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A lot of contests I see have say in them, "please no rhyme" or, "I hate rhyme" and "rhyme effects my opinion on your piece." It confuses me why so many people don't like rhyme. Any opinions on this?
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honestly I don't know why
but anyway
most I trying to get confessions out of poetry
word games get in the way of that -
There are lots of contests insisting on certain forms or asking for rhyme, too. It's just a matter of taste. Choose another contest to enter.
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I don't hate rhyme, but it's not my favorite form of poem to read. (I do write some rhyme, though.) The reason I don't like to read a lot of rhyming poetry is because: most writers force their rhymes, depend on clichéd and pedestrian rhymes (such as dove/love, blood/flood, life/strife) and have an uneven and unnatural flow in their poem.
I like rhyming poetry, but only if it's written correctly. -
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rhyme helps me read through word I don't yet know
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I think any form of poetry can increase the reader's vocabulary levels. Although, rhyme can help connect unknown words with ones that are familiar and sound similar, therefore making unfamiliar words easier to remember.
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Likely because most rhyme these days is very cliched and tired.
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yeah, your cheezy potatos definitely do look so.
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Your point?
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mmm cheesy potatoes
even if it iscliched, they are damn tasty!
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I rarely write in rhyme these days, but i still do from time to time, but mostly its free verse. I find its easier to speak with your true voice if you dont rley on rhyme- not saying I dont like it, just saying how I feel. i think sokme people hate rhyme because there is so much poorly done rhyming on this site and others I am sure.
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not that there's any poorly done free verse anywhere. It's just harder to identify, maybe.
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free verse is far more forgiving than rhyme, for sure
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I agree.
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Seriously though? the reason people detest rhyme is because they had a bad bad teacher who told them that it went out of style during the last century.
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that is quite likely the case for a lot of people
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'bad bad teacher who told them that it went out of style during the last century. '
Hmmm. Having met a lot of teachers of Literature, I'd venture it would be one who made the opposite error- presenting rhyme as some mathematical chore, produced only by lofty poets (not humble kids), to be counted formally and admired from afar, NEVER merely enjoyed - then telling the kids that they won't 'manage' rhyme so just stick to the acrostics.
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well, that may well be, and that would not be good either, but THIS is what I have seen. Creepy dismissal of the entire history and culture of poetry just because rhyme hasn't been the "in" thing and writing it won't get you into XYZ lit mag, (((some say.)))
Of course, these same people have to discount the massive appeal of most modern lyrics or even say it's not poetry. LOL.
I have actually tried to get administration to ban any wording on contests that deride rhyme because I was so horrified by the attitude. -
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Interesting- in my experience working as an English teacher in the UK, I've seen rhyme held up as 'too difficult' for young people. It's been presented as historical, but with that strange idea that because it is old it's perfect and unachievable for anyone nowadays. I've heard the words 'this poem is hard for the kids to access BECAUSE IT RHYMES'.
That attitude, teamed with insecurity, leads to the assumption that rhyme is either 'of the past' or 'too hard'.
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I think Deecrepit nailed it when she said it was a "language" - true, not everyone has a talent for language.
It's hardly of the past, though. What do UK lit teachers think rap is? -
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Poetry
It's just that the majority of pre-twentieth century verse is rhymed, whilst free verse and rhyme are represented in more modern works.
IMO, many of those teachers confuse end rhyme with the complexity of Blake, Shakespeare, Marlowe, Donne etc', and use the end-rhyme situation as shorthand for their own shortcomings in breaking down the poems for their students. I've taught less able students who have managed Shakespeare and Blake, so it is perfectly achievable. Being negative or making assumptions about difficulty (for the students) based on one's own insecurities is often the issue.
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Horrified, eh? How do you manage to function? Yours would be an inspiring story. The Lifetime channel could make a treacly-sweet television movie out of your struggle.
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well, one way I manage is
I eat cheezy party potatoes whenever I can get my hands on 'em.
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i don't love rhyme because every time i try to do it, it becomes awful and I lose my original intent (hence, I suck at rhyming, traditionally at least)
I read MORE bad rhyming than free verse, because, as mentioned before, free verse is far more forgiving.
I've tried not to disallow it from contests of late, and even made exceptions for those who I know can do it skillfully.
There was no teacher who influenced these opinions, though.
I like many of the old poets who wrote rhyme, I don't feel like it is tired or out of date, I just feel like it takes a real skill to do it well, and when it isn't done well, it is painful to read. -
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My father has started writing poetry lately, and he's been asking me to read, and critique his work. And, though he's improving, his rhyming is a headache. You'd think from all the poems I've read, and critiqued on here that I'd be numb to it by now but really, not so much.
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I thought people detested rhyme because they were forced to read Shakespeare every single year of their education 'til they graduated?
That's the only poet that was presented to the students in the school system I went through. It wasn't until 10th grade that another one was presented, also an Englishman but more rhyming. -
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some states give regents diplomas in English; New York and California. (I'm talking about high school level). I never realized how much more that must demand until I came on the internet. Seriously. There's a huge discrepancy state to state in what is taught or should I say, "introduced."
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I grew up in the southern United States where they love their country, and all that other bullshit. I found it weird that they were teaching a writer who wasn't American.
It wasn't just bad education in literature we received, it was a bad education all around.
My brother had a 3.8 GPA (which is high) when he dropped out in his Junior year in High School. He got his GED and moved on to college by the time he was about to turn 18.
That's what a lot of students did back then when the school system in my state was shitty: they'd drop out, get their GED and go on to college. It was much more simpler. I did it, too. I dropped out when I was legally able to, and I went and registered for college (while going through a program in the college to get my GED) when I decided to join the Navy; and then the Navy stated they'd put me through the program, all I had to do was pass the ASVAB, and since my math was a bit poor, I had to study on that. Then I moved but still was pursuing a career in the Navy but then I got into a car accident which messed up my knees for life. No more Navy. Then other things in life got in my way so no GED, no college (though I do have 1 semester of college) etc.
And this is where I am now. Sure, I could get that stuff now but I don't care about any of it anymore. For that, I have myself to blame -- for the shitty education I had, and being bad at math, I blame the state of Florida.
-Nam -
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yes, I don't think I managed the regents diploma in math, either. lol-
Anyway, I didn't encóunter this hatred of rhyme in high school or college (probably because I didn't study literature.) I encountered it on the internet. And a bit in the publishing industry when I was trying to publish a children's book in the early 1990s and at least one major publisher in New York told me, no rhyme, no talking animals, (at that time.) -
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When I took college poetry classes,
I don't think rhyme was accepted.
At least, I don't remember seeing rhyme much
or writing rhymes when writing for class.
The idea was to focus on imagery.
hmm
I wonder if that arrested my growth in writing
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by the way, everyone always refers to Robert Frost as being a rhymer (somehow he managed it in the 20th century - don't ask me how) but he wrote lots of pieces in what must be considered to be free verse - in dialect. That is, it sounds like how people talk.
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rhyme is an art form
to rhyme with feeling is a blessing....i think people who say that rhymes are forced, really don't know what they're talking about...i have written many pieces with rhyme and none are forced though people who are sickened by rhyme think so...i don't get it -
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Most of the rhymes I've read on this website have been forced or inappropriately placed. Or just plain awful.
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It's not that most of those people actually hate rhyme but the fact that most on this website who think they know how to rhyme actually do not. It becomes quite a headache after awhile to the point where you just don't want to read it anymore.
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I just wish people would concentrate on being curt
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Every time I rhyme it feels like reels of imagination just hasten to my mind's eye.
Rhyme is far more powerful than free-verse. That is why apparently so few poeple can wield it. But keep up the forced rhymes, people. Once they're written, the poem will rewrite itself as you review it. Then you can enter the stage of poetry.
Clearly some people don't rewrite. It's hard balancing rhythm, rhyme and reason (ideas) first time.
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Actually, I find free verse more powerful. Sure, anyone can write free verse but the same can be said that anyone can rhyme. There are different levels.
Let's say there's a scale of 1 to 10 of those who rhyme. 95% of those who rhyme on this website are under 5, 5% are at 5 or higher.
Same with free verse, on a scale of 1 to 10 of those who write in free verse, I'd say only about 20% are at 5 and above, and the rest are under 5.
But this is for any form. There's no one easy form to write; just because anyone may be able to write the genre, doesn't mean they do it well.
On rhyme I think I'm at a 6.5.
On free verse I think I'm at a 8.2.
On sonnets which is form and rhyme, I'm at a 2.
On haiku which is mainly free verse I think I'm at a 7.1.
etc.
I think my scale of free verse is so high because that's mainly what I write in, and what I focus my writing in, and how to write in it in the way in which I do. Not many people can write free verse in the manner in which I do it, and therefore probably would fail terribly at it.
As a poet in general I think I'm at a 6.8 out of 10. 10 years ago I was somewhere around 2.5. I've grown a lot in 10 years. Perhaps in another 10 years I'll be at 8 or 9. Probably never be at a 10 but I don't care, I'm not a perfectionist.
I do agree that most on this website (or in general) probably do not rewrite because they most likely spend who knows how long on the poem they wrote that still is badly written, and since their intellect of poetry is probably less of what they even wrote, they find what they wrote to be good. The same with those who are their readers. Those who like those sort of poems are at that poetic intellect, and either do not understand above it or they do and they are just easily amused or stupid. Either way. -
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I bought pants with a 38 inch waist
when I should have bought 36 inch
I thought my 30's were over -
I've really worked hard to attain a 5.5 in free verse, even harder to get up to a three or four in rhyme.
It seems to me that GOOD rhyme is much more difficult to accomplish. The pitfalls of force and, worse, hallmarky crap are so easy to fall into. After writing a great many sonnets, I feel that I can now claim a few that attain mediocre status. I can write mediocre free verse in my sleep, and have written a little that is actually good.
Perhaps the difficulty inherent with rhyme just multiplies the likelyhood of reading bad stuff, and sours some on the forms.
Funny, I do notice a trend {myself excluded} for writers on this site to be nearly reversed in their opinions of their own work, with the poorer poets claming greatness, and the really good ones claiming less, or referring to themselves as mere students of the art. Odd. -
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Personally I find some of my works to be good but if you took that percentage of what I find good, and what others find good, and then placed that against the thousands of other poems I've written (guesstimate is now at 8,500) I pretty much suck. That's just reality.
The question becomes: Is the poet great because of a few poems or the entirety of the poet's work?
Meaning: if one can find 50 poems that are shite yet can find 5 that are outstanding will the poet be judged on the 5 that are outstanding, or all 55 poems?
I dislike every poem that Matthew Arnold has ever written (that I've read) but I'm sure I could find one that I like. So, if I find one that I like should my opinion of his work change, or should it stay the same?
You see what I'm saying?
-Nam -
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!0/4
Example-
I REALLY HATE Billy Collins because the first few {famous} examples I read were the anti-christ of poetry, horrible stuff about things and nothing he knew nothing about in terrible prose with line breaks. Also, he was touted as the voice of "blue collar America, when his bio shows that he is a pure academic, having scarsely worked a day in his life. My opinion was formed by the fact that he was named laureate based on really bad crap.
I have since happened on a couple of his pieces that were above-average and heard him read stuff that was not awful either, but my opinion stands.
Likeways, even though a few of mine are pieces that actually blow me away, so much of the 1400 pages I've saved are filler at best, crap at worst, that, on balance, I think I'm nearly as bad as Collins.
I wonder; do you find that others are lukewarm on your best, and giddy over the stuff you aren't very satisfied with? I find enough of that trend to question my own taste.
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I love rhyme if flows smoothly with the meter . . . otherwise, I'd rather it be absent from the poem. I write mostly in rhyme, and I can only determine by the critiques of my work that it's semi-decent. I can only pray someone will be honest if my rhyming is really bad.
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Honestly? I dislike using rhyme, it's a pain in the ass to write because I can't concentrate on it long enough, and I've gotten sick over the years of people writing horribly-forced rhymes and using reversed syntax in a misguided effort to make it work. So, I just ban the stuff altogether in my contests.
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No one really knows where rhyme came from... it seems to be playful or require a playfulness though - and it may be rooted in magic, used for spells.
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Made them easier for bards to memorise.
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I don't write in rhyme for choice
I've written one poetry in rhyme, it's in Italian, my native language.
Written in 2 days purely for stylistic experimentalism, is in Dantesque rhyme, the one of my poetries in rhyme. I haven't written other poetries in rhyme for choice.
For me the rhyme blocks or restricts poetic inspiration.
Would you like to read it? -
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rhyme path can be inspiration
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I believe it is more difficult to reach deep meanings without rhyme that with it.
I want to be simple and deep in my poetries.
Then we must look again the musicality of verse.
More difficult thing, if it isn't written in rhyme.
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I think a lot of people are sick of people rhyming love and dove. Or something else over done. I always say if you are going to rhyme, make it good. I don't have a problem with it. I acutally like it a lot. I just hate then I get night and fight... or something like that. Bigger words please.
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you all seem to be speaking of end line rhyme, which is only one way of using rhyme. Erratic rhyme in free verse is a great effect, as is near-rhyme. In fact, if you were to study free verse that pleases you, you may find that rhyme has been used cleverly inside the lines, at the beginning of lines instead of the end, etc. IMO.
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Right on, pania... and there are plenty of free verse poets who even incorporate end-line rhyme.
I just saw a contest I was totally into:
. mental hopscotch .
better than ice cream.
by girl on videotape
Everything about the way it looked on the contest page called to me; then I opened it up and saw the big dick:
No rhyme.
Makes me recoil like the smell of rotten eggs.
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poetrytoopeneyes
Apr 22 12:16 AM
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