principally seen as to how they affect the ADHD child (it's all about ME) If their disorder is severe, as my son's, it gets in the way of any long-term relationship, friends, family, romantic or workplace. Empathy is in short supply for these children.
Attachments break down when the other person begins to make demands of any kind: parents demanding a certain standard of behavior; employers demand a particular level of performance, etc.
As far as reflection later, that will come only if it is a mild case. The more severe th case, the less reflection and the less regret. -
My thoughts on ADHD are comprehensive and insightful:
When the onset of ADHD begins or becomes increasingly noticeable
OOH I LOVE THIS SONG!
We'll all float on oh yea alright.. -
The good parts of ADHD, Mr. Higgs? What good parts were you thinking of?
celtic queen -
I took this as a serious topic when I posted my comments, but from reading the other responses, I'm wondering if I was duped. Lala...is this a joke that I missed? cq
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No,no, Celtic. This is a serious topic. I have not been commenting (other than joking around with Don, a friend of mine) because I don't want to influence anyone's comments; I need completely honest and authentic replies from people for my blog.
Boson Higgs is also a dear friend of mine, and very much an out of the box thinker (and probably the most intelligent person I've ever "known"). Sometimes his posts require a certain amount of "decoding". It seems to me that he is attempting to steer your train of thought regarding ADHD in a different direction- to make you aware that you are very rigidly making statements and presenting them as fact.
I think he probably became somewhat frustrated when his attempt failed. And actually, so did I...
My thoughts on your posts - That you certainly had a lot to deal with as a mother, that's clear. But also, that you made some statements about ADHD that couldn't be more false. I think that you were describing what you experienced and was told was due to ADHD. Somewhere down the line, I think you may have been given bad information. For example, being overly empathetic is characteristic for ADHD. A lack of empathy would describe something totally different, like an autism spectrum disorder, or a conduct disorder. And ADHD has nothing to do with a person's ability to form attachments. What you are describing sounds to be more related to conduct disorder, autism (spectrum), or an attachment disorder. And to say that people with ADHD are unable to absorb values? That is just 100% inaccurate and a harmful statement to make. These things may have been part of your experience with your son, but they are not a part of ADHD.
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Interesting that on the basis of two posts you have summed up my children's entire diagnosis - opposite to the diagnosis given by professionals who actually talked to them. I suppose we must agree to disagree. We spent years (13 actually) in family counseling with psychiatrists and psychologists. I've studied the phenomena surrounding ADHD as well as attachment disorder. I've attended seminars about both of them.
My comment on absorbing values was tempered with the words "to the degree of their disorder." In fact, that influences everything concerning ADHD. If it is a mild case, there is less of an influence. ADHD overly empathetic? Well, again, we can agree to disagree. I know nothing of conduct disorder or autism because in all the years of counseling, observing and testing, those were not diagnosed. ADHD was.
I was giving statements regarding my children and what I've learned and observed concerning ADHD in general. It is not me that is being rigid; it is the disorder. After all this time, I understand ADHD children. I work with them in a first grade class. Most of the time, given differences in personality and upbringing, they can't help their sometimes objectionable behavior. As they get older, that excuse is less acceptable because society expects us to be accountable for our behavior.
Mr. Higgs may be trying to direct my answers to a place he feels more comfortable with, but to me there is nothing good about ADHD. Be clear, we are talking about the disorder here and not the children who have it. Sometimes, though, in severe cases, it seems as if they are one and the same. They are not. Untreated, severe ADHD can make a child's life miserable. In its way, it is as destructive as cancer. Do you find anything good in cancer?
cq -
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I don't think that I attempted to sum up anything about your children. I was referring to some of the statements that you made about ADHD, which goes way beyond your two children and extends to hundreds of thousands of people across the world.
Untreated, severe anything can make a person's life miserable. I don't see where that statement is particularly relevant to what we're specifically talking about.
ADHD, regardless of severity, presents a person with challenges, obstacles, frustrations, & hardships. But if you really believe that there is nothing good about it, I feel rather sorry for the children you are working with.
I asked my 14 year old daughter to post the same question on her myspace page to see what kids her age thought. This is what another 14 year old had to say:
"In my opinion, it can be a good thing. People who "have" ADHD are unable to stay focused on certain tasks because their minds are so busy thinking about other things. People who have it, are able to think about more abstract things than those who don't. Meaning people who "suffer" from ADHD are more apt to see the world for what it really is."
I'm not saying that ADHD is a bowl of roses whatsoever. I also am intimately familiar with the subject. But for the sake of the children that you are working with, I hope you'll discover some of the positive sides.
You compare it to cancer (something I find quite sad).... and ask if there is any good that can be found in cancer ... and I think that many people find their strength in cancer, they find their faith in cancer, & for some people the realization that they're dying marks the moment they really begin living. Is there good mixed in with all of the challenges of ADHD? I think I just answered that ...
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As a ten-year veteran of the trenches of child care - in a recreational and educational camping environment, I have had exposure to perhaps hundreds of children with varying degrees of ADHD.
Let's be clear, here: most of the time, children suffer from more than just ADHD. We usually see children with degrees of several behavioral disorders, since these are syndromes that are symptomatic of brain/chemical imbalances - this is part of the reason that treatment regimens are so personalized for each child. Antisocial behavior is present in many children, but not all.
I think we might all make the mistake of expecting that we can draw broad generalisations about any of these behavioral disorders and apply them to all children who suffer from these imbalances. Just as with "normal" (I use that term with some hesitation) children, they are all different. This is true of adults, too, by the way.
I like to look at it this way: for instance, on a line that ranges from OCD to complete slob, I live more toward the side of OCD. Am I OCD? Not clinically. I do not suffer from the extremes of OCD (obsessive hand-washing, counting, or compulsive behaviors). But, I need order in my life - I have a place for my remote control, my glass of water, my mouse pad, etc., and I will compulsively ensure that those objects are where they "belong". Do I need drugs to regulate my behaviors? No.
Neither do many sufferers of ADD/ADHD - they are also living along a behavioral range/line (or several - as are we all).
When we try to push children into some neat package, we do a disservice to the children involved. Most parents recognize this with their own children and resist it when it comes to treatment options - and many of those same parents innocently find themselves expecting other children to fit inot the mold they have come to expect in their own homes.
I would say that I never once saw a child with ADHD that was not suffering from a range of syndromes - depression, bi-polar, anti-social, paranoiac OCD, Asperger's. I saw loving, young children and I saw sociopaths. I saw chaos and i saw order - and I saw children struggling to find "normal" within their own physical and neurological contexts.
As a child care worler and manager, I tried very hard to deal with each child as an individual and an individual case. Over a ten year period, I saw many of these children every summer - and their difficulties morphed over the years - and one constant seemed to emerge: as individuals, there problems were manageable. If my expectations were formed as part of a group dynamic, the children did not flourish.
I have only my own experience and my own research on which to formulate these thoughts, but, there you have it. One man's views. -
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You are absolutely right about ADHD almost never occurring alone. In practically every case it comorbids with at least one other disorder, like the one's you mentioned.
Those kids were lucky to have someone like you who saw them as individuals.
Let me ask you another question, as this thread seems to have taken a slight turn;
As a person who has worked extensively with kids with ADHD, were you able to see any common, unique characteristics that were positive? -
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I think so, but again, these are individuals. I certainly can't abide the notion that ADHD is at all comparable to cancer. Cnacer is a sometyimes fatal disease for which the treatment is often worse than the disease itself - this is not the case at all with behavioral disorders, in my opinion.
I remember one little girl - maybe 7 or 8 - who was unable to focus on anything for very long, who was literally bouncing off the walls (throwing herself against furniture in my office, spinning, picking up objects and putting them down). I spent an afternoon with her, while trying to reach her mother to determine why this child had no meds and an incomplete med form. (We later found out that Mom had decided camp was a great time for a "med vacation".)
She eventually ran out of steam (and we got her mother to bring her meds the next day), but we kept her in the infirmary overnight so the counselor she was assigned to could have a little order in her group of campers. Two things happened, though: 1) the child, with no prodding by anyone at all, really wanted to return to her group, really wanted to be with the other kids, and 2) she went out of her way to visit me and my assistant several times during the week, attaching herself to my hip at meal times.
That is just one story, one child - and I can tell you that there were others who were never able to be socialised in the camp setting - but it tells me that the very worst thing we can do is to set up certain behavioral expectations. We showed this child kindness and patience, and we were rewarded. Certainly, having her meds helped, but I think there was more to it than that. I think she genuinely wanted to be like the other kids and appreciated that we wanted her to be with them and we wanted her to succeed in the camp environment. -
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"I think she genuinely wanted to be like the other kids..." - on that note ... I can't believe you just said that! I was just thinking about that concept last night as I was drifting off to sleep. Without ever meeting this little girl, I can tell that you are right; she absolutely did want to be like the other kids, and was probably highly frustrated and confused about why she couldn't.
What it appears you did for this little girl was to separate the ADHD from the girl. It may sound like a simple thing, but I'll bet anything it was a rare occurrence in her life.
As far as finding some common positive attributes pertaining to ADHD, I think that people with this disorder have a great deal to offer society because they do think and see things differently than the mainstream. I think that they become stifled by the constant pressure to be like everyone else.
... and yes, the cancer comparison made me sick... just really, really sick.
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You have taken my comment about cancer and stretched it. I said that ADHD is -in its way - as DESTRUCTIVE as cancer. I did not compare its treatment to cancer. Of course each child is an individual and each child reacts to ADHD in their own way. Some of those who take meds, take them willingly, others don't. My children didn't like taking their meds, either one of them. My daughter said she just wanted to "be", without medication, like her friends.
Let's be clear here. I am talking only about the disorder, not the child. You mention people finding their faith and strength in cancer. Do you not think they were strong to begin with and that cancer simply tested that strength? The people involved went through treatments with horrible side effects. You believe that was good?
As far as behavioral expectations, I expect children with ADHD to present unique challenges. Every child, regardless of the presence of ADHD, brings challenges of their own depending on their personality and upbringing. ADHD kids just bring an extra set. It is, however, naive in the extreme, to think that society does not set up behavioral expectations. Even the gentlemen above, in his camp, had certain behaviors that were unacceptable in the general camp population and that he had to deal with separately. If children cannot adapt, at least marginally, to these societal standards, they suffer socially.
I truly hate what this disorder does to children. Otherwise delightful children can be ostracized by their classmates because of their "outrageous" (a word used by children in school) behavior. It can render them incapable of learning the simplest concepts without extraordinary effort. You may feel sorry for the children I work with because I can't see this disorder as a good thing, but you really don't need to. They are glad to have me there. They know, for certain, that I love them, don't judge them for their behavior when they lose control and that I am on their side 100%.
cq -
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Okay, back up a little...
I never said that ADHD, in general, was a good thing to have. I am very well familiar with all of its destructive capabilities, believe me. But you made the statement that there is nothing good about it, and that's what I am disagreeing with. People with ADHD (generally speaking) can tend to posses a creativeness about them that is just very unique and wonderful, they tend to work well under pressure ( as adults), and because ADHD usually contains varying degrees of hyperfocus, once an adhd'er is in their niche, watch out because there'll be no stopping them. There's good to be found if you know where to look for it.
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When I compare the creativity manifested by my daughter (and she is quite creative) to the social struggles she went through as a child, I do not see a positive. When I compare the "hyperfocus" (our psychologists called it "perseverance") to the inability to concentrate on required tasks like schoolwork, I do not see a positive. Not all ADHD kids are particularly creative. I think that is part of the child's personality. My experience with adult ADHD is much more limited, so I won't comment extensively on that. What I do know comes from direct experience from my children and it does not follow your comments. My daughter does not work well under pressure; she has to be given the same instructions over and over and she cannot bring herself to use "helps" (lists, checklists, etc.). I think ADHD has a direct bearing on each of these things. My son has difficulty keeping a job for very long. He works very hard and does not just sit around, but the severity of his ADHD prevents him from succeeding.
Again, I guess we must agree to disagree on whether ADHD can be a positive thing. I don't think so because of the massive struggles that it presents to some children. Nonetheless, it is part of who they are and if one is to work with children, we must learn how to work WITH it, There are all kinds of positive things about the children who have it; I tend to think they would be there without the ADHD. A creative child is a creative child. A child with an aptitude for math is a child with an aptitude for math. Is it enhanced by ADHD? Possibly, but I don't think it's there BECAUSE of ADHD. And it doesn't mean I have to like the disorder.
cq -
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I still don't think you're really understanding what I'm trying to say.
I do sincerely thank you for participating, though. 
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Perhaps not, but what I do see clearly, is that in your disagreement with my viewpoint, you are somehow trying to make me seem a villian. ("you are very rigidly making statements and presenting them as fact"; "I feel rather sorry for the children you are working with.";"You compare it to cancer (something I find quite sad) ";"... and yes, the cancer comparison made me sick... just really, really sick.")
I am not a villian; I care deeply for the children I work with. I just happen to disagree with you, but in doing so, I'm not going to portray you as some sort of crackpot. It's too bad you could not have extended the same civility to me.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment. cq
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umm my little brother has adhd. b4 he started taking his medication his school would call us almost every day with some new issue... his teachers would give complements on how smart he was just he would never focuss on one thing. He would play with cars while reading a book and then anwser a random math qustion the teacher asks him. now that hes on medication he sits still in class but we havent recieved anymore coments on his grades... in fact theyve dropped a little. also he never eats after taking his medication until around seven at night and he doesnt stop...
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hope that helps some
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LalalalaLoopstah
Nov 9 5:34 PM
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