Many thanks to the members of "in the burning house" for allowing me to join their group. I consider this a great privilege, they are a group of fine poets with great commitment to the craft and art of poetry.
Not that they are the only poets worthy of note on this site. I happened to pass a great author page recently at allpoetry.com/poets/Nocturne. Go read a simple statement of the qualities that should be absorbed by every aspiring poet, even if thereafter they decide to ignore them completely.
While you are here any comments on my poetry are welcome particularly those that are incisive. I like many am blind to my own words. I can see the flaws in the work of others but seeing my own faults is not so easy. So, if you see aspects that require improvement or attention then please point them out.
All my poems are work in progress. As Ezra Pound said, "a poem is never finished, only abandoned".
I have never written a poem in less than several hours, most take several weeks and some several years. None of these are awesome, brilliant, evocative or mind-blowing and I wish there was a way to turn off the tap that allows such cheap comments to flow.
My reason for being here is to learn from the poetry of others. I have seen and heard a small few and also seen in some techniques, lines of thought and idiosyncratic approaches to art that give me pause for thought.
Poetry is craft allied to art with associations to freedom of speech and expression.
You may believe that the craft, the technique and revision gets in the way of poetic spontaneity. Even the great poets who advocate this principle took care to achieve technical proficiency so that spontaneity is given freer rein by an instinctive appreciation of quality and beauty in form and expression.
Do not see poetry as being purely about self-expression, unless you want to remain in a very cosy world of narcissism. There is a definite craft to poetry. If you are ignorant of the craft there is a good chance that your poetry suffers. Unfortunately (or fortunately), the artistic element of poetry requires that technique and form present no restriction on the search for truth and beauty.
But ultimately truth, or the good or perfection is attained when the craft and the art are in harmony.
I am not a good poet. I am not a good critic. I seek.
If you want to seek real experience to learn from I recommend a look at Walt McDonald's essay, Advice I Wish I'd been Told for a clear explanation of common failings in poetry. It can be seen at
wwwstage.valpo.edu/english/vpr/mcdonaldessay.html
It begins:
Over the years, I've heard good advice from others; I wish they had told me sooner. Probably they did, but I didn't listen. What I'm about to say is what I constantly urge myself to do. I offer these comments to save us time, to help us strip off some ankle weights of language. The difference between second place and first place in the high jump, between the silver and the gold, is only about an inch. Ah, but "How glorious that inch / And that split-second longer in the air before the fall" (Robert Francis, "Excellence").
Walt McDonald - Advice I Wish I'd been Told
"and that is what a poet
is, children, one who creates
sacramental relationships
Kenneth Rexroth
A Letter to William Carlos Williams
What do people think so far
Don't waste your time trawling through reams of verbiage in my guest book and messages. Here it is in brief:
Daniel Fawzi Abo: I like your critiquing style, ….
Mad Moon: It's of HUGE help! Thanks so much!!
Wombling along: WOW thanks for that. I don't think anyone ever thought so deeply bout one of my poems before.
Osarkon: Woah. Lol. That's great, thanks for such an honest opinion!!
Ruby Alice: Thanks so much for your detailed critique of my poem. I read your author page--you seem to be sparing with kudos--and so your thoughts are much appreciated.
Loveboots: I came by to see if you had posted any poems, and far from being shocked by your lack of postings I am stunned by the disgraceful response you have had from so many people
Stella: and then you talk of pettiness I see from reading the comments here I am not the only one you have offended.
Whispered Love: it is cold in your neck of the woods so I will simply say welcome...
and hope that the sunshine finds its way here.
michele la pointe: hmmm, if i strived for perfection, i'd feel that nothing i wrote was worth a shit... sorry, but i disagree with your views on poetry as a whole
Zara: I just noticed a wonderful critique you offered on a poem entered in a contest I'm co-hosting as part of the group "in the burnng house".
ErraticallyPoetic: I've seen several of your critiques, and while I don't always agree with what you have to say about what others have to say, it made me wonder what you had to say for yourself. I was disappointed, until I read your reply above.
jasper3542: Thanks for the critique,
Blkwidow77: Ah Ah. That's a lie.
Blkwidow77: If you can't stand by your words... uh... what else have you got? Jelly legs... that's what... jelly legs....
DarkCharismatic: don't look down upon others so easily.
Andy Stephenson: Apparently you are no writer at all.
Melisa: As every 1 else can clearly see ur not very nice And b4 you judge over ppl y dont u write sum poetry and see what it fells like to be slatted !! ((its not very nice ))
Btw im onli 15
PennyB: you seem hung up on the verdict: awful.
missi3: If you have nothing nice to say about other ppls poetry don't say nothing at all except you write some poetry and see wht we say about it.
paper tiger: Dude - critique some of my poems...we need more people on this site like you!
moreballsplease: i am reporting you for slating every poem you have commented on, thats not coincidence its just you being nasty
Not that they are the only poets worthy of note on this site. I happened to pass a great author page recently at allpoetry.com/poets/Nocturne. Go read a simple statement of the qualities that should be absorbed by every aspiring poet, even if thereafter they decide to ignore them completely.
While you are here any comments on my poetry are welcome particularly those that are incisive. I like many am blind to my own words. I can see the flaws in the work of others but seeing my own faults is not so easy. So, if you see aspects that require improvement or attention then please point them out.
All my poems are work in progress. As Ezra Pound said, "a poem is never finished, only abandoned".
I have never written a poem in less than several hours, most take several weeks and some several years. None of these are awesome, brilliant, evocative or mind-blowing and I wish there was a way to turn off the tap that allows such cheap comments to flow.
My reason for being here is to learn from the poetry of others. I have seen and heard a small few and also seen in some techniques, lines of thought and idiosyncratic approaches to art that give me pause for thought.
Poetry is craft allied to art with associations to freedom of speech and expression.
You may believe that the craft, the technique and revision gets in the way of poetic spontaneity. Even the great poets who advocate this principle took care to achieve technical proficiency so that spontaneity is given freer rein by an instinctive appreciation of quality and beauty in form and expression.
Do not see poetry as being purely about self-expression, unless you want to remain in a very cosy world of narcissism. There is a definite craft to poetry. If you are ignorant of the craft there is a good chance that your poetry suffers. Unfortunately (or fortunately), the artistic element of poetry requires that technique and form present no restriction on the search for truth and beauty.
But ultimately truth, or the good or perfection is attained when the craft and the art are in harmony.
I am not a good poet. I am not a good critic. I seek.
If you want to seek real experience to learn from I recommend a look at Walt McDonald's essay, Advice I Wish I'd been Told for a clear explanation of common failings in poetry. It can be seen at
wwwstage.valpo.edu/english/vpr/mcdonaldessay.html
It begins:
Over the years, I've heard good advice from others; I wish they had told me sooner. Probably they did, but I didn't listen. What I'm about to say is what I constantly urge myself to do. I offer these comments to save us time, to help us strip off some ankle weights of language. The difference between second place and first place in the high jump, between the silver and the gold, is only about an inch. Ah, but "How glorious that inch / And that split-second longer in the air before the fall" (Robert Francis, "Excellence").
Walt McDonald - Advice I Wish I'd been Told
"and that is what a poet
is, children, one who creates
sacramental relationships
Kenneth Rexroth
A Letter to William Carlos Williams
What do people think so far
Don't waste your time trawling through reams of verbiage in my guest book and messages. Here it is in brief:
Daniel Fawzi Abo: I like your critiquing style, ….
Mad Moon: It's of HUGE help! Thanks so much!!
Wombling along: WOW thanks for that. I don't think anyone ever thought so deeply bout one of my poems before.
Osarkon: Woah. Lol. That's great, thanks for such an honest opinion!!
Ruby Alice: Thanks so much for your detailed critique of my poem. I read your author page--you seem to be sparing with kudos--and so your thoughts are much appreciated.
Loveboots: I came by to see if you had posted any poems, and far from being shocked by your lack of postings I am stunned by the disgraceful response you have had from so many people
Stella: and then you talk of pettiness I see from reading the comments here I am not the only one you have offended.
Whispered Love: it is cold in your neck of the woods so I will simply say welcome...
and hope that the sunshine finds its way here.
michele la pointe: hmmm, if i strived for perfection, i'd feel that nothing i wrote was worth a shit... sorry, but i disagree with your views on poetry as a whole
Zara: I just noticed a wonderful critique you offered on a poem entered in a contest I'm co-hosting as part of the group "in the burnng house".
ErraticallyPoetic: I've seen several of your critiques, and while I don't always agree with what you have to say about what others have to say, it made me wonder what you had to say for yourself. I was disappointed, until I read your reply above.
jasper3542: Thanks for the critique,
Blkwidow77: Ah Ah. That's a lie.
Blkwidow77: If you can't stand by your words... uh... what else have you got? Jelly legs... that's what... jelly legs....
DarkCharismatic: don't look down upon others so easily.
Andy Stephenson: Apparently you are no writer at all.
Melisa: As every 1 else can clearly see ur not very nice And b4 you judge over ppl y dont u write sum poetry and see what it fells like to be slatted !! ((its not very nice ))
Btw im onli 15
PennyB: you seem hung up on the verdict: awful.
missi3: If you have nothing nice to say about other ppls poetry don't say nothing at all except you write some poetry and see wht we say about it.
paper tiger: Dude - critique some of my poems...we need more people on this site like you!
moreballsplease: i am reporting you for slating every poem you have commented on, thats not coincidence its just you being nasty
- Last seen on Dec 12 2:49 PM 2005. Member since March 22, 2005.
- I'm a carnelian hope poet for 143 comments.
- I am a 49 year old guy (Cymru)
- When I'm not writing, I'm a part-time ascetic.
- I am in the groups A How to Give Constructive Criticism Group, a poetry critique
- I have 143 comments
My Poetry
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The mirror shows me where I need to go
I’m backing out, backing out for now24 lines, 2 comments, December 3, 2005. In Contemporary -
I saw for an instant, a black impingement,
a shaman’s curse of pain, fluttering13 lines, 3 comments, December 1, 2005. In Nature, Contemporary -
a solid swinging Liverpudlian firmly clasping
in erotic dance a weightless blousy blond.28 lines, 1 comment, December 1, 2005. In Contemporary
Visitor Book
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Mad Moon on March 25, 2006Ghenghis - I'm back to thank you one more time. Your Honesty in your comments on my work inspired me to learn more about what I was attempting to do. Unlike some others I have read here, I appreciate your candor. After all, how would we know to correct something if we never knew it was wrong to begin with. Not knowing anything about meter, I butchered a feeble attempt at a sonnet.
Without your honesty, this aspect of my writing would not have grown. I so appreciate it, my friend. I don't wish to be lied to about my work, just to make me feel better. In order for me to grow, I need honest feedback. You provided that for me, and are most welcome on my pages any day of the week! 
I have since taken a class on meter, and read through the wonderful, and helpful links you gave me. WOW! Then, I put it to work. Meter first, then I'll attempt the forms again. If ya get the chance, here's my secon attempt at meter. I wrote it in Iambic Pentameter. Would LOVE to hear your thoughts. Hope your having a wonderful day. Please visit soon, and often. Be well, my friend. 
allpoetry.com/Poem/1903245 "Plea for Absolution" -
Cat on January 10, 2006Just popping by to see which side of the earth you dropped off of. I hope you are well and will be able to rejoin our group soon.
Mary -
Blkwidow77 on December 14, 2005You haven't posted crap in weeks... What kind of cop out is that? Geez... What the hell are you doing over there? Sitting on your hands and playing with yourself. Were is the entry for my contest, for god's sake?
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DarkCharismatic on December 2, 2005It seems your art of choice is analysis. There is no real method, or even need for method in poetry, as far as i am concerned. It's about getting some type of feeling into words. There is no 'bad' poetry. If you think of something in forms, you will always be disappointed to some extent or another. I ahdn't planned on offending you, or even making it seem as though I was with my former comments. I merely defended my way of being. I am an artist. Perhaps not a poet, but an artist none the less. Good day, sir...
