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How about implementing an alternate page for Trophyless Contests - something more along the lines of "Inspiration" contests? I love the creativity of posting contests and see ing what evolves but dislike the finality of awarding a trophy which seems to rob so many of their joy and pride in their creation, yet, as the current system stands - I am unable to close the contest until I do this.
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Wouldn't that make the concept of a "contest" pointless, then?
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Unless points were involved, then it would not be pointless at all.
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double points for commenting on other peoples work
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To people like yourself, yes.
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Don't most people enter contests to see if they can win, and receive a trophy for their efforts?
To me(and this is my opinion), those that get robbed of 'their joy and pride in their creation' are those that assume they have the best poem in every contest, and get annoyed when the host dares to awared the gold to anyone but them.
Buuuut....If the trophy robs the winning poet of their joy, then why enter a contest that they know has a gold trophy as the award? And why not just hide their shame(trophies) on their page so no one can see it? -
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I am talking about hosting inspiring, let's call them "salons" then, where the focus is not on the prize but rather on the inspiration and the interaction, like in my Victorian Parlor Games where everyone has a great time until the trophies are awarded.
I have thought about the idea of splitting the points it takes to host the contest up evenly between participants. -
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If you were a gold member you could do this by creating a group, couldn't you?...or maybe there is a gold member willing to open a group and co-moderate withyou...then points would not be issue.
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Thank you but groups don't interest me. I have always made my contests available to all and would want to continue to do so.
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As I understand it, some groups don't require application, anyone can join...but then again, the contest/salon wouldn't have the advantage of front page exposure...announcements would only go out to members.
I really like your idea,I should say. -
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Thank you for your support on this.
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That'll be like buying a ticket in the million dollar lottery but without the million dollars.
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People enjoy the prompts and writing for contests, not just getting a trophy. We aren't all in here for the pixels! Plenty of people are in here to write poems.
I enjoy creating contests and would like to continue to do so in a more supportive environment that isn't focused on "winning". -
people also enjoy reacting/interacting with others who write on the same subject
also,
they could praise and point out disagreements without worrying how such actions would be perceived
in the judging -
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I agree that several people writing on the same subject can be a lot of fun and stimulating - it's not at all the same experience to just write a poem on your own and post it without putting it in a contest. I like the showcase and context that a contest provides -
and your second point is well taken. This would be great.
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So what you're saying is that you want to be able to post fun little prompts, have people write off of them, and have everyone read each other's work without having the competitive side of an actual trophy contest? I personally like the idea. Those would be fun to do, and you wouldn't need points to host them.
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yes, exactly! Thank you for your support. I was thinking Kevin could still charge us points in order to host and then the points could simply be divided amongst all the participants when it was over. That way this would not cut into his points revenue thingy.
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hmm, now that I think about it, points would be a good idea to have. You pretty much have to 'pay' to do anything else on the site, so it would seem right to have points on these, too.
You could possibly pay as many points as you want participants. Say the price was 3 points per participant and you wanted to have 20 people enter, that would be 60 points. The points price would probably be higher per participant, but that was just an example.
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I'm thinking the mimimum price to run one should be 300 just like it currently is. If you're like me and always try to award a second and third amount - make it 500-600 or as high as you like, if you think that entices people. Then with a 500 point contest with 10 participants, everyone goes home with 50. (Plus applause points.)
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ahh, good idea.
Would be still be able to set the max amount of entries?
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The only difference I foresee is being able to close the contest without awarding places. The entrants would simply receive a divied up amount of the points once a host posted the final notes.
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oh, okay. So it would be exactly like a contest, only with those few changes.
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no, these are nothing like a normal contest.
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I meant, the way that these 'salons' (was that what they are called) are held in the same way as a contest. The concepts are different.
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yes, salon's a good word for this - an exhibition by artists. Thanks.
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I think some always compete with or without prises
or disappointment
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I think most of the opposition to this idea would probably be related to calling it a "contest".
I think this is a great idea - maybe if we called them "challenges", instead... -
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ahhhh... challenges... I remember having those instead of contests....
memories....
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Nice new pick Surrey Girl
I find contests to be a challenge- I enter if the prompts stir the creative juices- I don't always win, but I am happy to have risen to the challenge. When I do win I am ecstatic because I have written something that isnt personally inspired and have been chosen as the best in the hosts eyes. I dont have a problem with contests, it keeps the site interactive and they are fun to enter and run
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It would be like having a workshop where the participants just compared and discussed their work. I'd be up for that. I always assume that most entrants' pieces are of pretty high quality anyway. Hard to choose sometimes. Then again, competing can be enjoyable.
And it would also mean the contestholder wouldn't have to worry about having enough points to award the winners! But some winners do like winning, I think.
All over the place here. I am in favour of your idea. -
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Salons would be an additional option that possibly give a platform to a different kind of person (one who is reluctant to enter contests, or discouraged about winning) or even for those who do enjoy contests.
Salons would be a good way for pre-writes to be revisited and commented on, too – everyone is always asking how to get more comments. These would provide a showcase for a central theme; presumably anyone participating would be interested in the topic and the salon could be a relaxed environment to find and review work in this way, since no one would be competing.
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Hey! This is actually a good idea- I seriously think Kevin should consider this one.
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It beats featuring, right? With a common theme, anyone entering might be interested in the poem and instead of you paying to be read & commented on - you get paid. Easy, right?
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i sorta skipped through- i don't understand the paid part- and I haven't been a part of the featured poem area - If this were my proposal I would probably be inclined to take the point system right out of it. But then again Kevin may not consider it if there isn't a point system involvement.
i just like the idea of inspirational areas (salons) where there is a host with good, creative ideas- and as you are well aware i think your ideas are generally quite good and I can see how you might really excel in this area.
I would suggest writing this up as a proposal and emailing it to kevin twice a day for a month or four.
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I say keep the points in so people like me can continue to run these and Kevin doesn't go broke.
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I think workshops are a great idea - they could be done as "contests", where there was just a gold trophy given out at random. Or done as columns and have entries submitted differently.
It just doesn't seem like that minor aspect requires the creation of a whole new area on the site. There are too many areas as it is, it all just gets confusing.
I'd even love to spotlight a "workshop" like that, it'd be great for people to enter to *improve* rather than win points. -
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I agree, there's too much going on here as it is. I have taken your suggestion of only awarding a gold and shall run with it. Thanks. xo
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Well, I do sometimes find myself wondering what certain folks enter my contests for... I mean, sometimes I can see by their entries that they just want the trophies or points or recognition, so I like your idea in that, and agree that not getting a trophy for what one considers their "best work" can be rather disappointing. As for me, I like the trophies because they make me feel I'm giving something back to those who've given good poetry. But yes, I suppose having that as an *option* would be nice.
...unless awarding trophies will go as a gold member feature, like the non-anonymous contest holding
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That's a good idea, Diana. Let's just keep the Salons in with the Contests, but disable the trophies on the Salon option and make it so all points are equally distributed to participants.
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Actually I don't like the equally distributed points thing... sounds a bit like those contests that give HMs to everyone. I don't feel anything about "winning" those HMs.
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The salon idea isn't about "winning", Diana. It's about inspiration, interaction, and writing. So it's only about winning in the sense that you are inspired to participate and may get something worthwhile out of it in the way of a poem. I think many people are put off by the competing aspect.
I also think it's a great way to have good poems recirculate and find a new audience without damaging their previous status as a gold winner (which is what people perceive has happened when they aren't awarded a repeat gold or whatever.) This would be like an exhibit of like-themed pieces which hopefully would get more comments and appreciation without the competing aspect.
As I said, I like hosting the inspirations but I am sort of not willing to put others down by awarding trophies to a select few each time, which is the inevitable feeling, if you don't get in the top three or on the finalist list.
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not getting a trophy for what one considers their "best work" can be rather disappointing.
doesn't make me want to enter contests again -
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They don't enter another contest if they don't win?
Sounds a little spoiled and childish to me.
Salons are a great idea if that's what someone is looking for. Contests are a great idea is that's what someone is looking for.
You can't even have a pre-arranged 'winner' in a salon... someone that would request the removal of the trophy, etc, since others would cry that the contest was fixed. If you find some way to get around all that, let me know. Sounds intriguing... and I'm always up for a challenge on the site.
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I haven't ever had that problem with any of my 208 contests. Really, I don't quite even understand your post.
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"because after someone enters and doesn't win, they often won't enter again." .... that's what I was refering to as spoiled and childish behaviour.
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no
just practical hunting tecnique
only a madman would repeat the same behavoir
and expect different results
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The idea of a salon is great, a place of interacting with other poet's for the fun of reading each other's poetry. I do the haiku workshops along a similar line, because it is for improving our work, not for winning a trophy. It is difficult holding a "contest" like this, because there are multiple reasons to award points/trophies: revision, critiques, etc. These things are not easily given under a regular contest format with trophies, unless you add another "contest" to award multiple trophies. (which I do not like to do)
I like ea's suggestion about being able to distribute the points evenly, if this option works please let us know, I would use it for future workshops. -
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Thank you for your support of this idea, azure, and for explaining how you would find it useful.
I have no desire to workshop pieces but feel that this option would be easy enough to integrate into contests - just select for the Salon option and disable trophies and distribute points equally. As I am finding out, giving out one trophy and asking the winner to distribute the points is not working. I also can not bring myself to give out one trophy randomly, like Kevin suggests. Who would want that?
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Honestly, I enter contests for inspiration, and sometimes just because I want a comment on something I'm proud of, because I don't like featuring poetry. I also enter contests just for the sake of doing something generous for someone else, ie, a dedication. I never do it for the trophy or the points and often could care less if I don't win. Maybe there is slight disappointment sometimes, but I shrug it off quickly.
This may be a good idea. -
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Thank you, Rose, for keeping this discussion moving. I also often enter contests as a sign of support and am only interested in the host's comment.
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Jun 10 12:31 AM
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