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Hi,
Just letting off a bit of steam on here, as I am so fed up with people asking why i dont eat meat when I mention Im vegetarian. I dont go around asking people why they dont believe in God and so forth. Its kind of rude. Especially when they challenge you on your views. I can deal with someone asking if its in respect or out of curiosity, thats great if they are interested, but not when its because they want to challenge your views and tell you that you are wrong.
Particularly when a lot of these people are very ignorant and dont know - or want to learn the truth before they start throwing 'facts' into the conversation which are totally false.
For example I have had a person argue with me about milk - saying that humans are not doing any harm to the cows by drinking milk, they naturally supply it, and it would be wasted otherwise so we are actually using resources which are there anyway, which must be a good thing.
It seems there is a lot of ignorance in the world, and I think this may be because as children we are told cows produce milk. What children arent told, and no-one bothers to find out when they are older, before engaging in arguments with vegans etc, is that they only produce milk (like any other creature does) when they are pregnant!!, and therefore in order to keep up the constant supplies of milk we want, cows are made pregnant deliberately to then be milked, and if the calf is male, probably be killed for meat, if female, it will probably become another tool for the milk industry like some mechanical machine.
I think the whole thing is disgusting and I hate the fact that people try to disagree with vegetarians, just because they are still in a minority, out of ignorance or an attitude of 'its not my problem'. I hope there are some people on here who can see where I'm coming from and support me.
Have a great day!
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Who are these people who are challenging you on this topic? If they are strangers, just laugh and walk away. Why waste energy speaking with ignorant people?
If they are friends - well, they aren't really GOOD friends, are they? They would accept your choice to be a vegetarian and not argue the point if they were really true friends.
If they are people you are related to genetically (what some refer to as family) then I would just let them rant and I'd remain silent until they were finished. I would simply refuse to debate the issue with anyone. It's your choice - you've done your homework - you know the facts - so be it. Leave them to their rantings.
Cris -
Pumped up with hormones and drugs, dairy cows spend a few years in a concrete stall or filthy feed lot before they dry up and are sent to slaughter. Most calves born to dairy cows are quickly separated from their mothers, confined in tiny pens, and then killed for veal after only a few months of life. Chickens are crammed together in tiny cages and have their breaks clipped to prevent them from self-mutilating due to stress. Death is merciless and inevitable: a bolt gun or a knife ends a life spent in hell.
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Hmmm. Our cattle were always treated well. We used no hormones or antibiotics before butchering. They lived out in the field for over a year and when penned up were kept in clean hay and well fed. And, they do not spend years on concrete; the optimal age for butchering is eighteen months. The only ones you will see that old are breeding stock that do not produce any longer. Most dairy calves are separated from their mothers so the cow will continue to produce. They are allowed to nurse for the first day or so for health reasons. Most of the cattle we bought were dairy calves. Yes, there are calves killed for veal, but it is better than the authentic way of doing it: kill a pregnant cow for the fetus. I agree with the chickens, which is why we try to buy only free range chicken eggs.
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I was a vegan until I got married.
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um, not all animals have life's like that, actully, most are treated proporly, especially in the u.s. because of strict & inforced animal abuse organizations & laws. don't believe everything you see online (exspeccially if it has to do with peta)
i'm a veggitarian to, and i understand what you mean, but i kind of like it because i LOVE to debate. but i understand your frustration.
if your ever in a debating mood when someone asks you that,and they're like "they're already dead." or "people are going to kill them no matter what you do. that's what they're here for." this is what i use....
because we can better ourselfs. should we give into the impulses to hurt ir kill, to take whatever we want from those weaker? Is it right to disregaurd the feelings of others? We are made imperfect and must guard against our flaws least they destroy us.
if u want a shorter one...
why cause unnessacary suffering?
keep on doing the right thing! come join the group, SAAAFFAR, it stands for Students Against Animal Abuse Fighting For Animal Rights
lots o' love,
gooshawn <3 xoxo -
Actually, what I've learned so far from my research, cows are kept on hormones that keep them producing milk. Not keeping them pregnant.
But yes, I agree with you. Back when I was vegitarian, (I had to stop because I needed more protien -- badly), people would always give me crap for my views. No one has a right to tell anyone their opinions are wrong. Because it's hypocritical bull...yeah.
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What you brought up about protein is my only concern with a vegan diet. Is it possible to get to achieve a diet with 20% protien? Science has shown you need at least that much to stay healthy.
I'm all for not supporting needless neglect and disrespcet towards animals, but is sacrificing one's body worth it?
Understand I treat everyone with full and equal respect and know how important your beliefs are to you. -
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Well, I think the reason I had to quit wasn't because I couldn't get 20% protein, but because I needed more for that. I was training for my black belt, you see. But in most cases, a diet with around 20% protein isn't very hard to achieve latley, with the introduction of high protein soy meats, but I just needed more than that.
:]
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I agree completely... I am vegetarian and everyone whom I tell, or whoever finds out - seems to challenge my opinion. It si my opinion, not theirs so they have no reason to challenge and yet the do anyways. It does get annoying, but some people really don't understand. Alot of them do it just to annoy you or to get on your nerves. What most bothers me is when people come up to me and say "I ate a deer last night for dinner. I went up and shot it, it even had a baby- I killed it too." That bothers me because first off - It's usually a lie, and second off... why are they telling me? I fully understand where you are coming from and sympathize with you.
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Hey
Hey Jaylee, thanks for the support, that was exactly the kind of immature horrible comments I was referring to. I had a look at your poems and was really impressed by the way. Keep up the good work, and its nice that there are some people here who can relate to what I have said :-) xx
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"is stunned" omg, I never knew about that milk-producing thingie! I just thought that cows unlike other creatures can produce milk normally.. I should have known
If I come across u or any other vegetarian, I'd probably ask those questions, but by curiousity only, not for bashin. I myself am interested in turning vegan, so I'd add to those questions asking about how to live just on vegies etc.. I'm not a vegan at the moment, but I know how it feels like to be bashed about ur believes by people that don't really know, it's annoying - u'v got me fully supporting u, I just hope that that problem stops from occuring to u "huggles"
X Marina X -
I agree. I went veggie when I was in 6th grade so all through middle school and still now, to some extent, I had far too many encounters with ignorant kids. It's annoying, disappointing, and downright outraging. I love a good debate but there are certain topics I get fed up with having to defend. This is my choice. I'm not forcing it upon anyone else; why should I have to face so much resentment?
I haven't encountered as much in the past year or so but the arguments I used to find were just amazingly idiotic: If God didn't want us to eat meat, he wouldn't have made cows. Or... Well, it's already dead, so you might as well eat it. -
I know
I'm 12 right now and after seeing a couple of videos on PETA(i was doing reasearch on P!nk and I came across it)my stomach just woudn't eat it.I get sick and dizzy.My mom tells me since I am native I need to eat meat but thats not true.I am on my way to becoming a veg,i am stilll young so i need meat.I don't eat as much as i used to but i hate eating it. -
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There's plenty of good reasons to become vegetarian, but PETA videos aren't the research you want to be basing your facts on. They tend to leave out things that go against their beliefs and exaggerate thing that make them seem right. They also seem pretty brainwashy-creepy. If you are seriously interested in going veggie, try and find more neutral sources to base opinions on.
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PETA harm humans (one dug up a farmer's wife's dead corpse and mutilated it to upset his family). Try a more respected source; google 'the vegetarian society' or 'RSPCA' for sensible, more honest advice.
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yeah. i'm not a veggitarian simply because my parents wont allow it. but two very good friends of mine are veggi/vegan. there is nothing wrong with it. and some people choose to eat meat... its not my favorite thing to eat.. but whatever.
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Merry meet,
I understand your frustations. I get the same thing when people find out I'm Wiccan and so is my daughter. We are not strict vegetarians, though we do eat a mostly vegetarian diet. I hate to say that every now and then I need a chunk of chared flesh. When we eat meat, it is usually from free-range farmers here locally.
Since I am lactose intolernate, milk is not an issue. Personally, I love soy milk, my husband is fine with it, our daughter on the other hand is still into a milk thing. I do try to make sure that it is as hormone free as possible. Sometimes I wonder about how much BGH we have already put into our water system, the same water we drink and water our crops with.
We try to be a fairly enviromentally aware family.
Amythest -
slowly but surely
just by the views posted here it shows people that vegetarians/vegans are no longer a 'group of lazy hippies' but actually people with something to say that makes sense.i'm a 21yr old guy and i'm not one to preach never have been and hopefully never will be but i do stand up for what i believe in. if i don't agree with something i'll say so. there is nothing i can do if i go to a braai (or BBQ in international english) and people are eating meat. i don't sit there and say don't eat meat its bad. just like i'll get offended if someone attacks me about NOT eating meat. what you do is up to you. i do however drop the occasional phrase like 'your dead flesh is burning' or 'i wonder how old that calf was when it was murdered' which i might add gets a few odd glances from the folk around the table. phrases like this said enough times do tend to get interest from ppl and many of my friends have become 'veggies' like myself. i didn't have to argue or debate they came to me and asked me questions and i told them how i felt, then let them to make there own decisions. even old ppl set in their ways have asked me (i live in a small town so i'm kinda the resident veggitarian) 'i don't want to completley stop eating meat but do you have any advise to try and cut down' which i give them. most people are doing it for dietry reasons which is a start. the thing is whatever gets the ball rolling i say do it because ppl tend to tune out a raving lunatic but when you speak to them calmly instead of attacking them it works better. It only takes a nudge to start a landslide. -
Actually, it's not just while they are pregnant. They only need to get pregnant once, and milked regularly, and they ciontinue producing milk for years. (Gross side track: I once knew a woman who breastfed her 8 year old kid...It was strange.)
I don't disagree with what you're saying about the milk industry being evil, I just needed to point that out. Details bug me. -
im a vegetarian as well so i know about the whole asking thing
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People are too attached to meat, they don't realise that we actually don't need to have meat once a day to be healthy, in fact in my country the leading cause of death is heart dieased cause by diet, ie over consumption of meat. We are designed to survive on very little meat, and obtain most our protein from seeds. Now I am not vege myself, but I believe in a healthy diet and as such I am pretty much a vege, (it doesn't help that my bf doesn't believe in supporting the meat and dairy industry) and everyone is always arguing with me, why are you ordering the vege meal when there is meat?!! Dude, maybe your fine with having a heart attack at 50 but I plan on living longer.
(Also annoys me that restrunts don't have better vege options, thank god for hari krishna food!) -
I agree with you about people asking. I think we should answer and I actually like it when they're genuinely interested. For example, I once had a classmate who was asking me about it and I offered to send her an article on why be vegetarian/vegan and she was really curious. But it happened a couple times that I felt the question was some sort of challenge. I dislike that and politely refuse to talk. What horrifies me though is not misinformed people. It's people who learn/know the truth and just don't care. That makes me sick. Although there are special cases and it's hard to be vegetarian in today's society. So many products contain odd ingredients... It makes me feel bad if I'm with someone and they offer something to eat, I need to refuse because you never know what they put inside certain snacks
Just ranting, I guess.
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It actually works both ways.
I eat meat. I like meat. What I don't like is when someone takes it upon themself to preach at me about the horrors of what the cow went through, or the chicken, or the pig. I live in Nova Scotia, and buy only local organic raised...grass-fed and grass-finished. This means that, with the exception of calves and lambs drinking their mother's milk, their diet consists entirely of grasses and other diverse pasture plants. Basically, free-ranged.
I had a friend once who, every time I ate anything remotely meat, would start on 'That's disgusting....." . "Do you know what that animal went through?" I finally asked him: "Do you ever wonder if plants can feel it when you pull them from the ground?" (Plants certainly can respond to injury and they do transmit impulses from one cell to the next, but this is not the same as feeling pain.) ... but it was enough to stop his preaching at me for a while.
I also have Vegan friends who respect my choices, as I do theirs, and never a snide remark passes either way.
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I've only ever known one vegan and that was my mate matt, he's kind of a relaxed vegan though in the sense that he used to have his weekly 'day off' in which we'd pop down the local breakfast place and get a full english breakfast, bacon, sossage, milk in hit tea, blood pudding, the lot
I think he called it being a relaxed vegan
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I tried being veggie once, but I ate a sausage roll when I was stoned... *shrugs*
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laughs at last comment lol.
I'm vegan, have been for a couple of years, before that I was veggie for a few years. I know what you mean, how annoying...
Anyone reading this thats thinking about becoming veggie/vegan, I say find out more about it, check ya health with the doc, although animal fats are the cause of a lot illnesses and animal fats are found in loads in dairy not just meat!
The abuse that takes place is out of this world. You gotta stand up for what you believe in in this world, this place is so corrupt, globalised and commercial that the powers that be will do just about anything to get what they want.
If you believe something is wrong then stand by it. -
I understand people that are vegetarian or vegan. I just admit I don't have the willpower to become one. My excuse normally is that unless everyone became vegan at once, even though loads of food and drink would be wasted, that would albe the only way to stop the suffering of animals. And that seeing as they are already dead, and they have already suffered, you might as well eat them seeing as otherwise they would have suffered for nothing.
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I'm vegetarian, considering week-day veganism once I've "finished growing" & left home.
But apparently, heme iron is an essential nutrient only found in meat, fish & poultry. I don't know all the facts about that, though. Does anyone else know much about it?
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meat is an important part of human life, but that does not mean we should be inhumane to animals in ANY sense of the word...
I personally don't really enjoy meat because it kinda grosses me out... but I accept what others feel about eating or not eating meat. -
This works both ways. People are woefully misinformed about vegetarianism, but equally there are many people who are misinformed about the lives of animals. The horrendous stories are actually the least often seen, but the most often stated cases.
As a meat eater myself, I will only eat "decent" meat - that menas good cuts from a good source. I will only eat organic, or free range, or farm assured, which means that the animal led a good life.
I see nothing wrong with people being vegetarian if the reasons are sound, but so many people turn vegetarian for more "fashionable" reasons, and these are often misinformed.
There are nutrients and vitamins and minerals that it is easiest to get from meat, but there are other sources. For example, there are 20 amino acids we need. if you eat meat, you get all 20 in one go. If you rely on vegetables and pulse, each type will supply only 6 or 7, so the balance is crucial. Vitamin B12 is only sourced from living non-plnt organisms, so if anyone is a total vegan in the strictest sense, they are a bit stuck. Yeast produce it, though, and I suppose a vegan can eat yeast based products.
It is certainly easiest to lead a totaly healthy and balanced diet by eating meat in moderation, but it is not unacheivable as a vegetarian.
I can't stand anyone being misinformed about anything, ever. -
vegetarians and omnivores should let each other be.
I think this is a very controversial subject, I have been a vegetarian for over 5 years, but I still like the taste of meat (I don't eat it, but I don't deny that it tastes good). I am a vegetarian for one reason, a lion kills and eats the antelope, but the lion does not fence in the antelope, fatten it up, and raise it for the soul purpose of eating. Therefore it is wrong to say that eating meat isn't wrong because animals do it, because animals neither hunt nor kill the prey in the manner we do. But in terms to why are we always asked "why are you a vegetarian?" I believe that because it is not the social norm (that doesn't mean its bad), people are curious about it. Well thats my two-pence you don't have to agree with it;.
PS. Also I think it is wrong to tell people why they should be vegetarian without them asking you to, there are a few vegetarians who only become vegetarian because someone shows them a PETA video or something. A choice like this should be based on what the person believes, not on how they are informed(plus not all information is accurate). -
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I know a guy who will only eat wild meat he has hunted himself. He moved to the city and eats a pretty local-food vegan diet, but he doesn't call himself that- he has a 'hunter-gatherer' ethos and if he ever went back to a rural setting, he would probably hunt again.
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TACO BELL *grawls*
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I dont disagree with vegetabletarians, I am related to a few, one thing i do notice though is that many vegetarians take a lot of supplements for their lack of certain things that they are missing by eating not eating meat. Iread somewhere that a vegetarian has to eat something like ten salads to get the same Iron as one steak. I have also noticed several vegetarians who look jaundiced, my wifes sister in law included, this seems to be fairly normal for the vegetarians I know. As to peoples ascertation that drinking milk is just "using a resource that would be wasted" i say bullshit, they pump the cows full of hormones to keep their milk flowing. so whoevr made that statement is a moron. so do you not eat eggs, cheese, milk or any animal product or byproduct at all?. for me that would suck. how about fish, do you eat fish? I cant eat too much salad, the green veggies are a no no for me. Anything with too much vitamin K is off limits to me as I am on blood thinners- and have been since 1985, so i could never be a veggie head, not that i would want to anyway- I like my steak and chicken too much for that- but good for you if you can maintain that lifestyle and remain healthy...peace
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Maybe they know you will jump forth with a rant. People are allowed to disagree with vegetarianism or ideas on animal welfare.
It seems you want them not to ask/understand in the same way that very religious people don't want their beliefs challenged. If you feel confident to speak in a positive way (rather than anger/defensiveness) you are more likely to win people round- avoid words like 'lie' or 'wrong'; remember that they might well have their (equally biased to yours) research to lean on. Animal welfare research is either done by charities for animals or the meat industry so is notorious for clashing badly. BTW cows aren't repeatedly made pregnant. Neither are new-borns killed for meat (the actual cruelty in veal production is that they aren't - they are cage-trapped and force fed). What happens is like a wet-nurse situation in humans; so long as the milk remains pumped daily, more is produced. Long ago women could be wet nurses for years after being pregnant once; the same for cows. The cruelty issue is the stress and pain it causes the heavily lactating cow for years on end. If you start like that on a pro-meat person (or even a clued-up vegan) they are likely to shoot you down for having a simplistic idea of what is going on.
I felt a lot of sympathy for your 1st sentence, but the rest, I don't think you deal with the askers well. They might be winding you up, or making you frustrated because they don't just agree with you all the time, but that is the nature of adult discussions. Adult discussions (not rants) are how people move important issues like animal welfare and diet onwards. -
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Hey
I disagree strongly, I dont not deal with them well at all. I don't ask for people to agree with me, but to look at the facts and not bury their head in the sand thinking that free range on the packet means an animal had a good life - it doesnt.
I enjoy a good debate as much as the next person and as long as it is respectful that is fine. The kind of questions and responses I am referring to are brash and hard and unrelenting. People who want to upset you and feel you have a duty to explain why you are one merely to mock and belittle you. I dont mind people asking but it is rather frustrating when as soon as someone knows you are a vegetarian they challenge you. It makes you not want to tell people. I shouldnt have to fight my corner all the time - I dont want to. But at the same time I dont want to - and wont - hide the fact i am vegetarian. I am proud to be standing up for what I believe in, but I dont lecture others and I expect to be treated with the same respect I give them. I am not a vegetarian who lectures others preaching. I give my view and thoughts which are passionate, but I dont force others to abandon their views for mine.
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No worries. Maybe your anger at those people was coming through so much in your post I assumed you spoke to them like that. If people are rude, just ignore them.
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...umm...actually...mammals will give milk as long as their bodies still feel the milk is needed.
A cow doesn't have to be recently pregnant to give milk, you just can't let her dry up. You have to milk her on a regular basis because it's when you stop that she stops providing milk.
being a vegetarian is a very healthy choice. -
Actually, the cow is going to become pregnant if you use the milk or not; survival is an instinct. And, the primary reason they produce is not because they are pregnant, but because they have had young. I do agree that the male calves are altered to become steers and raised for meat.
I will tell you honestly that I respect a person's right to choose their diet. I have no problem with a vegetarian, other than the fact that some do not get protein from another source. However, you should also respect the feelings of an omnivore. They have as much right to their choice as do you. It is like someone who wears fur: I disagree with the need for it, but I also believe it is their right to wear it. I would not, given the choice.
I support you in the sense I would support anyone's choice to do something.
(By the way, do you have any idea what goes on at PETA behind closed doors? There is a website about it, but I cannot remember the name, offhand.) -
I have a cousin that's a veggie lover; he won't eat meat. Unless someone else buys it, cause then he's not supporting the evilness.
I support Darwinism. -
I agree with you entirely
I'm a vegetarian too. Not vegan, because as much as I hate how eggs and milk are produced, they're a large part of most of what I eat (which really isn't much, truth be told). I just try limit how much I support the industry. I have other reasons too, some animal abuse and some because if the entire world went vegetarian instead of clinging to the old belief that meat=wealth and prosperity, there;d be enough to feed everyone and make sure no one went homeless again.
I have other reasons too, but that's the easiest to type.
I'm really tired of people telling me I'm wrong, or making fun of me just because I eat differently than they do. I don't mock people who go on diets, so why mock mine!?
I had one girl tell me that I should eat meat because that's why animals were put here. She's a christian fanatic. I got rather insulted, personally being an atheist and two finding her approach and tone very rude, and clicked that wonderful 'ignore' button.
I can't tell you to ignore them, to walk away, cuz I stick to fight till my face turns blue (and then I take a deep breath and start up again), but don't let it bug you too much. You are you, and they are jerks. Be content that you don't fall in the 'they' catagory. At least you care about something else in the world besides yourself. -
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"because if the entire world went vegetarian instead of clinging to the old belief that meat=wealth and prosperity, there;d be enough to feed everyone and make sure no one went homeless again."
Would you be able to explain that in a way that makes sense? (I'm not being rude... just the way it reads is not logical.)
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I would like to hear that. In this country, meat is not a sign of wealth any longer; anyone can afford some kind of meat.
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Not everyone can afford meat. It's expensive, and this country isn't the ONLY place in the world. Really, I didn't specify a place
And it makes perfect sense, just use your brain a bit. I didn't think I needed to spell it out.
Most of the grains raised in the US alone feed masses of farm-bred cattle so that we can use the cattle as food. Let's cut out the middle man, stop raising all these animals just to butcher them, and those grains we're raising just to fatten slaughter animals can go right to the people. -
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I agree; just let me put down my hamburger so that I can write someone about this. Sorry, I am one of those who believe that a balanced diet includes meat and vegetables. Nothing against not eating meat, just nothing against it.
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Grain is rather expensive too, in case you didn't notice.(or, at least here it is.)
Yes, you do have to spell it out if you want people to understand you view point.
Although, out of curiosity.... what will the cattle eat once they're stopped being fed the grains? Hay and grass? And where would that hay and grass come from? Grow it, of course. Where would it be grown? And who would plant the hay/grass, and harvest it for winter to feed cattle that are going to... grow old and die without giving the farmer a return on their investment. What happens to that farmer?
Cattle are not the only animals raised for consumption. Should they all stop being killed, and raised to... what?
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You are not wrong in your choice to not eat meat. It is not healthy, but it is your choice. And, as such, should be respected. On the other hand, those who eat meat should also be respected. And, to be honest, why do you think the animals were put on the earth? Everything has a purpose and a place in the food chain. Do you expect the animals to also respect each other and refrain from eating meat?
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Actually, it's very healthy
It's a less fatty diet, which means no clogged arteries and an easier way to control you weight. Point.
And there are many vegetables, beans, and other things to eat to make up for the proteins in meat. Also supplements. As long as you know what you're doing, it's very health. Again, point.
And most people who eat meat eat WAY more than a serving and take more than they rightfully get.
Animals take only what they need to survive, it's humans who're greedy.
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Adding your reply:
Joanna Higginson
Jan 5 7:30 AM 2007
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