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I myself think this would be only fair, and would give the entrant a chance to explain, or justify - after all, they have gone to the trouble of submitting an entry. What do you think? Am I being too Alice In Wonderland?
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I don't think arrogance and rudeness should be okay in any situation.
The judges on AP are self-appointed experts for the most part. So perhaps their own opinion of themselves is artificially inflated. -
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is arrogance different from being rude?
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yes, you can be arrogant by thinking you're always right and you're the smartest, but hide it and act politely for some reason.
to be rude is when you manifest this opinion.
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I usually make it clear in my contests that I'll toss entries out if I consider them bad enough. If the author really wants to know the specifics for why his/her piece was tossed, he/she can message me about it.
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I think it would be more respectful if reasons were given.
I don't enter many contests and have only been thrown out of a few for things like too many words or something else like that.
I've been lucky that the judges have always had the courtesy to tell me the reason. -
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Usually, if I toss an entry out, it's because they either violated some cardinal rule, or their entries sucked. Sometimes I'll leave a comment pointing out the infraction, sometimes not. I don't think I should be obligated to tell people why their entries are getting booted out since almost every entry I do throw out falls under those two categories.
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I think if someone has gone through the time and effort to write a poem for a contest, then the judge should have the courtesy to inform the contestent the reason for removal of the poem.
This could give the contestent the oppurtunity to make an amendment to the said poem if applicable, or at least to have the reason why it failed to meet the required criteria. -
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I agree Lady Mak.
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I miss the time when there was the opportunity to do that - I know I once wanted to give an explanation but couldn't. But no, I don't think judges should be obliged. I do feel that if a judge dislikes a poem or something, they should mention it to the entrant, but I have had entries in my contests that totally disregarded contest rules stated clearly (such as in a theme contest for non-rhyming poetry under 20 lines, I got a poem with lots of forced rhymes, which had nothing to do with the contest theme, and longer than 20 lines). I feel that in such cases of blatant disrespect for the contest host from the entrant, the judge doesn't have to give explanations, either.
But then again, I think I've used the DQ thing like twice in my over 3 years here. Okay, maybe 3 times. -
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It's all about common courtesy. Of course it should extend both ways, but don't assume the entrant was being disrespectful. They might have misunderstood the criteria.
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I think you have raised a good point here arafura, and whole heartedly agree with this.
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uh like I said, I'm *not* even disqualifying those who just didn't understand the contest theme. Or if I just say I want "good rhyming" without explaining that, and I get "roses are red/violets are blue" kind of rhymes, I'll assume the entrant considers that good rhyming. But if I state things clearly.... I mean, I respect those who go a few lines over and say it... but those who enter a 100 line poem in my contest for 10 lines or less poetry? And such? No, I think I can quite tell who is being ignorant and disrespectful, and who didn't understand or forgot.
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I highly agree with it being about common courtesy. I comment on every poem entered in my contests, even if I end up having to remove it (usually for entering a gold trophied piece when I had specified not to enter any). People don't always read the rules as carefully as they ought.
However, on one occasion, the entry was so blatantly the exact opposite of what I was asking for in my contest, I didn't feel the need to give my usual in-depth comment. I politely said it didn't fit and promptly DQ'ed it.
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I think it's simple. Read the rules and produce decent poetry and you won't be DQ'd. Are the rules clear enough? I know I've run a few contests and my rules haven't been clear enough or had a loophole or something.
But...yea. It's not hard to read the rules and follow them as well as you can, I think. So...unless you want to know why you're DQ'd...message me.
--Aden -
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It seems so far in this topic that it's a generational thing. Most of the older poets such as myself, Lady Mak and pania think it's simply a matter of common courtesy to inform a poet why a poem has been DQ'd.
I understand manners and priorities have changed but I'd like to think there's still some manners around.
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While I do try to give a reason if I remove a poem from my contests, I have also had to deal with two or three weeks of the writer of that poem disagreeing with me and hurling abuse at me via IM's. I only remove if the poem is clearly and completely against the rules and criteria that I specify on the contest page and when, in my opinion, there is nothing the writer can do to make it fit.
I have had many entries that have taken the prompt or theme of the contest in directions that I did not really mean for them to go and I have never removed them. But there have been occasions that a poem was entered that had no relevance at all to what the contest was about (ask for nature poems about trees, get poems about demolishing houses to replace them with skyscrapers. That sort of thing), trying to give reasons for that in the comment box may result in putting in a comment that ultimately has no relevance to the poem and can be seem as disparaging.
For these reasons I don't think hosts should be compelled to give reasons for removing a poem from their contests, even though I do understand that having a reason and sharing it is courteous and something I would rather have regardless. I know of some hosts that remove every entry but the ones they judged to be worthy of award, they do this without reason and often without warning and I find that to be rude as well.
hm...perhaps I should have picked monkey, you can never go wrong with a monkey.
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Yes, it seems a personal reaction to being DQ'd is unavoidable...as if the poems are a part of your persona, and it is you who is being rejected. Good point, thanks.
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Why not? Then again, sending a note to all the entries saying that "I'm removing all those that do not follow contest criteria" should be enough if someone's poem is removed. If they can't follow the rules, then sucks to be them if they get mad at being removed.
I never remove... I just tell the person, in the comment area why their poem will not be considered for the contest.
BUT ... if the contest has to be deleted (not enough entries to judge), then an IM should always be sent to the entries to explain. -
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usually
an easy case to find other rule breaking poems that were not removed
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I think that a judge should always give a reason why they are removing an entry, even if its just "Removed for not following rules/prompt etc" it only takes a few seconds to do.
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this poem was removed because I don't want to see it overshadow the other entries
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It depends.
Although I hate doing it, I've often told people to write a certain thing in their author notes to show that they've read the rules, but only when hosting contests which includes prewrites. I find that a lot of people enter into a lot of contests simultaneously, mostly without even properly reading the rules. I'd send a note out to all the entrants, saying that I would be removing entries which did not follow the rules, but that they should feel free to re-enter if they wish. Then I start DQing - it saves a lot of time and this way they all get the same message, but I don't get pulled up for spamming by posting the same comment over and over again.
With contests for new writes, I have only ever DQ'd one person who reserved a spot but didn't return in a quickie contest. For a fresh poem, written specifically for a contest, I think an explanation is needed, but for PW's which have been whored out to sixteen other contests, it doesn't seem necessary. -
I see no reason to dq anymore with the new system in place where you can simply add all worthy entries as finalists and leave the chaff at the bottom of the barrel. You can earn back 75 points for running a contest if you have 15 entries, so why dq anyone? Well, I can see why you might be tempted to when they are deliberately harrassing you with an entry.
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Seems like commonsense doesn't it?
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at least, the way it's been set up for over a year now, you get a note that it WAS removed. That didn't used to be the case; you just would find your poem kicked out if and when you ever happened to look back at it.
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Maybe, when they leave the pen they're on their own - sink or swim, and no trying to help.
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Although new I thought the beauty of this site was to encourage and support each other as writers. The process of editing is one we truly value because it helps us become better. READ MY STUFF
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READ OTHER PEOPLE'S STUFF. Seriously, try the two poets above. Both ea and pania are excellent poets.
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You forgot to mention your porno poems
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That's OK if the category is Adult. A poet should be able to explore every facet of the human personality.
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OK what?
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well, not really
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I don't like to brag. Well, only in the poems maybe.
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Yeah, I liked them. A bit of braggadocio is fine with me. I want to brag about having a column on the front page. But it isn't there anymore so I can't.
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Maybe it's time to get the next one up there - will see what I can do...
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OK, I have another 2 at least in the making.
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Unless you are disqualifying entrants willy-nilly, what is the harm in sending a little note to each one explaining why? If you're too busy to do that bit of courtesy, then you're probably too busy to really read the entrants to your contest, anyway, and shouldn't be running a contest.
Most of the contests I've entered threaten disqualification for anything, even for just not liking a poem. That's just silly. Why disqualify someone simply because you don't like their writing? Just don't consider them as a finalist. Poetry is totally subjective, anyway.
If you have a problem with an entrant, you can always put them on your ignore list and you won't hear from them again.
celtic queen -
If you ever take the course about judging contests it speaks to the subject of being rude. We should never be rude, either in the contest rules or comments. I am wishy washy on the subject however ( sending a brief note ... not wishy washy about being rude) as I have been deleted from a contest and had to ask the judge why. I was given a reason and settled for it as "well, that's better than nothing" but I did have to ask. She said my entry was not up to par with the other poems and had no chance of winning. LOL.
Sometimes I think the rules themselves might be explanatory. For example if it says, "entries must meet the criteria or auto DQ" or Erotica will be auto DQ ... whatever.
I have had entries that had nothing whatever to do with the contest. Once it was a long, long, political harangue when the contest was for limericks. (scratches head)
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Speaking of entering multiple contests at the same time ... damn it makes it hard to find the right contest at judging time. Then if you want to add it to the finalists list or delete it or take any action, you have to look through the contest titles to find yours or wait till you get that little message that you can't do it ... sigh! By the way, I'm in the older generation being 60 ... maybe I just have no manners
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Tip: whenever you start a contest or enter a contest you can bookmark it to make it easy to access through your personal bookmark page on the site.
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I've always given reasons for removal from the few contests I've held; I called them rules. If an entrant didn't find it necessary to read them the first time, I saw no reason to tell them personally.
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maybe they preffer private messages
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This was actually required for awhile, but the code we were using didn't work with internet explorer, which obviously caused problems. It gets tricky because the pages are cached strangely, but I guess it would be possible to add an intermediate page or something.
Does the reason really matter though? You're probably still going to be grumpy with them for removing it anyways?
You could always message them and ask 'please, why did you remove my entry to the contest'? -
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I did that, and was ignored. Peer group pressure forced him to re-evaluate the situation and readmit my entry.
But it still seems very rude, to delete an entry without giving a reason. That is what I was grumpy about; I would accept readily being taken out of a contest if I hadn't met the criteria, and a short IM is enough to explain. Rudeness leaves a bad taste though, and isn't necessary.
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I have been in contests where I've never heard a word, either good, bad or indifferent.
It seems some contest runners just want to read, dole out points and move on. They don't want any other responsibility. Common courtesy dictates one should explain why a poem was ousted, especially if a contest rule was inadvertently broken, because it allows for repair and recontention for...GOLD!!!
It is probably best to enter contests where you know your poem will be treated seriously...and you, as a poet, too.
Let us not forget there are those who only run sham contests so they can award friends and cohorts! Say it ain't so!
But I of course did vote Yes. With the proviso that if a contest is inundated with huge amounts of entrants it may not be possible to be as courteous as one might like.
There is always an on the other hand with me. Why don't I shut up. Yes, I will. Zipping the lip. Taping the fingers to my hips as we speak! -
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Thank you for making my message short. I enjoyed your comment, not just because of agreement, but the laugh at the end!
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here's an idea--
marathon's accept almost every single runner. even paraplegics. even wheelchair bound people. they let 'em compete. and race. and you know what happens? exactly what you expected. they come in last. so don't boot entries. if they suck--then they won't win.
is that so difficult to work through? -
I won't wait for an answer
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Sorry, were you holding your breath? Here, let me take it...
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Forums /
Poetry and Inspiration Discussion /
Poll: Should a judge be obliged to give a reason, when he/she removes an entry from a contest?
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Just Mercedes
Aug 5 3:16 AM
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