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[EDIT:
For those following this debacle: there IS a way to salvage backgrounds as long as they don't have a border. Upload them and set the border to 0. Then choose the 'tile' option.]
I addressed this in the "New Logo" column but it's been ignored thus far so I decided to put it where it supposedly counts.
To be honest I absolutely HATE the new layout. If you want edgy and chic read a Vogue magazine. The centered layout squishes entirely too much information into one small area and leaves two huge swaths of color down both sides of the screen. Not only is that unnatractive, but it severely limits what authors can and can't do with their poetry. You basically have the option to left align it now. Unless your poem is four words per line the center or right align is going to be virtually useless. The centered layout impedes creativity on so many levels. It destroys time and effort that many of us have put into full page backgrounds and completely eradicates any hope of making more of them in the future; it restricts what can and can't be done with shaped poetry; and it also ensures that poetry with lines longer than fifteen words will run onto a new line. Also, it was tried and tested on SW and the consensus was that it was a bust (although I'll admit it was more acceptable than the newspaper style three column layout that it first had).
Here are my suggestions (all of which are compiled from myself and other users unhappy with the new layout):
1. Put the old layout back up. I know this is a moot point, but forgive me for trying. I know the innovation kick will not be silenced by such a simple suggestion. And so we trudge onward...
2. Put the new layout only on the front page. This allows for your new innovation to be seen and appreciated...but on a small scale that doesn't detract from the site's overall appeal (yeah, I've showed it to non-AP affiliated friends and none of them are diggin' the new look; one even refused to join if that was what he had to look at every time he signed in).
3. Put the new layout only in the public domain and leave author's pages, poetry pages, and group pages with the old layout. This allows for us to still put our backgrounds to use, as well as giving us a large space in which to craft shaped poetry or use the alignments without them looking strange.
4. Allow for an option between the old and new layouts. Myspace has the skin chooser option, so I know this is feasible.
I realize all of this is more work for you, of course, and I do appreciate what you do to keep the site running. But I feel like I should point out that it's the paying members who make the upkeep of this site possible, and it's the members as a whole the make the site what it is. Without either of those you have nothing. I may be presumptive here, but I feel like you owe it to us to at least address the alternatives I've listed. And maybe I'm just a lowly free loader as I don't pay for an upgrade (I just get funky fresh and go on commenting sprees to win the free week of gold or silver), but some of these suggestions were taken from other members who DO pay for and frequently use the custom background feature. I feel like everyone could be semi-satisfied here if you only chose to work with one of the last three options. -
I agree with you... The picture on the homepage is pretty, but the color running down the sides squishes everything together and it's so cluttered, it's hard to read.
But I don't understand what you mean by 'having the new layout only on the front page'. From what I've seen, it is only on the front screen. Other than the seagull and the 'read contests groups etc.' bar, but I honestly don't have a problem with that. I wish the seagull could be something else, but again, not a big problem.
And could you also explain what you mean about the center align problem?
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The new layout is going on ALL pages soon. Read the "New Logo" column.
Poems that are longer than a few words won't look right unless they're left aligned. Think about how small that space is. If you center or right align it's just going to leave tiny spaces that destroy the idea of the alignments (i.e. there's no point to changing the alignment because it's barely going to move at all). -
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ugh, I read it now... I hate the idea; I've been to StoryWrite once or twice and the side colors always bother me. And I see what you mean about the alignments...
How can we convince Kevin not to do it? >.< -
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I have no idea. This was my last resort after he completely ignored everything that was said in the column itself.
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Maybe we could start a poll? If he sees the numbers, maybe he'll decide not to do it.
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I would suggest that, but after the way he treated the logo poll...
The new 'seagull' thing? A small group of people supported it, but the majority vote went to a different design. He ignored that and chose the new logo instead. -
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hmm... I guess it's the way we go about it. Being polite is key.
To be honest, it would look so much better if the bird was flying. It kind of represents the freedom of poetry, I guess? -
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Haha yeah. I think it would look more like a raven if it was actually in flight. I'm in New Zealand right now, so all I see are these fat gulls feasting on garbage. And now when I see that logo on top of the beach scene it's all I can think about.
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I have a feeling that Kevin didn't do it on purpose... That he just had a pretty picture planned and it just turned out that way.
Gulls on garbage... Not very inspiring, is it?
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Indeed not. But...minor concern when leveled with the layout issue. Well I'm forcing myself to go to bed. Hopefully Kevin will have responded to this by the time I get on tomorrow afternoon. Ciao and thanks for the support!
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of course... We must pick our battles and the layout issue is a biggy.
Sweet dreams.
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I actually think the site looks much less cluttered this way. Maybe it is because my computer has a very large screen. One of my favorite people on this site has set her author page up similar to this more than once, and I've always found it to be a much cleaner and tighter look than how it used to be.
I don't know how this will look on poetry pages, and I am curious to see whether or not I like it there, too, but in honesty, I think the site got a very nice revamp, it looks more professional to me now, somehow.
I really like it.
My two cents. -
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I feel the opposite. I agree that there were flaws with the old layout, but this new one just squeezes everything together. That doesn't seem professional in the least to me. All I notice is that everything that once had a nice big space for me to read it on is now squished into one tiny space with two huge strips of color. To be honest I stare at those color strips more often than the words and think, "Why? You're useless." It's just distracting.
That was a big part of why I left SW and returned to AP in the first place. -
I agree!
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After you've been around for longer than a month, you'll start to notice that Kevin has a method to what others sometimes see as madness.
I haven't noticed it making its way to poems, etc... unless a person uses the default setting (I've been using default over on SW since it started... somewhere around mid 2006). If someone opts for any type of background, the border stripes vanish. -
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hmm... That actually sounds good.
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I've actually been a member for five years. Second account.
I guess I'll have to see if this works.
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First, thanks for your feedback. It is valued.
By "these lines" I assume you mean the fact that the page is centered? This is a common and "in" design element among popular websites right now. I've spent a lot of time doing design work as well as researching other sites.
There is a lot of research that has been done about the ideal width of a page, as reading shorter lines of text is much easier on the eyes. Obviously poem pages should not wrap lines; I'll be looking at various poems to make sure that too many are not wrapping lines. The final width that is chosen will fit at least 90% of poems.
The last few days I've spent working on a better solution to the left-edge backgrounds than is currently used on storywrite. It'll launch on storywrite today, and hopefully be ready for allpoetry later this week. Basically left-justified background will look identically to now, only the "edge" will be moved a bit towards the right to be next to the centered content.
It's important to my vision of allpoetry that it say at least somewhat "in" with the current idea of design, in order to find and keep more members in the community. I understand the look is too "modern" or "iconic" for some. Hopefully over time you will appreciate how it makes things easier to read, or at least just ignore it and get back to the poetry.
I understand you and your friends don't like some of the changes, but for now, I'm still pretty happy with the (mixed) results and impressions. -
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I want to say thank you, Kevin, for doing a great job on the site... And for listening to us whiners who don't like change. I guess I'll have to see the actual changes first, deal with it for a few days, and decide if I like it or not.
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Thanks for taking the time to read and reply, Kevin. Although I'm not sure if that was intended for me or the other person on the "New Logo" column.
I can see why you want to stay up with what's 'in', but what about what WORKS? By your own admission the new layout only accomodates 90% of poems. The old one accomodated for ALL of them. And what is so great about being 'in' anyway? Shouldn't you be innovating based on your own creativity rather than copying things from other sites? AP is about originality and I think the old layout had that in leaps and bounds compared to this new disaster. I still feel like the centering is unattractive, the border swaths are useless, and the layout is just going to stomp out a lot of hard work that myself and others have done.
I stopped frequenting SW because I hated the layout. And while I was never a fan of the split from AP and I vocalized it, I had to roll with it as there was no changing your mind. In the end it was the layout that finally drove me away from SW, though. AP's was much cleaner, more efficient, and made reading things a lot easier. I mean, really, all the new layout did was squish things together in very tight, blocky paragraphs. Studies prove that breaking down information into smaller chunks makes it easier to digest. This new layout goes AGAINST that.
As I said before, the color strips are useless and distracting. I see no amount of suggestions are going to garner a different result, however, so I suppose I'll have to content myself with this SW inspired nonsense.
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The only place I've seen the stripes has been on the main AP page. Are they other places? (besides poems that use the default background)
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Kevin is putting it on EVERY page in the next week or so. Read the "New Logo" column. Explains everything.
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Everybody reacts differently to change, give it a chance before you write it off altogether.
I respect Kevin's explanaition for the changes, give it time, it may blend into something that in the bigger picture will be much better. -
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It's already been tested on SW and it ran me off. I hate it.
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I spend as much time on SW as i do AP and personally i rather like both. Unfortunately one can never cater to the needs of all, but i'm proof that the needs of some are being served
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Ah. Thanks
If it's like SW, then with a background, it'll look much like is does now. (Differences will be the forums, which are actually easier to follow for some strange reason), and a few other things. Although, I always use the default setting, since I find that it makes it look neater somehow.
but to each their own opinion, I guess.
(I think I'll go find the topics that cursed this current setup, and see if anyone that complained about it now defends it in face of a newer change)
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To be fair --
When kevin initially changed the site from the oldschool (i.e. I joined this site in 2001..it looked MUCH different then) layout, to the one he had before changing it recently, I hated it. I really did. But you know what? It is Kevin's website; and he will do what he thinks is best for his site.
I got used to the change, and came to like it a lot.
I think the idea is not to start screaming and protesting "CHANGE IT BACK! I HATE IT!" but to do like Kevin has asked, focus on the poetry.. let it sit, you WILL get used to it, and if the layout of a site is enough to make you leave when the level of interaction and poetry offered is so vast..
then it seems you aren't here for the poetry anyway, but the functionality of the layout, I am sure there are other sites laid out more to your tastes, and I hope that they can satisfy you with the level of interaction, and growth they offer in writing.
Good luck with your requests. -
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I guess we have seen these "updates" enough times to know that, once the dust settles and the tweaks have been made, most people end up finding reasons to stay.
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Indeed.
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I've seen quite a few of them in the five years I've been here, but I never got used to the SW layout and I'm positive I won't get used to it here. Eye sore. *shakes head*
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No, I AM here for the poetry, but what's the point in using a site if you can't stand the way it's laid out? Anyone I associate with and have formed bonds with can be reached through different media than AP. And If you'll notice I wasn't screaming 'change it back' (though 'I hate it' is definitely my mantra right now). I jokingly said that before I suggested different alternatives that would better suit everyone and satisfy more of us than this abrupt change.
I've only been around since '03 and the site has changed quite a bit since then. I didn't mind the change to the layout just before this centered thing. I didn't like the SW split for good reasons, but I just started posting everything on AP again...where all of my readers are. I've learned that interaction between members on a site is just sort of touch and go. They're only willing to keep talking to/reading your things as long as it's convenient and easy to do so. The SW split killed that. Nobody wanted to log into a site they never used just to read stories.
The point I'm trying to make is that I won't want to use the site if it's an eye sore. Same concept with SW. I'll start using it less and less and eventually find somewhere else to go. There's also the custom background issue. We've spent a LOT of time making them and they're rubbish now. It's not a good feeling at all. Months...years of work down the drain in one fell swoop. -
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I've actually been here since 2001 - this was my second account, lol.
I stopped using custom backgrounds, simply because for me it is more about the words than the pretty page I put them on, I am not judging you, that is just my point of view
Also, if I wasn't a gold member, those backgrounds wouldn't even be an option, and I hate to rely on them and then find myself without the option.
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree, as I don't feel like it is an eyesore, and I don't really think kevin is wrong to try to keep up with trends....
he wants more members
this will help draw them
I have a feeling you will stick around, whether or not you hate the new layout
happy poeming
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It's not that people like DPC and I rely on pretty images and backgrounds. We don't rely on them. I, myself, rarely use the backgrounds that I create on my poetry pages. It is usually white on black. However, I do use the backgrounds on my author's page, and my group pages, and I make them for other people who want to use them for their poems, pages, whatever.
I have put a lot of work into those. Hours, days, and weeks. It's not about the backgrounds being used to express our poetry...It's about using them to express ourselves, and kevin gave us that option by allowing us to upload backgrounds onto AP for our personal use as paid members.
The fact that he is now butchering all of the work I have put into that is not only unfair, but it proves that he didn't even bother to take it into consideration. Did you look at the link DPC provided to her SW profile? That is a background I put together, and kevin's layout of SW butchered it and made it look awful. He is going to do that here on AP as well, which I find is rather inconsiderate of him because of all the hours people like myself have put into creating them.
Again, it's not about using them for poetry because I rarely use backgrounds for poetry pages...it's how much time and effort I have put into creating them in order for myself and others to use them on this site only for kevin to turn around and create a layout that causes them to become unusable. It is a pass time for me, but what is the point of creating them anymore if I have nowhere to use them? That is why I paid for a gold membership; in order to post them for others to use, along with pictures and tags. It isn't fair for him to take something I paid for away. He is using my money for this layout, and I don't think that money was put to good use.
Now, instead of looking at the backgrounds I created, I will have to look at butchered messes, which will then cause me to stop using them and go with plain black for everything, which completely takes away the creative aspect of the site kevin provided for us that I had liked so much. I'm pretty sure I have a right to be upset about this, unlike others who have gone as far as to insult myself, DPC, and anyone else who disliked the change, which is uncalled for and completely unnecessary, seeing as there are many like me who paid for gold or silver, and do not think they are getting what they paid for. -
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I haven't actually insulted anyone, just shared an opposing view.
Having spent a lot of time doing graphics, I do know how frustrating it is when you find they no longer look as you intended them to.
I won't go into the graphic discussion as it is separate from the discussion on this website and what its purpose is.
But please, understand, when I insult you there will be no question, I am only disagreeing. If that offends you.... well if that offends you, then perhaps you should ignore me
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No, I didn't say you in particular insulted us. People on kevin's column about the New Logo did. I am not offended by your opinion. I just thought I would tell you why I am so upset about this new layout. Not to mention that the big swatches of color are just a waste of space anyway, so I don't see how it makes anything better.
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as far as not getting what you've paid for
i'd recommend doing what many of my friends have done when dissatisfied with changes on this site:
stop paying.
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That's probably what I'll end up doing in the long run, if kevin isn't willing to compromise.
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Proof of the background issue:
The background I have on my author page here on AP looks beautiful. I put it up on SW today (which has the centered layout soon to be put on AP) and this is the result I got:
http://storywrite.com/Dread+Pirate+Clyde
I thought about buying a membership before this whole change came about, but if THAT *points up to the link* is what I have to look forward to for buying a membership? No thanks. And to be honest I'm probably going to end up leaving the site before everything is said and done. -
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http://storywrite.com/column/522
Don't know if you saw that column of the newest updates with backgrounds? -
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That's more like it!
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Your AP and SW pages look the same, except for the author name in the bar, and the font colours you chose.
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Apparently there were changes made. My griping paid off. Huzzah!
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That, and other complaints on Storywrite about the author pages being 'off'. Text is still a little off for left borders, but Kevin is working on that
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They could possibly make it a user selectable feature couldnt they?
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I went through the colourful fancy-background phase long ago when computers had small monitors. Result? Obsolete.
All that work is ridiculous now, to have the right margin in all its ornate glory there--but going up the middle of the screen, with text overlapping the right margin. It repeats its narrowness to the right... Yuck!
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The background issue is NOT resolved. It takes a chunk out of the right and sticks it on the left of the bg. RUINED. Absolutely ruined. *shakes head*
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And for the record, group pages are abominably squished now. Posts that are longer than a few paragraphs force me to scroll FOREVER to get to the bottom of them.
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Adding your reply:
Dread Pirate Clyde
Sep 8 8:24 AM
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